[MERIT][NSFN] We're destroying more merits than we're sending. Like, way more. - page 4.

hilariousetc

legendary

Activity: 2828

Merit: 3038

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:22:15 PM

NSFN stands for "not safe for newbies". If you're a newbie looking to earn your first merit this topic may elevate your blood pressure.

According to merit stats we have sent ~22 thousand merits in the last 30 days.

According to ban and nuke stats ~24.5 thousand merits have been "destroyed" due to permanent bans in the last ~2 weeks^*:

Ironically half of the bans probably came from being exposed due to them meriting their own alts. We should rename merits as 'alt' or "friend" tokens.

I love how this guy excitedly boasted in Meta about getting merits, then as soon as I brought up the likelihood of him meriting his alts he quickly moved it to Off Topic and locked it Grin

. I think that tells you all you need to know.

Quote from: Welsh on October 02, 2018, 04:03:15 PM

Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on October 02, 2018, 03:56:05 PM

Waste, but that's why it's created, to point out the quality poster and those abusing the system.
If you check for plagiarism before you give merit, probably big part of those wasted by mistake will be saved.

Yeah, I would advise anyone to do this if you have the time. I tend to dedicate a certain amount of time now to giving merits when I know I have time to check for plagiarism or not strictly plagiarism, but something that has been repeated to death or has been discussed recently. A common trend among newbies is to back a few pages, and just regurgitate a good reply hoping for some merit.

I think this is why we should up the requirement to ten before they can have a signature because then giving out one bad merit here and there won't be such an issue. It's such a hassle having to google people's posts just to see if they're plagiarised, and if they're text-spun then you likely won't get a hit either. When one merit is all you need it's like Christmas come early for a spammer and you can get one all too easily and in numerous nefarious ways. Let's see them try to get ten on their dozens of alt accounts. It would make abuse much less likely to happen and also make it much easier to spot. One solitary merit will fly under the radar a lot of the time.

coin8coin8

member

Activity: 168

Merit: 47

False Moon

I noticed that many meirt abusers are deleting some of their suspicious posts.
If Merit is deleted along with the deletion of the post, I believe this will be a very interesting thing.
Some merit abusers will delete posts in order to eliminate the evidence, but they have to lose the merit, which will be a very difficult choice for them.

The Cryptovator

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 2196

Signature space for rent

Quote from: theymos on October 02, 2018, 05:17:54 PM

16,224 sMerit is held by autobanned users (including the initial sMerit).

I believe those account are ban they are also merit abuser. Especially newbie and Jr. Members. Because a quality poster shouldn't ban. Those are baned obviously they are connected with corruption somehow. So it's not bad corrupted and abuser got ban. Never mind few merit are decay, they didn't used their smerit on good post. Here is merit source to recover it. I think smerit limit should increase for merit source.

vit05

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 526

Quote from: theymos on October 02, 2018, 05:17:54 PM

16,224 sMerit is held by autobanned users (including the initial sMerit).

" The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. "

Steamtyme

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 2036

Quote from: ?? on ??

They went down swinging.
I think that can be compensated for by creating more smerits for merit sources. Or increasing the number.

And if possible their smerits can be decayed. They might need the merits to feel good. And fair enough, they earned them, at least, some of them did.

I dont really understand the second part of what you were saying.

theymos did just ad a bunch of merit sources something like 30, with a lower amount of smerit to distribute iirc.

Honestly I dont see this as a worrying trend. It mostly points to the fact that a lot of people giant take the merit system (or the forum rules) seriously.

The sad part is that most people who see the value in the merit system already try to distribute them ad intended. The ones who are trading/selling/ farming will just continue to ad to the inferno.

Lafu

legendary

Activity: 3108

Merit: 3199

Maybe see the other side !
With this all , we have found a lot of abuser and spam shitposter and plagiarism copy/paste Users !
For that is what good and the banned one accounts burn too !

Short Forum cleaning ! Cheesy

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

16,224 sMerit is held by autobanned users (including the initial sMerit).

