Topic: Merit system causes more SPAM not less (Read 799 times)
I don't agree with you on the fact that the merit system is causing more spam. All you need to know is that, this forum is like a society and every society is governed by a set principles and rules. The merit system is like rule to reduce some kind of unpleasant behaviors of members and also present some kind of restriction to the forum. The forum needed this new restriction. I will advise that we accept this new system and avoid spamming.
I think need a ban for creating a new merit posts if we want to stop new spam posts. Can write on the exaple only in one merit thread.
I suppose that's why Theymos took it a step further by removing Newbie signatures entirely and demoting Jr. Members who haven't received merit. Now all those farms of Newbies and Jr. Members have no incentive to post garbage. They have no signatures.
It at least forces the costs of spamming higher. Spammers either need to buy merit -- which is in lower supply now that the initial airdrop is long over, so it should be harder to get for shitposters -- or they need to buy a Copper membership for 0.002+ BTC.
Are the costs high enough yet? Maybe not, but I think we should wait and see. In my own observation, the forum's been getting more readable now that the merit system is established. I think that trend will continue under this policy.
It at least forces the costs of spamming higher. Spammers either need to buy merit -- which is in lower supply now that the initial airdrop is long over, so it should be harder to get for shitposters -- or they need to buy a Copper membership for 0.002+ BTC.
Are the costs high enough yet? Maybe not, but I think we should wait and see. In my own observation, the forum's been getting more readable now that the merit system is established. I think that trend will continue under this policy.
There are certain threads that still are a spam fest, but there's less of them in general than before. Many potential spammers and farmers got wrecked by trying to merit their own alts or buy merit and that definitely levelled the playfield even more than the merit system itself. There was (and still is) a lot of sold accounts that were eligible for signatures and they didn't have to worry about getting merit.
The situation would be much better if somebody were to deal with all those hacked accounts that are being traded.
You are right about the merit system causing more spam in the forum and that's exactly the reason why mods implemented the 1 merit requirement to participate in the bounty, So even if you have multi-account, you still need merit to upgrade to the Jr member, I think the mod did a great job on the implementation, and i am thinking if more members upgrade to jr member and the spam continues, I see mod increasing the merit requirement further up.
We probably have hundreds of people spamming the hell out of this board with multiple accounts and the merit system does nothing to stop the spam and it may actually cause more of it.
I suppose that's why Theymos took it a step further by removing Newbie signatures entirely and demoting Jr. Members who haven't received merit. Now all those farms of Newbies and Jr. Members have no incentive to post garbage. They have no signatures.
It at least forces the costs of spamming higher. Spammers either need to buy merit -- which is in lower supply now that the initial airdrop is long over, so it should be harder to get for shitposters -- or they need to buy a Copper membership for 0.002+ BTC.
Are the costs high enough yet? Maybe not, but I think we should wait and see. In my own observation, the forum's been getting more readable now that the merit system is established. I think that trend will continue under this policy.
[ ... ]
~
~~
~
~Noted. But what I meant for that is that they're the ones who's in charge for the growth and improvement of community and forum. A gardener probably?
At some point with this new rule also affected low ranks (jr.members) which are honest but on the other hand it will be easy for them to get a merit or rank up as long they have helpful and quality posts.
i think with the new merit system, we can reduce spamer.
In the old systerm, many Jr. member joined in sig campain, and they start to spam something to get enough post to complete mission in a week, or some people try to creat so more account and they start spaming when the account go to Jr. member, but now it has reduced.
Now the people need to improve knowledge and thinking about crypto before they can publish a quality post and they can get merit. This is a forum where people discuss about bitcoin and Crypto, not spaming place.
In the old systerm, many Jr. member joined in sig campain, and they start to spam something to get enough post to complete mission in a week, or some people try to creat so more account and they start spaming when the account go to Jr. member, but now it has reduced.
Now the people need to improve knowledge and thinking about crypto before they can publish a quality post and they can get merit. This is a forum where people discuss about bitcoin and Crypto, not spaming place.
