Mixing your Bitcoin might become illegal in the future - page 5.

blckhawk

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Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Well, if Bitcoin keeps having such allegations then there's a possibility that its mixers could become illegal in the future. It's been hard for the government to monitor illegal in this network so certainly, it will be imposed as illegal, it just a matter of time unless the government can pull something to halt illegal operations. I was not so sure what will happen if mixers will get banned but perhaps it will reduce the number of users I guess. Using privacy coins would be an alternative though but the pretty sure government will still do something about it.

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Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Only those mixers that allow themselves to be exposed to the reach of the authorities can be banned, and let someone tell me how any government in the world will ban something that is completely out of its reach?

According to what most governments in the world think today, any mixer is basically illegal - but it is also illegal to share copyrighted content and torrents still work - just as it is illegal to sell weapons on the black market, and that market literally blooming. I think that they (the authorities) will try to fight coin mixing in another way - and I think that they will condition the analysis of transactions and every coin they find to have passed through the mixer will be marked tainted.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future?

There is a high possibility that Mixing Bicoin will be banned by the government under the guise of anti money laundering law.

Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government?

I don't think it had a major effect on the Bitcoin market and I believe regular user won't be affected by the banning of mixer services.

Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Those who have nothing to hide won't use privacy coins but those who have shady activities will more likely to use privacy coins.

concept2

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How can they track any transactions using mixers? there are likely more than 10 ways to mix your coins or suspiciously use bitcoin without being noticed. Furthermore, there are services receiving bitcoin in exchange for cash so without any online clue, how can a government put us in jail?

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 07, 2021, 11:08:49 PM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on May 07, 2021, 10:27:38 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on May 07, 2021, 08:07:47 PM

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.

@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

This will always be a cat and mouse game. Some will probably get caught and some will not. The same goes with the traditional form of money laundry which also involves popular banking institutions. It was made illegal but it is still going on strong until now.

Bitcoin mixing may not necessarily mean money laundering but if it is a process which obliterates the tracks of the funds, it will automatically be suspicious in the eyes of the authorities. If a certain tool wipes out how money is obtained or what kind of transaction it came from, it already raises a flag; it triggers an alarm. If it appears to be an obstruction of law enforcement, then expect that the authorities won't be friendly toward it.

I will bet that this law will only have its fangs reared for about three months because that's the lifespan of implementation in my country. It will be a cat and mouse if they were to really implementat and enforce it no matter what happens but I have doubts with this banning stuff. Look at the Great Firewall of China jumpers, they are still around even if their Internet in China is heavily censored.

Shasha80

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on May 08, 2021, 12:33:03 AM

Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

I'm sure Criminals will find a way to be able to carry out illegal activities, even though in the future mixers will be banned by the government.
One of them can be through Darkweb, actually the number of criminals who commit crimes using a mixer is very small in my opinion. Since
many criminals prefer to use fiat to carry out criminal transactions, it may be because it is easier to use fiat than crypto. So it is not certain
that mixing Bitcoin will become illegal or not in the future, depending on the number of crimes that have occurred in the crypto world.
If the percentage continues to increase, criminals use mixers to commit crimes, there is a possibility that mixers will be banned by the government.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: Fortify on May 07, 2021, 03:25:40 PM

Bitcoin mixers have one job: To disguise the original source of Bitcoin funds. ... this is the very definition of money laundering.

That is not true. In order to be considered as money laundering, the money must be involved in a crime. If the money is not involved in a crime, then it is not money laundering.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/money_laundering

electronicash

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there was a mixer that had been shut down before so it's very possible to happen again. cryptocurrencies are almost going to be regulated, it makes sense for them to suspect laundering is done thru mixers. it's just not going to be easy for them to do that though. if they become successful in preventing anyone from creating a mixer then the criminals will resort to the XMR which will make it them harder to trace.

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Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

It already happens since the mixer is available and continues to happen in the future, even if the government is trying to interfere or surveilling their citizens for suspicious activity. If that is about money launder, the criminals will find a way out how they can get and use the money without the government knows. The criminals can use the Darkweb to make a transaction, including money laundering or other illegal things because they do not want the government to track them.

But for most people, they will not have a problem seeing that thing and they think that is normal if their government wants to know their activity when they use crypto.

dansus021

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Quote from: Sihab76 on May 07, 2021, 05:21:25 PM

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

I hope is not happen cause im work in this industry maybe india will change his mind if other big country starting adopting crypto as investment or other things

davis196

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The darkweb is being used for illegal activities.Is the darkweb shutdown by any government?
The Tor browser and Tails OS are the main tools used to access the darkweb.
Are Tor browser and Tails OS shut down by any government?
The question here is HOW the governments can shut down Bitcoin mixing services?Is this even possible?
I don't see how any government in the world can effectively shut down all BTC tumblers,that are used by it's citizens.

TastyChillySauce00

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Maybe, once they find out there's such thing as bitcoin mixing which i'm sure they haven't figured out yet they probably gonna make some regulation about it. But, at the end of the day bitcoin is decentralized while mixers usually trying to run under their radar, maybe it's gonna be a game of mouse and cat because buying domain and moving the server seems like a piece of cake for the crypto mixing providers, not to mention they also run in the deepweb as well. you can think of all the possibilities to avoid government ban and i'm pretty sure the government gonna have a hard time dealing with it.

pooya87

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Quote from: Abiky on May 07, 2021, 02:25:35 PM

The recent popularity of Bitcoin has brought the attention of governments and central banks worldwide.

