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Topic: Mods/Admin, help please (will pursue legal routes if not dealt with) - page 3. (Read 7798 times)
February 05, 2014, 02:23:33 PM
February 05, 2014, 02:15:48 PM
but banning the victim is not right.. does no one have a conscience anymore or what?
defamation can be a grey area, however, libel is another matter and covers written statements which can be viewed by 3rd parties that affect you.
why have a trust system if the whole system is completely fucked?
@hilariousandco, that is what im getting at, i run a small business and my username is known elsewhere. this accusation can be potentially damaging to me outside of these forums. this is why i am considering legal action.
defamation can be a grey area, however, libel is another matter and covers written statements which can be viewed by 3rd parties that affect you.
why have a trust system if the whole system is completely fucked?
@hilariousandco, that is what im getting at, i run a small business and my username is known elsewhere. this accusation can be potentially damaging to me outside of these forums. this is why i am considering legal action.
Its a feedback system, people are free to post whatever they want on it. If I give you negative trust because you are an 18 foot dinosaur that stole brownies from an old woman, I'm allowed to do that, however that would hurt my own credibility which is the deterrent. If Vod gives untrue or invalid feedback, people will stop trusting his feedback, and it will have no effect on you anyway. If his claims are valid, then people will trust his feedback.
I can 100% guarentee you, we hear people wanting us to remove stuff left and right for libel. If someone posts something mean words about you on the internet, nothing is going to happen (barring extreme circumstances like death/bomb threats). If I make a blog, and say that Apple is a fascist organization who's products will electrocute you and kill you, nothing will happen. Freedom of Speech + Internet Opinions make the individual essentially untouchable. Libel has to be the 100% known truth misrepresented. If Vod thinks you are an alien and you are intent on taking over the world, as long as he has reason to believe you are, its not libel, its an opinion. Journalists and Organizations are held to a slightly different standard, but that has to do with product competition and responsible jouralism agreements. Slander/Defamation/Libel etc are incredibly hard to claim for individuals. Perhaps the only time I've ever heard of libel charges standing, is when it was between two competing businesses. If you smear another's product for self gain, Slander/Defamation/Libel claims get a bit of legitimacy.
Like I said, check the feedback of the admins and moderators here. If we removed any feedback at all, I'd assume it would be against ourselves.
February 05, 2014, 01:48:01 PM
Quote
Defamation and the internet
Given its background as a forum for free speech and the dissemination of ideas it is not surprising that, now e-mail is in the commercial mainstream, its transfer to that forum has produced certain problems. The problem centres on the fact that when sending Emails, many users feel free to express opinions they would not commit to paper when writing a business letter or talking to a group of colleagues. As a result of this, users often make imprudent statements. The problem with the net is that once the button is pressed to send a message, or the information or view in question is uploaded onto a website, it is “published.” In defamation it is at this stage that an offence occurs.
The accepted legal definition of defamation is “the publication of a statement which tends to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally.” The “statement” can be words, visual images or some other method of signifying meaning. Defamation takes two forms, libel and slander. Libel involves (amongst other things) writing or printing a defamatory statement. Slander is speech or gestures of a defamatory nature.
A person who is defamed may feel understandably aggrieved and may decide to take action to prevent circulation of the statement. Normally, the person would approach the publisher or the author. The problem with the WWW is that the identity of this entity is often far from obvious. So who does the aggrieved person approach, and ultimately sue particularly if the person who made the statement is untraceable or financially, not worth suing? In a number of notable recent cases, ISP’s have been sued for defamatory content on the basis that they as hosts of, or are the “publishers” of the defamation.
Given its background as a forum for free speech and the dissemination of ideas it is not surprising that, now e-mail is in the commercial mainstream, its transfer to that forum has produced certain problems. The problem centres on the fact that when sending Emails, many users feel free to express opinions they would not commit to paper when writing a business letter or talking to a group of colleagues. As a result of this, users often make imprudent statements. The problem with the net is that once the button is pressed to send a message, or the information or view in question is uploaded onto a website, it is “published.” In defamation it is at this stage that an offence occurs.
The accepted legal definition of defamation is “the publication of a statement which tends to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally.” The “statement” can be words, visual images or some other method of signifying meaning. Defamation takes two forms, libel and slander. Libel involves (amongst other things) writing or printing a defamatory statement. Slander is speech or gestures of a defamatory nature.