[ ... ]
Because of this new formula/pesticide, farmers (theymos and other mods) can easily remove or way of removing the pests(shitposters and account farmers) so that the tree/plant(forum) will grow and all people will benefit from it and I think it will work sooner or later.
Ok. You misuse the word farmer, you refer theymos and other mods as farmers.Because of this new formula/pesticide, farmers (theymos and other mods) can easily remove or way of removing the pests(shitposters and account farmers) so that the tree/plant(forum) will grow and all people will benefit from it and I think it will work sooner or later.
I got your point but using the word farmer here is just for people who farmed accounts. Be careful.
This is nothing new and have been discussed several times.
This fact will not make merits go away, it would most likely make other changes to be made.
Several high ranking members have already discussed some ideas in META, whihc in my mind would be a HUGE plus for forum:
This will be good for long term situation here and it should start with all the campaign managers in their respective bounties. They should be actually cooperating like we've seen some managers that didn't accept lower than member rank and the result was good besides spammers can affect the image of their icos. Let's not put everything to Theymos. This fact will not make merits go away, it would most likely make other changes to be made.
Several high ranking members have already discussed some ideas in META, whihc in my mind would be a HUGE plus for forum:
- Disable signatures for all Jr.Members who have no merit at all.
- Or disable them for good.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 4265
eXch.cx - Automatic crypto Swap Exchange.
So here is my theory.
Newbie comes onto the forum and starts snooping around because he heard about bounties. He wants to make some cash and he wants some cash right now. He starts trying to sign up and realizes he needs to be a jr member to participate. Here comes your first influx of SPAM.
We probably have hundreds of people spamming the hell out of this board with multiple accounts and the merit system does nothing to stop the spam and it may actually cause more of it.
There's some sense in your theory but don't forget the administrators of the forum are working tirelessly to implement new rules and regulations to help better the forum by eliminating spam for good and so doing will return Bitcointalk to it's pass glory.Newbie comes onto the forum and starts snooping around because he heard about bounties. He wants to make some cash and he wants some cash right now. He starts trying to sign up and realizes he needs to be a jr member to participate. Here comes your first influx of SPAM.
We probably have hundreds of people spamming the hell out of this board with multiple accounts and the merit system does nothing to stop the spam and it may actually cause more of it.
The merit system was introduced to reduce spam and from the stats so far it has. More additional rules will follow sooner.
This scenario is the reality I don't have any proofs but I know it is happening with or without the merit system or the new rule. For couple of months I always visit Meta to read but I can't stop myself posting this because it is being flooded AGAIN with this "I am a jr.member and got demoted to newbie thing"(1st when merit system was implemented).
Because of this new formula/pesticide, farmers (theymos and other mods) can easily remove or way of removing the pests(shitposters and account farmers) so that the tree/plant(forum) will grow and all people will benefit from it and I think it will work sooner or later.
Because of this new formula/pesticide, farmers (theymos and other mods) can easily remove or way of removing the pests(shitposters and account farmers) so that the tree/plant(forum) will grow and all people will benefit from it and I think it will work sooner or later.
So here is my theory.
Newbie comes onto the forum and starts snooping around because he heard about bounties. He wants to make some cash and he wants some cash right now. He starts trying to sign up and realizes he needs to be a jr member to participate. Here comes your first influx of SPAM.
We are now a jr member. Things are looking good. You sign up for your first signature campaign. Earning time is right around the corner. A few weeks in you realize the Hero members are getting massive stakes and by the end of the campaign they will get all the rewards. You think to hell with this I'm gonna rank up. Now the SPAM really starts flying.
About a day or two into this the new user starts to realize something isn't correct. Why am I not ranking up. This is where he learns about the merit system. The new user has a bad day as he realizes he has been locked out of this game. The game has been centralized by the upper members.
The new user quits. He says fuck this noise I'm out.
A day later he realizes why he came here in the first place. He needs damn money. So the light bulb goes off. Well if a hero member gets 8 stake and a jr member gets 1 there is only one thing left to do if I'm to make it as a bounty hunter. Multiple accounts!
We probably have hundreds of people spamming the hell out of this board with multiple accounts and the merit system does nothing to stop the spam and it may actually cause more of it.