Marcel555

jr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 4

Most of them woupdnbe have been banned for engaging in unethical behaviour, in an attempt to rank up.
I've always wondered, could we have a scenario where only merit sources have smerits to give out?
If other users exhaust theirs, and it is prone to diminish, as each merit creates half it's value in smerits.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: LoyceV on October 02, 2018, 04:38:09 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:30:42 PM

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still - what a waste. I wonder how much of that 600k airdrop has already been destroyed this way.

The 600k was sMerit, not Merit. I don't know how many Merits were airdropped.

Anyway, this is good news, we get rid of bad users and hopefully have them be replaced by good users.

You're right, and I should have known that because...

Quote from: theymos on January 25, 2018, 05:55:22 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 25, 2018, 03:20:22 PM

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topsend

In less than a day we already sent more sMerits (11k+) than sources will gain in a month (~8k). Anyone knows how many sMerits have been distributed to existing members?

About 600k.

So the number of merits would have been ~3-4 million - the ratio of sMerits/merits was 1/5 or less depending on rank and activity IIRC.

Vod probably knows the exact number.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:30:42 PM

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still - what a waste. I wonder how much of that 600k airdrop has already been destroyed this way.

The 600k was sMerit, not Merit. I don't know how many Merits were airdropped.

Anyway, this is good news, we get rid of bad users and hopefully have them be replaced by good users.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on October 02, 2018, 03:51:46 PM

So, we have actually only destroyed about 1.2k earned merit. Yes, that's a lot of airdropped merit to lose, but honestly, I don't see that as a problem if the users are deserving of their ban.

Just to clarify - despite the sensationalist headline I don't think that's a problem at all. I just would have expected this to have happened a long time ago (i.e. ban-deserving airdropped merits getting banned out) but apparently this is still a thing 8 months in. And after all this whining about how hard it is to earn merits you'd think they would be trying harder to hold on to high-ranked accounts.

Quote from: eddie13 on October 02, 2018, 03:55:18 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on October 02, 2018, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:30:42 PM

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still

So taking your numbers, and saying that airdropped merits were 10/100/250/500/1000 for ranks Member through Legendary, the amount of airdropped merit destroyed is

Code:

(10*150)+(100*93)+(250*30)+(500*8)+(1000*1) = 23300

So, we have actually only destroyed about 1.2k earned merit. Yes, that's a lot of airdropped merit to lose, but honestly, I don't see that as a problem if the users are deserving of their ban.

Is this counting the "airdropped" merits like the 500 I started for being a hero, or just "airdropped" smerits that were sent to these accounts?

I think this data would be most useful if it didn't count the accounts base merits they started with..

The 23300 is airdropped merits (not sMerits) like your 500. The other 1.2k is earned merits since the introduction of the merit system. There is no easy way to find out how many sMerits everyone had at the time of their ban, if that's what you're after.

|Admiral|

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 258

It is a great statistics from where we can see the statistics, gift of total merit and also total destroyed merit. Still now it is good that many merit wasted for banned user. It is necessary and I think it is a note for all that earning merit is not all. To keep your account is more important than earning merit. Few people may earn merit by unfair means but there will be no benefit in the long run.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3290

Merit: 4114

Quote from: TheBeardedBaby on October 02, 2018, 03:56:05 PM

Waste, but that's why it's created, to point out the quality poster and those abusing the system.
If you check for plagiarism before you give merit, probably big part of those wasted by mistake will be saved.

Yeah, I would advise anyone to do this if you have the time. I tend to dedicate a certain amount of time now to giving merits when I know I have time to check for plagiarism or not strictly plagiarism, but something that has been repeated to death or has been discussed recently. A common trend among newbies is to back a few pages, and just regurgitate a good reply hoping for some merit.