A person who is defamed may feel understandably aggrieved and may decide to take action to prevent circulation of the statement. Normally, the person would approach the publisher or the author. The problem with the WWW is that the identity of this entity is often far from obvious. So who does the aggrieved person approach, and ultimately sue particularly if the person who made the statement is untraceable or financially, not worth suing? In a number of notable recent cases, ISP’s have been sued for defamatory content on the basis that they as hosts of, or are the “publishers” of the defamation.
February 05, 2014, 01:41:15 PM
but banning the victim is not right.. does no one have a conscience anymore or what?
defamation can be a grey area, however, libel is another matter and covers written statements which can be viewed by 3rd parties that affect you.
why have a trust system if the whole system is completely fucked?
@hilariousandco, that is what im getting at, i run a small business and my username is known elsewhere. this accusation can be potentially damaging to me outside of these forums. this is why i am considering legal action.
defamation can be a grey area, however, libel is another matter and covers written statements which can be viewed by 3rd parties that affect you.
why have a trust system if the whole system is completely fucked?
@hilariousandco, that is what im getting at, i run a small business and my username is known elsewhere. this accusation can be potentially damaging to me outside of these forums. this is why i am considering legal action.
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February 05, 2014, 01:37:03 PM
Well first, the trust system is unmoderated. The Admins wont help you, they wont even remove negative feedback from themselves. Second, Slander/Defamation is an incredibly tough subject to sue over. I dont think there is a possible situation where the owners of a forum could get sued over a comment one of its users makes. There are a lot of "controversial" forums that have very unpopular opinions, and they are protected by freedom of speech. There was a site I remember playing around on where their goal was to get sued by PEZ, so they had their members make offensive videos. The winner was a video submission about how Hitler invented PEZ and they were originally colorful cyanide tablets used as extermination tools. The site got a letter by PEZ asking them to take it down, of which they didn't and that was the end of that.
That is hilarious. The internet is a tricky ground when it comes to libel laws. There must be a way a website or forum could get sued from refusing to remove libellous or slanderous content though? I know forum owners are not responsible for the content of their users, but maybe repeated refusal to remove something could cause them trouble. Usually when companies or individuals send out legal threats or cease and desists orders though it's just hot air attempting to scare you into submission, but surely if somebodies reputation had been severely damaged by comments there could be a legal case in that?
February 05, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Well first, the trust system is unmoderated. The Admins wont help you, they wont even remove negative feedback from themselves. Second, Slander/Defamation is an incredibly tough subject to sue over. I dont think there is a possible situation where the owners of a forum could get sued over a comment one of its users makes. There are a lot of "controversial" forums that have very unpopular opinions, and they are protected by freedom of speech. There was a site I remember playing around on where their goal was to get sued by PEZ, so they had their members make offensive videos. The winner was a video submission about how Hitler invented PEZ and they were originally colorful cyanide tablets used as extermination tools. The site got a letter by PEZ asking them to take it down, of which they didn't and that was the end of that.
Also, think about what would happen when a similar situation happens on Ebay. Ebay is actually a financial institution and they have no liability over what people leave for feedback. They just ban your account if you cause issues to them. Technically, if there was any real liability in having your account open here, the admins would just ban you and the entire thing would be over.
Also, think about what would happen when a similar situation happens on Ebay. Ebay is actually a financial institution and they have no liability over what people leave for feedback. They just ban your account if you cause issues to them. Technically, if there was any real liability in having your account open here, the admins would just ban you and the entire thing would be over.
February 05, 2014, 12:29:36 PM
why do i need to prove that i am me? i have done nothing wrong.. on the loan threads where i asked about a loan i offered to provide screenshots or anything the lender wanted to see, again hardly characteristics of a scammer. if i were trying to scam id have some dodgy photoshopped screenshot of like 1 thing and only mention providing a screenshot of whatever that was.. by saying i can provide whatever they want it means they can choose and i dont know what they will choose so if i was a scammer i would have to either be super quick or id have had to steal multiple accounts from a single person all across the net.
