Pages:
Author

Topic: MicroStrategy Buys $250M in Bitcoin, Calling the Crypto ‘Superior to Cash’ - page 40. (Read 14269 times)

legendary
Activity: 3710
Merit: 10196
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
P.S: I will still HODL BTC until 1 sat is equal to $1mil... Tongue Grin

Of course, seems a bit much from my perspective, but I have already said my piece about that way of framing the matter. 

By the way, I do understand that there are some folks who believe it might be better to never sell their BTC and to engage in various kinds of usage of BTC as collateral, and in principle, I don't have too many problem with such ideas, even though hopefully people are considering the extent that they might engage in some services that put their BTC too much at risk in terms of third party risk blah blah blah.. and there may be more prudent practices to sell a bit of BTC.. depending on personal circumstances rather than engaging in some of the bullshit (and possible scams) collateral arrangements.

I'm not in favor of using BTC as collateral for any kind/ type of third-party services because of the risks involved, which in some cases are huge (even if ppl don't realize them).

Well then, I am glad that you were not referring to that kind of thing because there has been a lot of hype about those various kinds of bullshit products, even in the bitcoin space, and it seems to me that one of the aspects about bitcoin is that it was already designed in such a way that it is quite likely to appreciate in value in comparison to other kinds of assets whether we are referring to fiat or possibly various kinds of harder assets that exist.

So, if you establish a decent enough BTC stash, and maybe in 5, 10 or 20 years, 1 BTC will be considered as a sufficient enough stash (even some people may already consider 1 BTC to be a sufficient enough stash).... Anyhow, if your BTC stash is sufficient, then there might not really be much if any problem for a lot of folks to shave off a bit of it here and there along the way, especially if they are running out of cash flow in other kinds of cash that they might choose to liquidate first... but sure, some people might already have sufficient amounts of cashflow and assets that they can draw on to cash out those inferior assets before even touching their BTC stash, and I understand those kinds of motivations if you are having considerations in that direction, condoras.


Neither I'm the type of guy who will hodl BTC just to hold them and make some kind of show-off.

Seems more practical, from my point of view, to manage your stash a bit better, which would include shaving off some.. but I understand that opinions are going to differ in this regard.. and surely, selling less BTC seems to be more justifiable if you continue to have a certain amount of assurance of ongoing fiat cash flow or the value of other assets continue to flow to you which causes you little to no problems in being able to assure whatever standard of living that you expect to carry out currently and in future years.

I trade every day in more than 4 exchanges regularly for the last 3-4 years now, so "selling" and "buying" is my routine and I believe that if you are focused and not impulsive, you will benefit a lot more over time.
 


These statements seem to contradict or to be in tension with your earlier statements about not selling any BTC until they are equal to $1million to one satoshi.. and sure maybe there are some framing and context issues, but I find some of these assertions  to be a wee bit confusing, mostly because they seem to be contradicting one another to some degree.

Anyways, the thing is that I truly believe that they want to restrain BTC in their own playground.

I am not sure.  Of course, there would be a combination of considerations that any business such as an exchange would have to go through, and one would be regarding what is profitable and another would be some of the increasing constraints that might come from changes in the regulatory environment and trying to figure out the extent that they are compliant or are able to work with various regulatory constraints that vary based on jurisdictions but also questions regarding how some countries may engage in regulatory overreach - even if some exchanges might be trying to avoid certain jurisdictions (maybe the USA is a BIG one in terms of those kinds of considerations).  And, yeah there might be some reputational concerns that exchanges have, too.. because if they deviate too far from certain community expectations, they might experience some backlash from customers, too.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1103
This is what I do. I drink and I know things.
P.S: I will still HODL BTC until 1 sat is equal to $1mil... Tongue Grin

Of course, seems a bit much from my perspective, but I have already said my piece about that way of framing the matter. 

By the way, I do understand that there are some folks who believe it might be better to never sell their BTC and to engage in various kinds of usage of BTC as collateral, and in principle, I don't have too many problem with such ideas, even though hopefully people are considering the extent that they might engage in some services that put their BTC too much at risk in terms of third party risk blah blah blah.. and there may be more prudent practices to sell a bit of BTC.. depending on personal circumstances rather than engaging in some of the bullshit (and possible scams) collateral arrangements.