There is nothing recent about the (small) popularity of bitcoin and the attention they are giving bitcoin.

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We've seen certain opposition from countries like India, China, and Russia against the pioneer cryptocurrency. Countries that are friendly towards Bitcoin (like the US and UK), are constantly surveilling its citizens for any suspicious activity.

There is no difference between the attitude of any of these governments towards bitcoin, all US, UK, China, Russia and even to some extent India are the same when it comes to bitcoin. They aren't banning it but they don't like it either.

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Since most (if not all) of these centralized mixers don't comply with KYC/AML regulations,

You do realize that KYC is in direct contradiction with mixing, right? That means none of them have anything remotely related to AML/KYC otherwise they wouldn't be called a mixer!

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they're subject to being shut down by the government. Imagine if criminals begin using Bitcoin mixers in mass for money laundering purposes. If the trend continues, mixing Bitcoin may turn out to become illegal.

With that logic banking system must be shut down yesterday since criminals have been using them to launder their money for decades.

Quote

Do you think there's a possibility this will happen in the future? If not, why? What do you think will happen once mixers (both custodial and non-custodial) are banned by the government? Will this force people to use privacy coins more thoroughly? Or will everything remain the same? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Anything centralized can and will be shut down eventually as long as they don't bend to the stupid law and more importantly not pay taxes. That is why more decentralized way of doing everything is being introduced. Such as bitcoin instead of using corrupt banks, DEX instead of CEX, decentralized marketplace instead of centralized, decentralized mixing (eg. coinjoin) instead of centralized ones,...

FinneysTrueVision

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I don't know if it's even necessary to ban mixers. Money laundering is already illegal and they in the US they really don't need very much evidence to charge you with this. If their intent is to keep track of how people use their money then they will just undermine your privacy by making KYC/AML laws even stricter. We are already seeing in Europe that you need to verify your identity to make online purchases.

Darker45

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on May 07, 2021, 10:27:38 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on May 07, 2021, 08:07:47 PM

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.

@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

This will always be a cat and mouse game. Some will probably get caught and some will not. The same goes with the traditional form of money laundry which also involves popular banking institutions. It was made illegal but it is still going on strong until now.

Bitcoin mixing may not necessarily mean money laundering but if it is a process which obliterates the tracks of the funds, it will automatically be suspicious in the eyes of the authorities. If a certain tool wipes out how money is obtained or what kind of transaction it came from, it already raises a flag; it triggers an alarm. If it appears to be an obstruction of law enforcement, then expect that the authorities won't be friendly toward it.

Poker Player

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I think governments are going to have a hard time. They can outlaw mixers just like they can outlaw Bitcoin if they want to, but it's another matter if they can make them disappear, which is going to be almost impossible.

There is another post along these lines too, in which a mining pool only accepts transactions from "clean" addresses, unsuccessfully by the looks of it:

MARA Pool mined its first 'clean' block today.

amihada

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Quote from: Sihab76 on May 07, 2021, 05:21:25 PM

I am from Indian subordinates countries where bitcoin fully prohibited and governments already declared Bitcoin as illegal. But people who use Bitcoin police seized them and put him jail. But I think if Bitcoin might be illegal worldwide (if pretty possible) then a huge amounts of money 💰 loss would be happened worldwide.

I wonder if in your country there are people who use bitcoins arrested aren't they exchanging bitcoins for fiat then how can the police find people who have bitcoins?
I think all countries ban bitcoin too but there hasn't been a case of bitcoin users being arrested.

DapanasFruit

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I believe that one of the foundations of Bitcoin is actually transparency and that is why all transactions ever since the beginning of this coin can be viewed by anybody anytime anywhere there is access to internet. I mean, Satoshi Nakamoto never imagined that Bitcoin should be used by anybody to hide something, much more a tool for money laundering or ill-gotten wealth. This is the reason why already heard of criminals getting convictions as they used Bitcoin for transactions - it is all in there in the blockchain for all to see. When we have nothing to hide there is no need to use mixer to disguise the transaction and this is one big issue with governments. Yes, there is that big possibility that mixing services can be rendered to be illegal and unacceptable. And many mixing service organizations had been shut down by governments on the basis of violating money laundering laws and regulations.

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 07, 2021, 08:07:47 PM

There is very high probability that mixers will be banned in the future. But it doesn't mean they will be gone.

@Darker45 is correct, there will still be people that are going to use mixers and I don't think that people are going to get caught by authorities mixing their coins unless they tell them that they did, that is assuming that the government doesn't have a wiretap on your electronics and tracks all of your movements.

tbct_mt2

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If governments can not shut down all mixers or tumblers, people will use it.

It's your key, it's your bitcoin and you will be able to control your bitcoin transactions. People are fee to use Coin Join transactions and they can trade peer-to-peer or use truly DEX.

Governments can enforce stricter regulations on coin mixing and require exchanges to follow their rules. Exchanges can lock, ban, freeze accounts that have Bitcoin from mixing process.

People can use Bitcoin from mixers, make peer to peer trade to get fiat, and use fiat to buy altcoins. Will governments be able to trace thousand of altcoins and altcoin transactions too? I believe they will out of resources to do that.

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