Unintended consequences?
What do you guys think?
Newbie comes onto the forum and starts snooping around because he heard about bounties. He wants to make some cash and he wants some cash right now. He starts trying to sign up and realizes he needs to be a jr member to participate. Here comes your first influx of SPAM.
We are now a jr member. Things are looking good. You sign up for your first signature campaign. Earning time is right around the corner. A few weeks in you realize the Hero members are getting massive stakes and by the end of the campaign they will get all the rewards. You think to hell with this I'm gonna rank up. Now the SPAM really starts flying.
About a day or two into this the new user starts to realize something isn't correct. Why am I not ranking up. This is where he learns about the merit system. The new user has a bad day as he realizes he has been locked out of this game. The game has been centralized by the upper members.
The new user quits. He says fuck this noise I'm out.
A day later he realizes why he came here in the first place. He needs damn money. So the light bulb goes off. Well if a hero member gets 8 stake and a jr member gets 1 there is only one thing left to do if I'm to make it as a bounty hunter. Multiple accounts!
We probably have hundreds of people spamming the hell out of this board with multiple accounts and the merit system does nothing to stop the spam and it may actually cause more of it.
Unintended consequences?
What do you guys think?
Before the Merit system spam in the forum was already spinning out of control, and since the spammers were ranking up with all their alts at some point they would have totally fucked up the whole forum. It may be true that some new sort of spam may have been caused by the Merit system, but other sorts of spam has surely been limited. With the merit system, spammers - at least the new spammers - will be confined at the lowest ranks. Moreover, with the latest change - 1 merit requirement for being a Junior Memner - all those new spammers will never rise above the level of Newbie, which could demotivate them from continuing to spam since as a Newbie you cannot earn money with Bounty campaigns.
What's wrong with a man having a lot of bounty reports in history? If he writes some useful post that you like, you still won't let him merit because there are a lot of bounty reports in his message history?
I'm free to use my merits in any damn way I feel like... yougottaproblemwiththat?
Since you asked nicely this go-around, the people here with a lot of bounty reports in their post history tend to see the forum as a job - a place where they do their assigned tasks and get rewarded with currency - whereas those of us without bounty reports see the forum as a place to converse with like-minded
It really is as simple as that.
I generally don't give out merits to anyone who has a lot of bounty and airdrop reports in their history, but the OP seems to be making an effort to improve his post quality and people have been especially generous to me the last few days as I reached and crossed 100 merits so I'm spreading the love around.
However, if the OP goes back to his shameful, bounty-loving ways then you can bet I won't make the same mistake twice.
What's wrong with a man having a lot of bounty reports in history? If he writes some useful post that you like, you still won't let him merit because there are a lot of bounty reports in his message history?However, if the OP goes back to his shameful, bounty-loving ways then you can bet I won't make the same mistake twice.
I'm free to use my merits in any damn way I feel like... yougottaproblemwiththat?
...
People who give merit away look for what users are posting.
...
People who give merit away look for what users are posting.
...
You're confusing purpose of merits with trust system. The former is related only to the post quality and member's ability of constructive posting and/or positive contribution to the forum - not as a judgement of his ethics.
If you think what he's doing is wrong - leave him a red trust rating.
Unintended consequences?
What do you guys think?
Merit system producing spam? I think not. There is spam everywhere and there will ever be. People are so creative enough to produce spams without being caught just in order for them to fulfill their bounty requirements.
On another note, I have a theory that the merit system is not reducing the spam users significantly (meaning much less that what we expect). I just believe that the spam are being transferred from one board to another. How? just now look at the Meta Board and you will see that people from the other boards before are going here because this board has a higher chance to get merit than any other board. Hence, this board attract more users, meaning attract more spam posts.
I think there are just not enough people giving merit away. The merit system has matured and users are a lot more "stingy" than before. I think it's important to reward the small number of good users on the forum, so as to dilute the spammers and hopefully combat them. Meanwhile, a lot of the high ranking members now would not rank up so easily if they were in a position to start over. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the quality of their posts, I'm talking about the amount given out. I do realise keeping track of all the posts and quality users is hard work and I thank the active merit contributors.
