Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... - page 2.

plastic.elastic

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Quote from: SgtSpike on November 29, 2011, 11:34:52 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:53:58 AM

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air.

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ?

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh?

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.

You're making yourself look stupid.

You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling. The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water.

Yes and thats a good idea..... to dumb asses

plastic.elastic

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Activity: 168

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Quote from: Atheros on November 29, 2011, 04:27:36 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

See D&T, we just don't know what he knows. Grin

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal).

Dont try to make like you know what you're talking about. You're thinking of having the condenser in a pool.

plastic.elastic

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 08:40:25 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)

vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)

Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674

Quote

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.

Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?

LOL

First, please stop calling condenser .... a compressor coil. Thats confusing as hell and certainly makes you look....

Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer.

Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now?

Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource.

Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling"

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 03:18:03 AM

If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

Way to think genius !!

SgtSpike

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Activity: 1400

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Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:53:58 AM

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air.

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ?

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh?

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.

You're making yourself look stupid.

You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling. The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler.

Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan)

vs

Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump)

Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. Grin

On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water:
http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674

Quote

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.

Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?

Atheros

sr. member

Activity: 249

Merit: 251

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

See D&T, we just don't know what he knows. Grin

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 02:43:50 AM

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal).

plastic.elastic

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:53:58 AM

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air.

D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know.

At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ?

Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works?

I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh?

PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors.

DeathAndTaxes

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Activity: 1218

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:53:58 AM

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?
Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself.

Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff.

so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside.

In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground)
In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air.

There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter.

Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air.

plastic.elastic

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 01:39:01 AM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:36:07 AM

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 04:06:59 PM

DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?

By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

What the heck are you talking about?

Do you know how AC works?

Do you?

Convention AC unit transfer thermal energy to outside air. A geothermal heat pump transfers thermal energy to outside ground water. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to adapt the same technology to transfer thermal energy into a backyard pool.

An AC unit is simply a heat pump. It pumps thermal energy from inside the house to outside.

To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ?

Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air.

DeathAndTaxes

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Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 01:36:07 AM

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 04:06:59 PM

DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?

By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

What the heck are you talking about?

Do you know how AC works?

Do you?

Convention AC unit transfer thermal energy to outside air. A geothermal heat pump transfers thermal energy to outside ground water. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to adapt the same technology to transfer thermal energy into a backyard pool.

An AC unit is simply a heat pump. It pumps thermal energy from inside the house to outside.

plastic.elastic

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 04:06:59 PM

DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?

By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

What the heck are you talking about?

Do you know how AC works?

Atheros

sr. member

Activity: 249

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It is truly wasteful what we do with our free energy sources. Future generations will truly look back at ours and all will wonder, "How could they have been so stupid?"

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 04:06:59 PM

DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?

By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

Honest answer ... because people don't really care about energy efficiency because energy is extremely cheap.

If energy costs 10x the current price you would see a lot more dual use technologies, higher efficiency appliances, more money spent on insulation, passively cool/warm home designs, skylighting, solar panels, etc.

Atheros

sr. member

Activity: 249

Merit: 251

DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?

By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist?

P4man

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 27, 2011, 10:08:36 AM

Still waterblocks are the most expensive component for cooling and you would still need those.

Why would you need waterblocks if you submerge everything in oil? I think the previous poster was talking about cooling the oil with a heatexchanger to a pond .

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 03:18:03 AM

If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

The suburban equivelent would be to use a heat exchanger and dump the thermal energy into backyard swimming pool. "Free" heat for your pool and a giant thermal sink. Still waterblocks are the most expensive component for cooling and you would still need those.

P4man

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Unless you seal the box hermetically, you have to pump the oil, because you have to filter it. And even if you seal it, you still want movement in the oil to help dissipate the heat.

There have been plenty of experiments with mineral oil, and the consensus is that its doesnt cool better than air (let alone water), it just has the advantage of being completely silent and perhaps looking cool.

As for price, if you can achieve sufficient density and scale it may not be that bad. Mineral oil isnt that expensive in volume, most of the other parts you need like pumps, filters, radiators can be used from a car wreck or something. GPU waterblocks and other watercooling components arent cheap either.

For a single rig, an oil bath is probably not worth it, but if you have a small farm that you can space efficiently submerge, it might actually be doable. Have a look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U5zoIEjo1Zk

Not fun for maintenance though.

Atheros

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Activity: 249

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If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.

Topic: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... - page 2. (Read 5813 times)