I'm not in favor of using BTC as collateral for any kind/ type of third-party services because of the risks involved, which in some cases are huge (even if ppl don't realize them).
Neither I'm the type of guy who will hodl BTC just to hold them and make some kind of show-off.
I trade every day in more than 4 exchanges regularly for the last 3-4 years now, so "selling" and "buying" is my routine and I believe that if you are focused and not impulsive, you will benefit a lot more over time.
Anyways, the thing is that I truly believe that they want to restrain BTC in their own playground.
legendary
Activity: 3710
Merit: 10196
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
P.S: I will still HODL BTC until 1 sat is equal to $1mil... Tongue Grin

Of course, seems a bit much from my perspective, but I have already said my piece about that way of framing the matter. 

By the way, I do understand that there are some folks who believe it might be better to never sell their BTC and to engage in various kinds of usage of BTC as collateral, and in principle, I don't have too many problem with such ideas, even though hopefully people are considering the extent that they might engage in some services that put their BTC too much at risk in terms of third party risk blah blah blah.. and there may be more prudent practices to sell a bit of BTC.. depending on personal circumstances rather than engaging in some of the bullshit (and possible scams) collateral arrangements.
sr. member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 374
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
These companies who bought bitcoin way early are the ones reaping the benefits and all, we get to enjoy the ride too which ia not so bad. Still, ai'm not wholly bought out with the fact that there are a growing amount of whales in the market that can literally shift the tide with one tap or click. Kinda scary if you ask me especially when we consider the fact that they are only growing in numbers.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1103
This is what I do. I drink and I know things.
~snip~

You say it better than I can even imagine man, so yes you are right and couldn't explain better my position. Smiley
OFC a lot of people struggle and put their faith, knowledge, time, and money to make BTC what it is now, and even if Satoshi starts it without them BTC will never be in this place and I don't mean the price of it. My thanks go to all of them (including you) who believe in it without having in their mind to cut off all the others, the plan that this "elite" group set in motion.

Sorry for the tone, it might sound too aggressive but I'm "tired" to hear that some billionaire or a fund buys/ invest in BTC now. I just don't bite this, all of a sudden, BTC mania from their circle. They don't want the freedom that BTC offer, they want the exclusivity of something that made for all and that simply pisses is me off.
As for the price, it's sure that I get the same benefit (or maybe more) that BTC runs like crazy and I would be a liar to say that I don't enjoy this rally or that I don't sell BTC waiting to get $1mil per sat. I said it in an exaggerated tone, to show that 1) there are people that see this coming from the time that meets with bitcoin and 2) they don't have to sell. Personally, I still believe that we haven't seen the limit of BTC but I'm a romantic fool... Cool

Bitcoin, nonetheless, does remain a kind of success beyond belief in terms of continuing in a way that has a lot of contributors that deserve thanks but none should be worshiped

This sentence finds me absolutely agree.

P.S: I will still HODL BTC until 1 sat is equal to $1mil... Tongue Grin
legendary
Activity: 3710
Merit: 10196
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
As I said before, we have to thank Saylor for the recent price increases and institutional adoption. Obviously they are not due to him alone but he has played an important role

To be honest, I don't want to thank any of those "golden boyz" clowns. They are the same who fight BTC from the beginning, the same who told everywhere that it's a bubble and laugh about it, the same who say that this is a hackers and terrorists black money, the same who hunt fellow community members.

Personally, I don't see any reason to come off as so disgruntled.  If you are a BTC HODLer, then of course, you are benefitting from both the behavior of Saylor and other institutions and wealthy who have been influenced by Saylor's doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on bitcoin.

So, yeah, no need to worship anyone..  I agree with you on that angle.

Their plan is to make BTC their rare gold bar, their precious high-value toy, and let all the general people out of it.

Sure, they are acting in self-interests, and bitcoin allows for that, and sure there may be a lot of regular people who are NOT able to buy as much BTC, but even regular people are still able to buy BTC, even if there are now BIGGER players pushing the BTC price UPpity.

As we know, regular peeps also had a good number of years to figure out BTC and at least get some kind of stake in BTC.. maybe 7 years or longer.. sure I am not going to attribute an ability for regular peeps to get into BTC in the first few years because BTC surely was niche in terms of being able to get exposure in a reasonable way.

But anyway, there had at least been a few years that regular peeps could have front run these institutional types...

Still, some people (including myself) will be tempted to sell their coins when the price will be $1mil for 1 satoshi. Wink Cool

Depending on when you got in to BTC, you can still become rich as fuck by shaving off BTC on the way up, so that $1million per satoshi is so damned exaggerated that it is impractical to really consider that anyone who had planned an investment in bitcoin and accumulated a reasonable stash of BTC would need to wait even close to that long in order to come up with both reasonable BTC selling strategies end to employ such reasonable strategies in such a way that is tailored to their own individual interests and circumstances.


P.S: The only one that I thank and I will thank "him" for the rest of my life, is Satoshi and all the people/ team/ elder members that make BTC what it is today.

Sure, Satoshi deserves thanks, but bitcoin was not made by one man, either.  Since Satoshi there have been all kinds of people who have contributed to the bitcoin space, and that likely includes Saylor, as well, even though you seem to be suggesting that he might no be contributing in ways that you would like.  Bitcoin remains a complicated beast and as you likely realize (apart from the tone of your post), and there are all kinds of folks who likely deserve thanks, even though I agree with your sentiment that no one deserves to be worshiped, and perhaps part of the reason that some of us might feel a bit more comfortable going down the worshiping path with Satoshi is because his disappearance from the space has caused him to become more of an idea rather than an actual man with a variety of shifting ideas and potential faults.. but the project (bitcoin) has surely grown beyond him and we surely can be thankful for the various foundational underpinnings that he established - even if some of the foundational aspects may have evolved in a variety of ways over the years, too..

Bitcoin, nonetheless, does remain a kind of success beyond belief in terms of continuing in a way that has a lot of contributors that deserve thanks but none should be worshiped, which seems to be the overarching point that you were making, condoras, no?
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1103
This is what I do. I drink and I know things.
As I said before, we have to thank Saylor for the recent price increases and institutional adoption. Obviously they are not due to him alone but he has played an important role

To be honest, I don't want to thank any of those "golden boyz" clowns. They are the same who fight BTC from the beginning, the same who told everywhere that it's a bubble and laugh about it, the same who say that this is a hackers and terrorists black money, the same who hunt fellow community members.
Their plan is to make BTC their rare gold bar, their precious high-value toy, and let all the general people out of it. Still, some people (including myself) will be tempted to sell their coins when the price will be $1mil for 1 satoshi. Wink Cool

P.S: The only one that I thank and I will thank "him" for the rest of my life, is Satoshi and all the people/ team/ elder members that make BTC what it is today.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
Apparently, they completed the sale of their convertible bond:

Please note that they allocated 14 days to perform the sale, but only one day was enough.

This could explain the price action, either or they already bought 1.05 Billion, or they are going to buy this soon!

Yes, I just saw that. I believe it is the fundamental reason behind the pump. Correlation doesn't imply causation but it doesn't make it impossible either.

As I said before, we have to thank Saylor for the recent price increases and institutional adoption. Obviously they are not due to him alone but he has played an important role:

legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Apparently, they completed the sale of their convertible bond:


https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1362785854758993927?s=20

Please note that they allocated 14 days to perform the sale, but only one day was enough.

This could explain the price action, either or they already bought 1.05 Billion, or they are going to buy this soon!


legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
I'm surprised no one has commented on this thread lately.

Surely it's because you give so much data that you don't leave anything to comment anymore, lol Smiley

It might be also because there are other few threads commenting on MS, but not with so much data.

It is clear that Saylor is betting heavily, in a way that time will leave him as either a genius or a madman, but not somewhere in between.

I am of the opinion, as are many, that in the recent rise of Bitcoin, Saylor has had a lot to do, and we have to thank him for that.