A nice analysis was given here by user DdmrDdmr: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smerit-participants-a-worrying-descending-trend-5029372
Below is a graph from his thread showing merit awarded:
Having said that, I do believe ranks shouldn't be easily obtained and that the merit system is a great idea, just that the implementation is not fully there yet. In the long run, I'll think we'll regard it as a positive addition to the board.
A nice analysis was given here by user DdmrDdmr: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smerit-participants-a-worrying-descending-trend-5029372
Below is a graph from his thread showing merit awarded:
Having said that, I do believe ranks shouldn't be easily obtained and that the merit system is a great idea, just that the implementation is not fully there yet. In the long run, I'll think we'll regard it as a positive addition to the board.
People who give merit away look for what users are posting.
Hey, I'm here to offer you the best Twitter service you've seen yet. With start times from instant up to 24h, you can rest assured that your order will be treated with the utmost care. Currently, everyone is struggling to provide Twitter followers, but I'm here to provide 100% guaranteed service. All orders are drip-feed to simulate real human behavior and to provide the best quality.
https://archive.fo/jxrFt
Sorry but someone who sells fake twitter followers ain't gonna put them on my merry merit list.
Several high ranking members have already discussed some ideas in META, whihc in my mind would be a HUGE plus for forum:
...
- Disable signatures for all Jr.Members who have no merit at all.
As one man once said - Ask and you shall receive
Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements
Theymos: "Due to excessive garbage-posting, you now need 1 merit to be a Jr Member. All existing Jr Members who didn't meet the requirement were demoted. Also, newbies can no longer set any signature or personal text."
Also, there are 36 new merit sources.
I don't agree with you.I have seen more spam and quality less post in forum before introduction of Merit system.It definitely reduced spam posting.If you think from positive perspective then merit system encourage people to make quality post.And lastly people who spammed before are also spamming now with multiple accounts.Merit system is only here for reduction of these.
Eight months after the start day of merit system and new rank requirements, I have not seen reasonable reasons to keep complaining about these twos, which obviously impressively affected most of forum users.
Personally, the forum has changed positively due to huge impacts of merit system and new rank requirements.
New comers will keep joining the forum, which in turn equals to new spammers. Not all of them will be spammers, but I believe that new spammers will join the forum for sure.
The fact is spammers will be kept at lower ranks due to merit system and new rank requirements.
Let's take it easy, let's spammers do their works (non-sense ones).
Constructive users, and someone who would like to change to be a better member of the forum will change the way they posting and contributing to forum discussions.
Personally, the forum has changed positively due to huge impacts of merit system and new rank requirements.
New comers will keep joining the forum, which in turn equals to new spammers. Not all of them will be spammers, but I believe that new spammers will join the forum for sure.
The fact is spammers will be kept at lower ranks due to merit system and new rank requirements.
Let's take it easy, let's spammers do their works (non-sense ones).
Constructive users, and someone who would like to change to be a better member of the forum will change the way they posting and contributing to forum discussions.
I think there are just not enough people giving merit away. The merit system has matured and users are a lot more "stingy" than before. I think it's important to reward the small number of good users on the forum, so as to dilute the spammers and hopefully combat them. Meanwhile, a lot of the high ranking members now would not rank up so easily if they were in a position to start over. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the quality of their posts, I'm talking about the amount given out. I do realise keeping track of all the posts and quality users is hard work and I thank the active merit contributors.
A nice analysis was given here by user DdmrDdmr: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smerit-participants-a-worrying-descending-trend-5029372
Below is a graph from his thread showing merit awarded:
Having said that, I do believe ranks shouldn't be easily obtained and that the merit system is a great idea, just that the implementation is not fully there yet. In the long run, I'll think we'll regard it as a positive addition to the board.
A nice analysis was given here by user DdmrDdmr: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smerit-participants-a-worrying-descending-trend-5029372
Below is a graph from his thread showing merit awarded:
Having said that, I do believe ranks shouldn't be easily obtained and that the merit system is a great idea, just that the implementation is not fully there yet. In the long run, I'll think we'll regard it as a positive addition to the board.
Jump to: