Merits offered as a prize | Bitcointalksearch.org

-CryptoViking-

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Activity: 378

Merit: 335

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 27, 2020, 08:02:20 AM

I don't see any reason and opening new topic for something like this.
Official rules does not say anything preventing users to send merits to anyone, except maybe in cases of merit abuse or merit trading (that can earn you a flag)
In fact, we have small fun topic in our local board for predicting correct price of Bitcoin on specific date.
I will reward extra merit if someone make correct prediction, and I hope I will not be burned like a witch(er) for this Tongue

I think our thread is safe when it comes to things like this, since it requires some knowledge research and skill. Some charting and looking at various indicators or data to try to predict the correct price of BTC on a specific date and time, plus the poster that writes a good analysis or valuable opinion is rewarded extra merit.

It is crypto related, requires dedication, activates the community and adds value to the forum itself. Based on this I think we are more then good when it come to our summer fun topic.

Bagaji

sr. member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 291

Quote from: Pffrt on August 21, 2020, 08:18:51 AM

I think merit as a reward for prediction is a very wrong approach. It should not be given for such purpose, only good quality post should be given merits. However, I want to link you this thread by DTalk- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.53624239
He planned to share merit for people who can write quality post on a given topic which was also a form of rewards. You can get some good discussion from that.

What then will you people say of those that do merit signature campaign applications. I have seen where a post like "Zzzzzzzzz" received 10 merit and no one said anything.
If you guys don't have anything meaningful to say I don't think it will be out of place to keep quiet and say nothing.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

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I understand theymos is not too keen on rigorous rules as such but do you think if there was enough consensus on this issue between a sizeable number of members then it would carry more weight? If theymos wants to leave feedback and merits largely unmoderated then maybe even with consensus it would not make much difference.

Quote from: hilariousetc on August 28, 2020, 05:08:27 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 27, 2020, 01:54:25 PM

If there are no official rules regarding merits or their sending of - then it means it is open to interpretation. Surely it would have been better to have had a system with point-specific rules in place as it would have clearly defined what was allowed and what was not. Maybe this will change in future.

You can ask theymos about it but from comments he's made in the past he isn't a big fan of specific set-in-stone rules and even the 'rules' thread here is unofficial and not sanctioned by him, considered more of a guide if anything. Just like feedback or scams they're left up to users to decide on how to police and from what I recall of his previous comments on merit they're to be largely unmoderated and left up to users to decide on how they issue then.Maybe you can create a thread and get community input on what they should and shouldn't be given for but I'd just say take potential abuse of them on a case by base basis like this situation.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Quote from: JollyGood on August 21, 2020, 03:48:58 PM

Still no official clarification about this.

Is the distributing of merits in this manner a violation or not?

This should be a violation and shouldn't be encouraged from my point of view. The quiz, giveaway or other activities in the past that have resulted to merited been used as a means of awarding the participants always had a way of impacting the forum but this particular cases isn't adding any value to the community instead it brings about more promotion to the project since participants hoping to gain some merit from them who likely participating in their contest.

Using merit simple means you're monetizing it as it's been given monetary value instead something with actually monetary value like BTC, etc. This just doesn't seem right, it should be stopped.

jademaxsuy

full member

Activity: 924

Merit: 221

Quote from: mole0815 on August 21, 2020, 08:12:47 AM

I haven't given it any more thought. Since there have been such threads/raffles/actions several times and nobody ever had a problem with it, it was tolerated until now.

If this is a violation of rules we can of course change that.

If not I would leave it as it is

Very supportive, this is the kind of user that really care for his local board. I am not sure but there is not rulings here regarding on merits giveaway. It was not mentio that it is not allowed but merits is intended to give for users that are helpful.

So, what benefit that the organizer will get through this activity? I guess it is piblicity. By helping them out in their publicity they reward merit for the users who participated I guess it is still classified as helping as to what merit is intended to be given.

Anyway, if this is not allowed then no choice for the mods but to take action on this activity.

hilariousetc

legendary

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Quote from: JollyGood on August 27, 2020, 01:54:25 PM

If there are no official rules regarding merits or their sending of - then it means it is open to interpretation. Surely it would have been better to have had a system with point-specific rules in place as it would have clearly defined what was allowed and what was not. Maybe this will change in future.

You can ask theymos about it but from comments he's made in the past he isn't a big fan of specific set-in-stone rules and even the 'rules' thread here is unofficial and not sanctioned by him, considered more of a guide if anything. Just like feedback or scams they're left up to users to decide on how to police and from what I recall of his previous comments on merit they're to be largely unmoderated and left up to users to decide on how they issue then.Maybe you can create a thread and get community input on what they should and shouldn't be given for but I'd just say take potential abuse of them on a case by base basis like this situation.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

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If there are no official rules regarding merits or their sending of - then it means it is open to interpretation. Surely it would have been better to have had a system with point-specific rules in place as it would have clearly defined what was allowed and what was not. Maybe this will change in future.

