I was speculating it is probably something else but he did go on about not being able to get the traces through then again this would be laid out automatically with the cad software and I believe that is something requiring some pretty extensive modules in a CAD software something our team doesn't have.
If I remember correctly he did have concerns in that regard with the A1 traces as the pads on that chip were tiny let me go back and listen again to the meeting recording to tease out more information. The BGA is a different kettle of fish entirely though from the A1 though.
Edit: "You can't run a wire between the balls they'd short" from the meeting recording.
Topic: Minion ASIC - free samples and up to US$20000 discount - page 5. (Read 11024 times)
While I have no love for routing BGAs, I'm curious... Did your EE specify why they believe the 'inner' pins can't be brought out directly? It looks like two power planes (row A through AH and the sides of AJ, AK) and signaling pins at row AK that can just be routed straight out one edge, and row AJ that can be routed in between the pads of AK.
Between the pads? Really is there enough space that be a pretty tiny trace wouldn't it?
While I have no love for routing BGAs, I'm curious... Did your EE specify why they believe the 'inner' pins can't be brought out directly? It looks like two power planes (row A through AH and the sides of AJ, AK) and signaling pins at row AK that can just be routed straight out one edge, and row AJ that can be routed in between the pads of AK.
Between the pads? Really is there enough space that be a pretty tiny trace wouldn't it?
While I have no love for routing BGAs, I'm curious... Did your EE specify why they believe the 'inner' pins can't be brought out directly? It looks like two power planes (row A through AH and the sides of AJ, AK) and signaling pins at row AK that can just be routed straight out one edge, and row AJ that can be routed in between the pads of AK.
One issue our lead EE has already seen might be the need for a 6 layer board.
Paraphrasing our EE at the last meeting:
'The inner pins on the Minion can't be brought out directly to be connected. You will need to use at least 4 layers of interconnect and drill microvias to carry the signals, typically put in the pad, which is a much higher standard of manufacturing that is required compared to the more straightforward QFN chips. It is a pretty risky venture and there are plenty of possible faults that can creep in here. Reworking these could be over $150 per chip and a monstrous undertaking as the chips themselves would require being bumped again or the chip has to be discarded.'
Anyone else seen that given the Minion's design?
Minion Datasheet 2014 APR 11
Paraphrasing our EE at the last meeting:
'The inner pins on the Minion can't be brought out directly to be connected. You will need to use at least 4 layers of interconnect and drill microvias to carry the signals, typically put in the pad, which is a much higher standard of manufacturing that is required compared to the more straightforward QFN chips. It is a pretty risky venture and there are plenty of possible faults that can creep in here. Reworking these could be over $150 per chip and a monstrous undertaking as the chips themselves would require being bumped again or the chip has to be discarded.'
Anyone else seen that given the Minion's design?
Minion Datasheet 2014 APR 11
Good thing Black Arrow hasnt lost focus on its original project which is months behind schedule. Glad to see they are really focused on completing their first batch! Great job!!!
I really wish this was less fighting between each other and more post about making new improved awesome miners. 
Can't we all get along!
miners will be available in no time dudeCan't we all get along!
The only two conditions are to be met
1. Marto to receive chips ASAP depends from black arrow only
2. Black arrow to keep his word and give good price for the chips to all folks who produce boards
Then we miners would be able to get minions in our hands and enjoy roi
Eventually....
All depends on black arrow only
Ps: there is no ASIC chip available at the moment which will ever roi it's price alone
I do sincerely hope that black arrow will change it
The winner will be the community since the discounts require GPL designs going out that is the focus right? Just a note Marto you want to worry more about making your current customers happier as opposed to worrying about some sort of phony staged competition or race with us. We are not your competition.
Bick this here is a joke in return of you almost caling us scam in Zefir's coincraft tread.Our problems with customers are in the past.
And our small team of 3 people for design hw sw and production did already 7 succesful mining board projects.
I'm just inviting you EE team in a small competition for fun.
You chose to change the subject.... Why ?
Are you in or not
No comment.
You deal with your customers how you like but don't expect people to ignore it.