February 05, 2014, 12:23:09 PM
it probably wouldnt if you had an obscure usename however mine are my initials and are used on various other sites and forums either exactly as it is here or with a car model suffix after them so negative comments and such here can potentially follow me around the net. this is also another reason why i wouldnt be scamming people..
but you saying that these are your initials does not proof that these are really your initials, maybe you just want to blame something on someone with these initials. everyone could have registered with that nickname.
proof that you are you.
February 05, 2014, 12:14:38 PM
it probably wouldnt if you had an obscure usename however mine are my initials and are used on various other sites and forums either exactly as it is here or with a car model suffix after them so negative comments and such here can potentially follow me around the net. this is also another reason why i wouldnt be scamming people..
anyway this whole thing was about paypal and paypal is shit for BTC related purchases as no one will trust it. i was only looking originally to hopefully buy a little BTC but as anyone whos been here more than like a week knows, no one in their right mind is going to deal with paypal. initially i did not know the paypal scamming was as bad as it seems to be judging by what people have been saying about it. once i realised i havent a hope in hell of buying BTC that way i then looked for a loan to do me until my virwox limit was lifted (approx 2 days time from now) as i have been using virwox to buy BTC for a week while i await a pin code from my bank to allow me to activate my phone as an authentication method for adding payees to my online banking so i can buy BTC from markets like bittylicious which probably would also get me more BTC for my money as virwox charge lots of fees on transactions as does paypal so say 50gbp going into virwox from paypal would come out in BTC equivalent of maybe 46-48gbp whereas if i buy on a market its safe and there are no middle men like paypal and virwox to tap you for fees on all the transactions between putting paypal money in and getting BTC out the other end.
i also just learned what escrow is and how it works, seems like a worthwhile thing to get onboard with as if a trusted middle man is holding both parties stuff then neither party can scam the other which would make life soooo much easier.
anyway this whole thing was about paypal and paypal is shit for BTC related purchases as no one will trust it. i was only looking originally to hopefully buy a little BTC but as anyone whos been here more than like a week knows, no one in their right mind is going to deal with paypal. initially i did not know the paypal scamming was as bad as it seems to be judging by what people have been saying about it. once i realised i havent a hope in hell of buying BTC that way i then looked for a loan to do me until my virwox limit was lifted (approx 2 days time from now) as i have been using virwox to buy BTC for a week while i await a pin code from my bank to allow me to activate my phone as an authentication method for adding payees to my online banking so i can buy BTC from markets like bittylicious which probably would also get me more BTC for my money as virwox charge lots of fees on transactions as does paypal so say 50gbp going into virwox from paypal would come out in BTC equivalent of maybe 46-48gbp whereas if i buy on a market its safe and there are no middle men like paypal and virwox to tap you for fees on all the transactions between putting paypal money in and getting BTC out the other end.
i also just learned what escrow is and how it works, seems like a worthwhile thing to get onboard with as if a trusted middle man is holding both parties stuff then neither party can scam the other which would make life soooo much easier.
February 05, 2014, 12:02:08 PM
Quote
Under Article 10(2) of the Convention, the protection of the reputation of others is a legitimate ground for restricting the right to freedom of expression. Libel and slander are legal claims that protect an individual’s reputation against defamation. An individual is defamed when a person publishes to a third party words or matter containing an untrue imputation against his or her reputation.
Does that even count on forums like this? no one really knows who you are.
February 05, 2014, 11:45:51 AM
i never said i would have any luck, however, where in the TOS upon registration did it say that all new members are guilty and to be ridiculed and labelled scammers until proven innocent? surely you wait until someone has actually done something wrong before branding them a thief?
and no, one single bad rep isnt the end of the world to him but for a newbie that basically means not a single person will trade with you and even then if you do get some people to trade with you it will take months/years to become borderline trustworthy in peoples eyes and even after that there will still be a lovely little negative there claiming your a scammer. im not even looking to buy or get a loan of BTC anymore because its been a couple days already and my virwox account will have its limits lifted by the weekend so i can just wait.. my reason for wanting to either buy or get a loan of BTC was so i could carry on buying GHS on cex.io until my virwox limit was lifted as i was using virwox as a crutch to get me by until i have my bank account set up so i can buy from a market such as bittylicious and in just about every thread or reply of mine regarding potentially buying BTC or getting a loan of BTC i have stated this. regarding loans i have offered/been willing to give collateral of some form as well, hardly tactics of a scammer..