Quote from: hilariousetc on August 27, 2020, 05:30:43 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 21, 2020, 03:48:58 PM

Still no official clarification about this.

Is the distributing of merits in this manner a violation or not?

There aren't really any official rules regarding merit or the sending of it, much like the feedback system it's left up to the community to decide what is right or wrong. Giving merit away like this should probably be frowned upon or at least discouraged though. I've seen a couple of instances in the past where merit has been used as some sort of prize for winning something and I don't think people should be doing that personally. Giving merits away as a prize or reward for getting a bet right shouldn't really be done, but at the same time I don't think giving merit to a post that posted a winning bet would be inherently bad as long as it was worthy of being merited, but specifically offering merits for this is going to encourage users to bet with them. As others have said, worse posts are merited. I even saw OgNasty merit a your favourite fruit thread which is just another shit thread that shouldn't be merited but people can merit whatever they feel is deserving at the end of the day: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/your-favorite-fruit-5265481

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

I don't see any reason and opening new topic for something like this.
Official rules does not say anything preventing users to send merits to anyone, except maybe in cases of merit abuse or merit trading (that can earn you a flag)
In fact, we have small fun topic in our local board for predicting correct price of Bitcoin on specific date.
I will reward extra merit if someone make correct prediction, and I hope I will not be burned like a witch(er) for this Tongue

hilariousetc

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 3061

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Quote from: JollyGood on August 21, 2020, 03:48:58 PM

Still no official clarification about this.

Is the distributing of merits in this manner a violation or not?

There aren't really any official rules regarding merit or the sending of it, much like the feedback system it's left up to the community to decide what is right or wrong. Giving merit away like this should probably be frowned upon or at least discouraged though. I've seen a couple of instances in the past where merit has been used as some sort of prize for winning something and I don't think people should be doing that personally. Giving merits away as a prize or reward for getting a bet right shouldn't really be done, but at the same time I don't think giving merit to a post that posted a winning bet would be inherently bad as long as it was worthy of being merited, but specifically offering merits for this is going to encourage users to bet with them. As others have said, worse posts are merited. I even saw OgNasty merit a your favourite fruit thread which is just another shit thread that shouldn't be merited but people can merit whatever they feel is deserving at the end of the day: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/your-favorite-fruit-5265481

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

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Quote from: Bitcoinsummoner on August 26, 2020, 05:47:20 PM

Quote from: nutildah on August 21, 2020, 10:40:05 PM

This is where I draw the line. Sales or trade of merit should be discouraged.

If trading merit is discouraged and it may turn into negative trust, why not for giving as award for calling correct roll? I think it is same as merit trading because the prize if offered for something which should be awarded by dollar. That means merit is being used as alternative of the dollar.

Will you stop with that nonsense. Buying merit is wrong, you're supposed to earn merit. Sending merit for a good post is not wrong, even if that post can earn money too. You have a paid signature - does that make you ineligible for merits?

Bitcoinsummoner

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Quote from: nutildah on August 21, 2020, 10:40:05 PM

This is where I draw the line. Sales or trade of merit should be discouraged.

If trading merit is discouraged and it may turn into negative trust, why not for giving as award for calling correct roll? I think it is same as merit trading because the prize if offered for something which should be awarded by dollar. That means merit is being used as alternative of the dollar.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on August 22, 2020, 02:13:51 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on August 22, 2020, 12:11:45 PM

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

No, there are no specific rules. Seems moderators have mixed opinions about this case. So, only admin knows that. I am assuming admin has read that thread and since he had not left any opinion, we can't call it as abuse. But for me, this isn't correct use of merit, I don't think its something punishable by the way. I will discourage to use merit as a prize.

It definitely sounds like using merits being offered as prizes defeats the object why merits were introduced in the first place.

Quote from: TheUltraElite on August 23, 2020, 01:44:37 AM

@JollyGood

There is not fixed/offical rule regarding the giving of merits for posts which can be applied to this case.

Since the awarding of merits is completely subjective, people are free to merit whatever they wish to. As per theymos' words, merits are to given to posts that are worthy of being recognized (rephrased statement). However you cannot be punished for giving someone merits on a post that someone feels as not merit-worthy.

Now there are certain mega-threads where such merit distribution among regular posters there happen but I dont think this is something to be concerned.

Well if there is no such rule about merit abuse then I guess there is no way to define it.

Is there a clear definition of what merit abuse actually is?

TheUltraElite

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1253

So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

@JollyGood

There is not fixed/offical rule regarding the giving of merits for posts which can be applied to this case.

Since the awarding of merits is completely subjective, people are free to merit whatever they wish to. As per theymos' words, merits are to given to posts that are worthy of being recognized (rephrased statement). However you cannot be punished for giving someone merits on a post that someone feels as not merit-worthy.