You are on my ignore list so I don't have to watch it anymore as it is quite painful to see good design get lost in bad service.
Feel free to go back on topic if you like.
And you take it out of what ?? a few members of my GB asking for fee return (one of them member of your famous team), they all got a refund for the chips cost !!!
A few customers that want refund for assembly service that is not refundable by our terms and conditions.
All other issues we had are solved.
What did you did in terms of design and production in the last 9 months ?
And we took what from community??
All customers got their products or refund
RMA units are handled.
And all you did are meetings , right ?
And I see you call us scam again, and compare us to BFL
You can write this to me after you design something first, then you can try put it in production and then handle the support for it.
WE have our failures , but we are here working.
In the same time you make endless web meetings...
What are your results
again ARE you IN or NOT?
Anyway wish you and your team luck
The winner will be the community since the discounts require GPL designs going out that is the focus right? Just a note Marto you want to worry more about making your current customers happier as opposed to worrying about some sort of phony staged competition or race with us. We are not your competition.
Bick this here is a joke in return of you almost caling us scam in Zefir's coincraft tread.Our problems with customers are in the past.
And our small team of 3 people for design hw sw and production did already 7 succesful mining board projects.
I'm just inviting you EE team in a small competition for fun.
You chose to change the subject.... Why ?
Are you in or not
No comment.
You deal with your customers how you like but don't expect people to ignore it.
You are on my ignore list so I don't have to watch it anymore as it is quite painful to see good design get lost in bad service.
Feel free to go back on topic if you like.
The winner will be the community since the discounts require GPL designs going out that is the focus right? Just a note Marto you want to worry more about making your current customers happier as opposed to worrying about some sort of phony staged competition or race with us. We are not your competition.
Bick this here is a joke in return of you almost caling us scam in Zefir's coincraft tread.Our problems with customers are in the past.
And our small team of 3 people for design hw sw and production did already 7 succesful mining board projects.
I'm just inviting you EE team in a small competition for fun.
You chose to change the subject.... Why ?
Are you in or not
Dude,
It was just a technical challenge for you
Honesty and business is other story
So go on with your project and remember no matter what you do you have to know what you are doing to be able to design something working at the end
Meetings will not help you much with that
Hard work is needed that is all
It was just a technical challenge for you
Honesty and business is other story
So go on with your project and remember no matter what you do you have to know what you are doing to be able to design something working at the end
Meetings will not help you much with that
Hard work is needed that is all
Dude it is a tech challenge just to get a board made. We don't need a pissing in the wind contest on top of it. Like I said Marto better put more time in customer service that is where he really lacks skills and that could be a problem given the people who are producing boards and selling them to the community his real competition. He can build boards and get them mass produced but he sure as hell doesn't know how to respond to complaints.
Let me put it in perspective. The WPC has taken $0 from the community. If we never bring a design to market then we cost the community $0. When we have something from the months of work that has been put in by a small number of engineers then we can talk about the design, the work that went in, the delays etc. But personally, and I think I speak for the WPC in this regard, we don't really care what you think hard work is and what it takes to get our designs done. Having weekly meetings to update the membership doesn't detract from the work that goes on.
Again we wish Marto the best and we hope he gets out another design in a few days as he normally does.
Dude,
It was just a technical challenge for you
Honesty and business is other story
So go on with your project and remember no matter what you do you have to know what you are doing to be able to design something working at the end
Meetings will not help you much with that
Hard work is needed that is all
It was just a technical challenge for you
Honesty and business is other story
So go on with your project and remember no matter what you do you have to know what you are doing to be able to design something working at the end
Meetings will not help you much with that
Hard work is needed that is all
Participate in what?
We have nothing to do with fabrication and selling miners to people. We have clearly told everyone we do the designs and when we have something they will be released. Be it A1, BF2, AM BE200, the other undisclosed chip we have in hand or say the Minion.
Buddy if you want to challenge anyone go beat BFL to market they have an Imperial Monarch design they just started trying to Pre-sell. I am pretty sure you can beat them cold. As for us and the members of the WPC we all hope Marto gets out a design tomorrow and sells a great board... but I also hope he also resolves the trail of bad deals he has left around that is something that stinks to high heaven no one really needs that with all the HF BFL and Avalon etc bs that has gone on. Like many others in this community the people in the WPC want good deals, good boards and LESS F&*()_$* SCAMMERS. That is the bottomline.
We have nothing to do with fabrication and selling miners to people. We have clearly told everyone we do the designs and when we have something they will be released. Be it A1, BF2, AM BE200, the other undisclosed chip we have in hand or say the Minion.
Buddy if you want to challenge anyone go beat BFL to market they have an Imperial Monarch design they just started trying to Pre-sell. I am pretty sure you can beat them cold. As for us and the members of the WPC we all hope Marto gets out a design tomorrow and sells a great board... but I also hope he also resolves the trail of bad deals he has left around that is something that stinks to high heaven no one really needs that with all the HF BFL and Avalon etc bs that has gone on. Like many others in this community the people in the WPC want good deals, good boards and LESS F&*()_$* SCAMMERS. That is the bottomline.
Nothing to prove to you or Marto or anyone actually.
When we provide something then you can judge it. Till then this seems to be a silly pissing contest. Like I said Marto needs to focus on his customers not on some phony contest.
AgreedWhen we provide something then you can judge it. Till then this seems to be a silly pissing contest. Like I said Marto needs to focus on his customers not on some phony contest.
So you refuse to participate ?
It does not matter for me any way
Nothing to prove to you or Marto or anyone actually.
When we provide something then you can judge it. Till then this seems to be a silly pissing contest. Like I said Marto needs to focus on his customers not on some phony contest there are plenty of pissed off customers all around the community that have moved on from people that just don't follow up properly. If you want to know how it is done then I suggest your competition is Ben Turas not the WPC.
When we provide something then you can judge it. Till then this seems to be a silly pissing contest. Like I said Marto needs to focus on his customers not on some phony contest there are plenty of pissed off customers all around the community that have moved on from people that just don't follow up properly. If you want to know how it is done then I suggest your competition is Ben Turas not the WPC.
The winner will be the community with GPL designs going out that is the focus right?
Sure but without licensing servers This design doesn't have to have licensing servers. Does it? Nor does Marto have to release a GPL license nor does anyone anyone can buy the chips and keep selling his units as they have before. Let us see who actually releases a GPL design then we can talk.
Unless you prove me wrong
However there is one member of your team who already did it
Hats down to vs. is he a member of your team?
The other one is bkk
The third one is?
The winner will be the community with GPL designs going out that is the focus right?
Sure but without licensing servers This design doesn't have to have licensing servers. Does it? Nor does Marto have to release a GPL license nor does anyone because anyone can buy these chips and keep selling their units as they have before. Let us see who actually releases a GPL design then we can talk. Again you guys need to really work on your customer service and not worry needlessly about what the WPC is doing. Plenty of chips to go around that are not Minions and plenty of UNHAPPY people willing to buy elsewhere.
The winner will be the community with GPL designs going out that is the focus right?
Sure but without licensing servers Ps fee Genno stakes are amt specialty only
Again there is nothing wrong to earn a bug for your efforts for sure
I do not like the fact that gpl word is here. Just skip it in your next posts will you?
The winner will be the community since the discounts require GPL designs going out that is the focus right? Just a note Marto you want to worry more about making your current customers happier as opposed to worrying about some sort of phony staged competition or race with us. We are not your competition.
WE did sent a few e-mails over last 2 months... No Answer
Ordered the maximum 5 samples for 540 USD, paid with BTC.
No need for free chips, Just send these 5 ASAP
We'll suport the project and will strat a design of a mining board for minion.
@Bick - Lets race ......
Ordered the maximum 5 samples for 540 USD, paid with BTC.
No need for free chips, Just send these 5 ASAP
We'll suport the project and will strat a design of a mining board for minion.
@Bick - Lets race ......
hahahahaha.... that's not even fair, they have never even produced jack shit
That is called a business you just do not understand how things should work
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