However, as suchmoon commented, he had accusations of fraud, that he settled by paying a fine without admitting or denying them. This, and his agressive take on bitcoin for his company should raise a red flag but who knows if he will be remembered in the future as the Bitcon Genius.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
It's nice to see how the Bitcoin investment changed the outlook on MSTR.
First a recap on how Microstrategy built up their BTC investment, a graph is worth thousands of words:

MSRT BTC Buys and holdings
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
A very interesting thread to recap the situation:

Quote
1/ MicroStrategy has announced a $600M convertible bond raise in order to buy even more Bitcoin

How does this compare to their previous offering?
And is this their last?
2/ First, a convert bond starts as a bond then "converts" to equity. The company pays lower interest rates b/c of this potential conversion. Aka the company will pay for it later w/ equity dilution. A company will choose this route if they have bad credit or expect high growth.

3/ In Dec 2020, MSTR announced their first convert bond offering for the explicit purpose of buying Bitcoin. Citi immediately downgraded MSTR to a “sell” recommendation. The market had a much more bullish take

4/ Investor appetite was so strong that MSTR increa
sed the offering from $400M to $550M w/ the option for another $100M. All of this was filled for a total $650M offering

 5/ MSTR also priced their bonds insanely low. Interest was 0.75% / yr. Payments were ~$4M /yr for a company w/ an operating income of ~$40M. That's 10x coverage. 2x is considered strong

6/ Saylor went even further than this aggressive pricing by giving themselves the option to settle the bond in shares or pay out in cash. The bond was struck for $398 per share while the stock was at $289. A 35% premium to investors

7/ MSTR has now announced their new offering of $600M converts w/ a $90M increase. Pricing is still TBD but it isn’t hard to imagine it will be in line w/ the last offering. Will we even see another upsize in the offering given Bitcoin’s continuous rising price?

8/ Why do investors remain excited? MSTR has no debt, apart from the $650M note. They can handle more given a) their operating income and b) their balance sheet has more than doubled from their Bitcoin holding - from $1.1B to $3.4B
9/ MSTR owns more BTC than any other operating company, and it gives it a scarcity value above the value of the core business and BTC holdings.

10/ To many institutional investors, it is *the* company you want to invest in for an “almost free call option on Bitcoin”

MicroStrategy and Bitcoin: the Mother of All Fat Tails? - Miller Value Partners
Bill Miller IV on the latest opportunity in a procyclically positioned income strategy.
https://millervalue.com/4q20-income-strategy-letter/

11/ Tesla’s addition of Bitcoin to their balance sheet is helping normalize corps holding Bitcoin as a reserve, but MSTR is the only public company actively taking out debt to acquire more Bitcoin

 
12/ And, per their “Bitcoin Acquisition Strategy” in their 10K, they have no plans to stop. For the foreseeable future, they will use excess cash flows and debt to acquire more and more Bitcoin

13/ TL;DR: MSTR remains the only public company on the market continuing to take out debt to acquire more Bitcoin. Their pricing of these bonds and rising stock price have shown their success in this strategy. They won’t be stopping anytime

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1361779890731778059.html

Nothing too difficult, a few points were also already touched in my thread, but anyway, it's a good recap!


legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Bond priced:

MicroStrategy Announces Pricing of Offering of Convertible Senior Notes

Quote

TYSONS CORNER, Va., February 17, 2021 — MicroStrategy® Incorporated (Nasdaq: MSTR) (“MicroStrategy”) today announced the pricing of its offering of $900 million aggregate principal amount of 0% convertible senior notes due 2027 (the “notes”). The notes will be sold in a private offering to qualified institutional buyers in reliance on Rule 144A under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended (the “Securities Act”). MicroStrategy also granted to the initial purchasers of the notes an option to purchase, within a 13-day period beginning on, and including, the date on which the notes are first issued, up to an additional $150 million aggregate principal amount of the notes. The offering is expected to close on February 19, 2021, subject to satisfaction of customary closing conditions.