and big whoop someone stole 50 million.. if the people lending/selling to him werent complete idiots that wouldnt have happened. im a newbie but do you see me getting scammed? no because im not stupid and i can see how many other newbies are either being scammed or are scamming people themselves. by all means label scammers as scammers, ill even help but you cant say someone is a scammer because they havent scammed anyone but you think they are going to. thats like putting someone in jail because they might go out and murder someone next week.. you cant do that shit..
why i dont register a new account is because:
A - this is a username i use elsewhere so negative rep here may have knock on effects elsewhere when people google me if this is not rectified
B - if i did create another account that would make me look like a scammer if anyone found out
and no, one single bad rep isnt the end of the world to him but for a newbie that basically means not a single person will trade with you and even then if you do get some people to trade with you it will take months/years to become borderline trustworthy in peoples eyes and even after that there will still be a lovely little negative there claiming your a scammer. im not even looking to buy or get a loan of BTC anymore because its been a couple days already and my virwox account will have its limits lifted by the weekend so i can just wait.. my reason for wanting to either buy or get a loan of BTC was so i could carry on buying GHS on cex.io until my virwox limit was lifted as i was using virwox as a crutch to get me by until i have my bank account set up so i can buy from a market such as bittylicious and in just about every thread or reply of mine regarding potentially buying BTC or getting a loan of BTC i have stated this. regarding loans i have offered/been willing to give collateral of some form as well, hardly tactics of a scammer..
and big whoop someone stole 50 million.. if the people lending/selling to him werent complete idiots that wouldnt have happened. im a newbie but do you see me getting scammed? no because im not stupid and i can see how many other newbies are either being scammed or are scamming people themselves. by all means label scammers as scammers, ill even help but you cant say someone is a scammer because they havent scammed anyone but you think they are going to. thats like putting someone in jail because they might go out and murder someone next week.. you cant do that shit..
why i dont register a new account is because:
A - this is a username i use elsewhere so negative rep here may have knock on effects elsewhere when people google me if this is not rectified
B - if i did create another account that would make me look like a scammer if anyone found out
February 05, 2014, 11:06:12 AM
pirateat40 stole over $50 MILLION (US dollars) worth of Bitcoins. We know his name, SSN, address, everything... and only two things happened to him, and one is jack. What makes you think that you'll have any luck bringing Vod to "justice" over a cautionary rep rating on a free forum account you created with 2 mouse clicks?
February 05, 2014, 10:30:18 AM
Why don't you just register a new account? 
This will probably be your best bet as your account isn't even a week old, but hopefully you can get things sorted with vod.
February 05, 2014, 09:58:28 AM
Why don't you just register a new account?
February 05, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
hardly.. he is a douche for what he has done.
February 05, 2014, 09:39:23 AM
yes i know that it can be dredged up from forum server/backups or whatever but all comments were directly because of his actions. also claiming someone is basically a thief is a bit worse than a few fat jokes..
im not wanting to argue with you or other members as that would only serve to further damage a reputation i was previously trying to build. put yourself in my shoes.. your new here and someone decides to say you will scam people with no factual evidence, not even anything suggesting you might scam someone.. they just blatantly say you are going to scam people and you are a scammer. would you sit there and take it?
i had thought about simply not using this account and making a new one to start from scratch but then if anyone found out then i would automatically be labelled a scammer so i must either:
A - get the problem rectified
B - resign myself to probably never being able to trade here
C - leave and find another similar forum though his rep could follow me unless i use a different name
i dont see why i should have to go running away with my tail between my legs when i have done nothing wrong apart from some name calling which i openly admitted was stupid of me after the fact.
im not wanting to argue with you or other members as that would only serve to further damage a reputation i was previously trying to build. put yourself in my shoes.. your new here and someone decides to say you will scam people with no factual evidence, not even anything suggesting you might scam someone.. they just blatantly say you are going to scam people and you are a scammer. would you sit there and take it?
i had thought about simply not using this account and making a new one to start from scratch but then if anyone found out then i would automatically be labelled a scammer so i must either:
A - get the problem rectified
B - resign myself to probably never being able to trade here
C - leave and find another similar forum though his rep could follow me unless i use a different name
i dont see why i should have to go running away with my tail between my legs when i have done nothing wrong apart from some name calling which i openly admitted was stupid of me after the fact.