Now there are certain mega-threads where such merit distribution among regular posters there happen but I dont think this is something to be concerned.

1miau

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I highly doubt that the Merit "offered as a price" in our prediction game would have ended for a prediction like

Quote from: suchmoon on August 21, 2020, 12:50:41 PM

Personally I don't see a problem awarding merits for participating in a skill-based gamble (as opposed to e.g. merely rolling a dice) but as you can see there's plenty of folks willing to burn you at the stake for this so you might want to remove that merit offer and just reward the merits as you see fit.

This. I would also say, that in some situations it is not fraudulent if someone makes a Bitcoin price prediction and receives Merit for it (later, when it turned out to be a very impressive prediction) but it is also depending on the number of Merit sent for that post.

The Cryptovator

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Quote from: JollyGood on August 22, 2020, 12:11:45 PM

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

No, there are no specific rules. Seems moderators have mixed opinions about this case. So, only admin knows that. I am assuming admin has read that thread and since he had not left any opinion, we can't call it as abuse. But for me, this isn't correct use of merit, I don't think its something punishable by the way. I will discourage to use merit as a prize.

JollyGood

legendary

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I have to say you are making the obvious point. If merits are given away as prizes they lose their significance and importance, it simply defeats the object of what merits are intended for.

What are the exact rules about using merits as give away prizes?

Quote from: iamsheikhadil on August 22, 2020, 02:02:44 AM

Lol, that's funny. That's opposing what merits was supposed to be. A shout out can be given as a prize. Or even some bitcoins. Or any physical gifts as well. But merits? Merits should be earnt, not getting as gift. In this way, merits would just lose its purpose and will become some sort of currency within the bitcointalk community to exchange services and products lmao.

suchmoon

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Quote from: adaseb on August 22, 2020, 10:43:34 AM

I've seen this also however most of the merits that I give or that I've gotten is when you took the time to help some poster out. Usually in the mining section people got problems with their rigs, or setting up their rigs or how to buy the right parts. If there is some poster who takes his time to write a detailed post usually he is rewarded with merits.

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

This seemingly "random" thing is what's great about merit system. It's not based on one person's opinion of what constitutes a good post. Sure some merits may be given for stuff that is not very appealing to most people but that's perfectly fine. If that's all someone posts and gets merits for - they won't get many, reflecting their overall contribution to the forum. If someone gets 20 merits for a soccer contest but is otherwise a vile shitposter - they won't get far in ranking up etc.

Quote from: nutildah on August 21, 2020, 10:40:05 PM

Merits are given away for much stupider reasons on a daily basis.

You shouldn't care. It's not hurting anybody.

This thread made me worried that I got drunk and stumbled into the time machine again. We're still trying to micromanage merits like it's 2018.

Upgrade00

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Quote from: adaseb on August 22, 2020, 10:43:34 AM

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

It all depends on the context and the point of view of the one who is awarding them. A sentence can be short, but helpful to those reading it.
A reply could also give a good laugh to a couple of members and rather than dropping an off topic reply like 'LOL' or '+1', which will likely get deleted, they use a merit to recognize the post, which was not technically helpful to most other readers.
Users also merit posts they do not agree with.

A bulk of merit transactions is based off quality that is visible to most, so a little personal indulgence once in a while is not really a problem.

adaseb

legendary

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on August 21, 2020, 01:39:42 PM

During my time on the forum I have seen merits awarded in a variety of ways, some which were completely rational and others which were quite bizzare to me, this ranges from give aways to newbies, merit for gifs and some other sort of give away for unsavoury comments on CSW. I had my personal opinion on them, but they were not my merits and I couldn't dictate how they could be given. I would only consider an intervention when it was unethical, like merit sales or using it to incentivise posting in an ANN thread, sort of like paid bumps. In these cases the trust system which is equally unregulated by the forum could be used to check it.

Except in cases of extreme abuse, I would rather not scrutinize merit giving as everyone has diverse opinions on what they think is deserving of it.

I've seen this also however most of the merits that I give or that I've gotten is when you took the time to help some poster out. Usually in the mining section people got problems with their rigs, or setting up their rigs or how to buy the right parts. If there is some poster who takes his time to write a detailed post usually he is rewarded with merits.

So basically if you put in effort you get awarded however there are times when they are given away randomly sometimes. Someone writes a small sentence and its actually meritted. Very puzzling.

iamsheikhadil

full member

Activity: 1022

Merit: 133

Lol, that's funny. That's opposing what merits was supposed to be. A shout out can be given as a prize. Or even some bitcoins. Or any physical gifts as well. But merits? Merits should be earnt, not getting as gift. In this way, merits would just lose its purpose and will become some sort of currency within the bitcointalk community to exchange services and products lmao.

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