A few thoughts
  • 0%. Coupon rate.You are lending money to MicroStrategy for free. Negative interest rates are here, but surely not for MicroStrategy. First issue was 0.75%
  • 900 billion + 150 optional. They announced 600 BLN. First issue was  650 BLN.
  • 13 days selling window. This means sale ends on March 5th. But I expect it to close earlier due to massive demand

All this signal an extreme demand of CFO’s getting long of bitcoin. Apparently many of them cannot get long BTC directly, so will use this investment vehicle setup by Saylor.
Everybody wins!
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 2174
Professional Community manager
Microstrategy is at it again: issuing debt to buy bitcoin:
At this point, it's a question of which public company would be next to include Bitcoin to it's balance sheet. Michael Saylor through microstrategy has set a glowing example and the list which now includes Tesla would likely keep growing.

It however appears that there was a dip in the price within the time the news was announced publicly and the stock price closed at a negative value, significant?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MSTR
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Microstrategy is at it again: issuing debt to buy bitcoin:


MicroStrategy Announces Proposed Private Offering of $600 Million of Convertible Senior Notes

Quote

TYSONS CORNER, Va., February 16, 2021 — MicroStrategy® Incorporated (Nasdaq: MSTR) (“MicroStrategy”) today announced that it intends to offer, subject to market conditions and other factors, $600 million aggregate principal amount of convertible senior notes due 2027 (the “notes”) in a private offering to qualified institutional buyers in reliance on Rule 144A under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended (the “Securities Act”).


Please note this is a private sale. I guess it is an aftermath of their bitcoin conference a few weeks back. I bet a lot of treasurer cannot get long bitcoin for a variety of reasons, hence here Micheal Saylor is offering them a vehicle (Microstrategy itself) to gain exposure to Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 2174
Professional Community manager
Microstrategy recently released their annual 10-K report and unsurprisingly Bitcoin appeared in it a couple of times. They shared their acquisition strategy, risks, corporate strategies, Bitcoin overview etc. Link to download the full PDF - https://www.microstrategy.com/content/dam/website-assets/collateral/financial-documents/financial-document-archive/Form-10-K_01-12-2021.pdf

(Tl;dr) Overview:

Quote
We view our bitcoin holdings as long-term holdings and we do not plan to engage in regular trading of bitcoin or to
hedge or otherwise enter into derivative contracts with respect to our bitcoin holdings, though we may sell bitcoins in
future periods as needed to generate cash for treasury management and other general corporate purposes. We have not
targeted any specific amount of bitcoin holdings, and we will continue to monitor market conditions in determining
whether to conduct debt or equity financings to purchase additional bitcoin.

As of February 8, 2021, we held approximately 71,079 bitcoin that were acquired at an aggregate purchase price of
$1.145 billion and an average purchase price of approximately $16,109 per bitcoin, inclusive of fees and expenses.
With a purchase price of $16,109, microstrategy is up about 300% in their Bitcoin holdings at current exchange rate. That figure is however insignificant as the company does not plan to sell or trade, but instead hold for the long term, while acquiring more if possible.

Significantly, Bitcoin was included in their business overview as one of their two main strategies:
Quote
Business Overview
MicroStrategy pursues two corporate strategies in the operation of its business. One strategy is to grow our enterprise
analytics software business and the other strategy is to acquire and hold bitcoin.

...

We believe that our bitcoin strategy is complementary to our analytics software and services business, as we believe
that our bitcoin and related activities in support of the bitcoin network enhance awareness of our brand and can provide
opportunities to secure new customers for our analytics offerings. We are also exploring opportunities to apply bitcoin
related technologies such as blockchain analytics into our software offerings.