TheBeardedBaby

legendary

Activity: 2240

Merit: 3150

₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(

Waste, but that's why it's created, to point out the quality poster and those abusing the system.
If you check for plagiarism before you give merit, probably big part of those wasted by mistake will be saved.

eddie13

legendary

Activity: 2296

Merit: 2262

BTC or BUST

Is that a lot of bans recently or just a normal about?

Not only merits destroyed but accounts..

93 Full Member
30 Sr. Member
8 Hero Member
1 Legendary

Are we replenishing ranked accounts at this rate or are upstanding accounts going to become as rare as merits?
+ all the accounts that have been scammer tagged in the same period, I doubt they are keeping up..

People have been talking about adding more ranks above legendary for a long time, this is going to solve that too..
They will be the same old ranks but get increasingly rarer and with a much higher barrier to entry..
Sig campaign pay will go up for those who deserve the privilege..

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on October 02, 2018, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:30:42 PM

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still

So taking your numbers, and saying that airdropped merits were 10/100/250/500/1000 for ranks Member through Legendary, the amount of airdropped merit destroyed is

Code:

(10*150)+(100*93)+(250*30)+(500*8)+(1000*1) = 23300

So, we have actually only destroyed about 1.2k earned merit. Yes, that's a lot of airdropped merit to lose, but honestly, I don't see that as a problem if the users are deserving of their ban.

Is this counting the "airdropped" merits like the 500 I started for being a hero, or just "airdropped" smerits that were sent to these accounts?

I think this data would be most useful if it didn't count the accounts base merits they started with..

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18706

Quote from: suchmoon on October 02, 2018, 03:30:42 PM

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still

So taking your numbers, and saying that airdropped merits were 10/100/250/500/1000 for ranks Member through Legendary, the amount of airdropped merit destroyed is

Code:

(10*150)+(100*93)+(250*30)+(500*8)+(1000*1) = 23300

So, we have actually only destroyed about 1.2k earned merit. Yes, that's a lot of airdropped merit to lose, but honestly, I don't see that as a problem if the users are deserving of their ban.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Piggy on October 02, 2018, 03:26:21 PM

Great part of these merit where never going to be given to legit users in the first place, but were mainly used for alts, so maybe is not as bad as it looks.

Well, most of it is airdrop too but still - what a waste. I wonder how much of ~~that 600k~~ (edit: wrong) airdrop has already been destroyed this way. 8 months x 50k per month would be 400k, unless the last two weeks was an anomaly of some sort.

Piggy

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1416

Great part of these merit were never going to be given to legit users in the first place, but were mainly used for alts, so maybe is not as bad as it looks.

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

NSFN stands for "not safe for newbies". If you're a newbie looking to earn your first merit this topic may elevate your blood pressure.

According to merit stats we have sent ~23 thousand merits in the last 30 days.

According to ban and nuke stats ~61 thousand merits have been "destroyed" due to permanent bans in the last ~3 weeks^*:

Code:


4228 permanent bans (including nukes):
     2545 Newbie
      764 Brand new (nukes I'm assuming)
      353 Member
      236 Jr. Member
      216 Full Member
       70 Sr. Member
       24 Hero Member
       16 Copper Member
        4 Legendary

60954 merits destroyed:
       14 merits per user on average
      176 single-merit users banned

Data from a week ago, i.e. for a 2-week period:

Code:


1791 permanent bans (including nukes):
     786 Newbie
     576 Brand new (nukes I'm assuming)
     150 Member
     141 Jr. Member
      93 Full Member
      30 Sr. Member
       8 Hero Member
       6 Copper Member
       1 Legendary

24564 merits destroyed:
       14 merits per user on average
      106 single-merit users banned

I think this means we will have all merited users banned eventually and only zero-merit users will be roaming the post-apocalyptic ruins of Bitcointalk.

^* modlog doesn't have timestamps but I've been scraping it for about 2 weeks and it seems to go back for another week. This does not account for users that may have been unbanned but I would expect that number to be negligible.

Topic: [MERIT][NSFN] We're destroying more merits than we're sending. Like, way more. - page 4. (Read 2274 times)