Please sue him, I want to see this outcome. You trolling other threads calling vod a douche isn't helping your "case" one bit. It appears you are the one instigating now.
February 05, 2014, 09:19:00 AM
yes i know that it can be dredged up from forum server/backups or whatever but all comments were directly because of his actions. also claiming someone is basically a thief is a bit worse than a few fat jokes..
im not wanting to argue with you or other members as that would only serve to further damage a reputation i was previously trying to build. put yourself in my shoes.. your new here and someone decides to say you will scam people with no factual evidence, not even anything suggesting you might scam someone.. they just blatantly say you are going to scam people and you are a scammer. would you sit there and take it?
i had thought about simply not using this account and making a new one to start from scratch but then if anyone found out then i would automatically be labelled a scammer so i must either:
A - get the problem rectified
B - resign myself to probably never being able to trade here
C - leave and find another similar forum though his rep could follow me unless i use a different name
i dont see why i should have to go running away with my tail between my legs when i have done nothing wrong apart from some name calling which i openly admitted was stupid of me after the fact.
im not wanting to argue with you or other members as that would only serve to further damage a reputation i was previously trying to build. put yourself in my shoes.. your new here and someone decides to say you will scam people with no factual evidence, not even anything suggesting you might scam someone.. they just blatantly say you are going to scam people and you are a scammer. would you sit there and take it?
i had thought about simply not using this account and making a new one to start from scratch but then if anyone found out then i would automatically be labelled a scammer so i must either:
A - get the problem rectified
B - resign myself to probably never being able to trade here
C - leave and find another similar forum though his rep could follow me unless i use a different name
i dont see why i should have to go running away with my tail between my legs when i have done nothing wrong apart from some name calling which i openly admitted was stupid of me after the fact.
February 05, 2014, 09:05:17 AM
i said nothing about airtight, however, under UK and US law and probably most other countries as well you can be prosecuted for defamation (lidel particularly online). my grounds are as mentioned here plus that my username is the same on many other sites/forums so anyone searching my name will then find bad information about me when previously there was none which could have knock on impacts on me and my business elsewhere. and BTW my ex gf of 5 years had a law degree so i have some idea of what im talking about regarding UK law at the very least nevermind already having a solicitor and barrister representing myself and my current gf against the western health and social care trust so i can easily get advice from them as well.
@KWH, fair enough but where is the evidence of any name calling? i have every interaction with Vod saved so if he removes or edits anything to try and cover his ass i have the originals.
@KWH, fair enough but where is the evidence of any name calling? i have every interaction with Vod saved so if he removes or edits anything to try and cover his ass i have the originals.
Selective memory? That'll work out well in court. You aren't the only one that saves things, best you keep that in mind. Erase all you want but there are still records available.
February 05, 2014, 08:59:11 AM
i said nothing about airtight, however, under UK and US law and probably most other countries as well you can be prosecuted for defamation (lidel particularly online). my grounds are as mentioned here plus that my username is the same on many other sites/forums so anyone searching my name will then find bad information about me when previously there was none which could have knock on impacts on me and my business elsewhere. and BTW my ex gf of 5 years had a law degree so i have some idea of what im talking about regarding UK law at the very least nevermind already having a solicitor and barrister representing myself and my current gf against the western health and social care trust so i can easily get advice from them as well.
@KWH, fair enough but where is the evidence of any name calling? i have every interaction with Vod saved so if he removes or edits anything to try and cover his ass i have the originals.
@KWH, fair enough but where is the evidence of any name calling? i have every interaction with Vod saved so if he removes or edits anything to try and cover his ass i have the originals.
February 05, 2014, 08:53:27 AM
i cant be prosecuted for name calling..
im not crying, im simply requesting that unfair defamatory feedback that will harm my potential to trade here be removed as i am willing to take it further if necessary.
i dont really care if you want to trade with me or not.. its your loss.
im not crying, im simply requesting that unfair defamatory feedback that will harm my potential to trade here be removed as i am willing to take it further if necessary.
i dont really care if you want to trade with me or not.. its your loss.
Oh? Look under hate crimes or are you selectively choosing what laws will work for you? My loss?? LOL Sure it is, sure it is.
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