They also shared the risks associated with holding Bitcoin:
Quote
• Fluctuations in the price of bitcoin may significantly influence the market price of our class A common stock.
• Our historical financial statements do not reflect the potential variability in earnings that we may experience in the
future relating to bitcoin holdings.
• Changes in securities regulation may adversely impact the market price of our class A common stock.
• Our bitcoin holdings could subject us to regulatory scrutiny.
• Due to the unregulated nature and lack of transparency surrounding the operations of many bitcoin trading
venues, they may experience fraud, security failures or operational problems, which may adversely affect the value
of our bitcoin.
• The price of bitcoin may be influenced by regulatory, commercial, and technical factors that are highly uncertain.
• The concentration of our bitcoin holdings enhances the risks inherent in our bitcoin acquisition strategy.
• Our bitcoin holdings are less liquid than our existing cash and cash equivalents and may not be able to serve as a
source of liquidity for us to the same extent as cash and cash equivalents.
• If we or our third-party service providers experience a security breach or cyberattack and unauthorized parties
obtain access to our bitcoin, we may lose some or all of our bitcoin and our financial condition and results of
operations could be materially adversely affected.
• The loss or destruction of a private key required to access our bitcoin may be irreversible. If we are unable to access
our private keys or if we experience a cyberattack or other data loss relating to our bitcoin, our financial condition
and results of operations could be materially adversely affected.
• Regulatory change reclassifying bitcoin as a security could lead to our classification as an “investment company”
under the Investment Company Act of 1940 and could adversely affect the market price of bitcoin and the market
price of our class A common stock.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Microstrategy hosted in the past two days a very interesting conference : Bitcoin for Corporations.

Now every session is available for rewatch on their website,
Bitcoin for corporations

Also available to download their "Bitcoin Playbook".

Bitcoin Initiative – Project Roadmap

This is a long, but really interesting read:

Quote
As a market leader, MicroStrategy is transforming how companies now approach their treasury reserve strategy. Download this playbook for a high-level overview of the key phases and steps MicroStrategy took in its initiative to adopt bitcoin as its primary treasury reserve asset.

---

MicroStrategy Bitcoin Initiative - Open Source Documents
These documents are being provided to serve as a resource to help as you navigate a corporate bitcoin strategy. As indicated in the documents, portions of the documents have been redacted due to their confidential and/or proprietary nature.

To properly download this playbook you need a corporate email, otherwise you can watch presentation videos that give a pretty good idea of the contents.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
They did it again.
They bought their 6th tranche of bitcoin.
According to Micheal Saylor:


https://twitter.com/michael_saylor/status/1356600103193182210?s=21

Well, this is found also on my spreadsheets



With this purchase they are towards, but below, the 40% share of the firm being pure BTC:



40% is the threshold of the total assets in financial instruments that require a company to register as a financial company.

legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 15144
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
PE ratio is not a metric relevant to valuing a bond investment. 
Yes, I understand that P/E is used for stock evaluation (and I'll admit that when I wrote that post I'd momentarily forgotten that he hadn't bought the stock)--but wouldn't value investors still shy away from even buying debt from companies with a metric that high?  It still means that essentially the stock is expensive--but I'll also admit that I don't understand bond trading all that well, or at least how value investors know which bonds are attractive.

Well, of course the P/E is something that affects primarily the stock investment, and on a lesser extent the bond-holder. Take the GameStop drama: now the P/E dramatically surged to nonsense valuation. Has the stock investment outcome changed? Yes, now investing in the stock is far more dangerous.
Has the scenario changed for a bond holder? Well, not much, as those P/E valuation are not impacting the creditworthiness of the firm: they were on the brink of collapse before, and probably so are now in this pump ( something different could be said for firms with astonishing P/E for completely different reasons, like TSLA, but I tone want to swerve OT too much).

In this specific case, please remember we are talking about a convertible bond, hence something that can be, under some determined circumstances, redeemed in stocks. Hence, valuing those hybrid instruments, P/E must be taken into account.
legendary
Activity: 3332
Merit: 6809
Cashback 15%
PE ratio is not a metric relevant to valuing a bond investment. 
Yes, I understand that P/E is used for stock evaluation (and I'll admit that when I wrote that post I'd momentarily forgotten that he hadn't bought the stock)--but wouldn't value investors still shy away from even buying debt from companies with a metric that high?  It still means that essentially the stock is expensive--but I'll also admit that I don't understand bond trading all that well, or at least how value investors know which bonds are attractive.
Pages:
Jump to:
© 2020, Bitcointalksearch.org