Topic: Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread - page 11. (Read 37978 times)

Q. What is the relation of MEW and the core team?
A. Core team exists by their own right, chooses their members, and they have defined their role is to develop the Monero software.

MEW exists as a voluntary group of people who own XMR, and is bound to accept more members based on this criterion. Because the core team members also own XMR, they are eligible and welcome to join MEW, and some have been interested in doing so.

MEW will concentrate on the peripheral/economic aspects of the coin infrastructure, and the people in the community, leaving the core team more time and resources to concentrate on the development. MEW will also support the donation address.

MEW only has consultative power over the core team. This means that the core team has no obligation to follow the MEW decisions. That being said, since some core members (as individual) have a sizeable part of the votes, a MEW decision has high probability to be accepted by the core team.

Sent another 110 XMR, putting my total at 210.
Payment ID: 3d2823bf409f6b550bdb5d42511de0da4a1fc0950c6a71ca94be4cc12af93c05
Q

sent: 12 XMR
payment ID: b16f57ac38c846506a5aa76126afea114207d03d9c89bd79927cde194f2dc3e7
irc: vuduchyld

sure hope I did that all correctly!

sent : 10 xmr
Payment-ID: 34A4864FFBBF05E2BA7C6C7C28188D2C6B1CC4D95081C6A71F6D0D3627C228A9
irc: owlcatz

First MEW voting round has just started. It is being done here in Bitcointalk, because of convenience. The subject of voting is an Internal & External Communications Strategy for midterm. The first Proposals concern whether we should decide to stay in Bitcointalk platform for now, or try to move out of it as soon as possible.

Non-members may read the discussion but not comment.

I am excited that the MEW is now put to discussion and vote for the first time! This is a great milestone

Thanks. Changed to hopefully remove the bias, yet leave what I see it as an unquestionable factual difference (when a coin IS nearly fully mined, it IS seen as a premine, vs. SOME ppl currently in the forums when Monero has 0.0001% of world population as users, when emission curve is changed so that 20% first happens quickly than 80% rest, see it as a premine).

Hopefully my months and months of bashing altcoins have not gone to waste, and have solidly established me as an opponent of all sorts premine. It includes situations when a small premine must be accepted to avoid a bigger one. As you implied, we are not comparing holiday destinations. Rather all alternatives are a little risky, yet a coin that cannot live through dangerous times has no desire, nor right, nor chance, to live.



Everything is a premine if you arrive to the scene only when 60-70-80% (or whatever is your preferred %) has been mined.

Otherwise good point, I also haven't seen such a mechanism that would actually work.

Let's close this one here in MEW thread. My next post is about the topic I selected for the first to be voted upon.

despites that the argument #2 does not make sense. monero can by definition not be a premine if we do not change the fundamentals. Additionally I think we do not need to talk about the visibility of monero on bitcointalk (for the good and for the bad ).

we all would like to design an emmission rate which is perfectly fitting to the rate of adoption. I think this is neither economically nor technically possible without a central institution

I'd also like to add:

While I am (cautiously, after we've gauged community consensus) a proponent of emission rate change, this:


... is a bit of a loaded way to frame the discussion (as in: it introduces the question and seems to favor a conclusion at the same time).

Anyway, it's a major and uncontroversially controversial topic, I'm sure everyone agrees. Hoping to see a mature discussion on this topic in here/other MEW channels. Also, for once, I'm glad it's taking place in a moderated thread. The previous "discussion" in the free-for-all thread was just a shouting match between who could dump his xmr faster in case the holy protocol is changed :/

Can the list of MEW joiners ( and irc access) please be updated before such vote?
thanks

One point of clarification here. The emission while somewhat fast, is still only half the speed of BCN. So while there are risks of some sort of comparison, it isn't a direct one.

MEW - Operational Executive speaking

1. The official documents

MEW has the following documents:
- Articles of Association (AA)
- Initial Decisions with Nominations (ID)
- membership list with ranks and votes (Votelist)

Furthermore:
- Every voting will be made a memo that lists the voters and the result.
- Every Executive (and preferably everyone else who actively works in MEW) will summarize his actions periodically.

To have all these important things posted duly, we'd need a bulletin board. The logical place for such a board is this forum. Possible ways for finding the board are to:
- have it as a thread with very little other content (hard, since interesting content draws discussion)
- post it only in the name of MEW main account, so that it can be searched by poster (not all do this habitually and may miss it).

IRC should have a feature for listing files, also a Google Drive and own website, even push email-list are possibilities. I invite all members to discussion concerning these. We want to select more than one, but not an overwhelming number of official channels for one-way information. Then we need 1-2 channels for group discussion. I am not at all sure that the IRC selected is an all-purpose tool. For discussions that require dispensing of thought, a forum would be better. Luckily there is a no-troll Monero Forum already available, I have been told. The management of user rights is a pain anyway, since we are talking about a large number of users.


2. MEW prong #1 - Providing a stake-based voting system

We are currently getting the basics right for voting. If something needs to be passed quickly, the rules allow 51% of all votes to do it in no time at all. If the issue is both important, popular, and in a rush, we don't have a problem with reaching a legitimate conclusion, but the voting experience for most of the small members will be quite tough as they are simply ignored once the required number of votes is reached.

What we do need now, is the tools for fact- and votepower-based discussion. IRC constrains the expression of facts due to the format. Forums should need moderation in the order of posting etc. to make the discussion go on smoothly. (Even ordinary meetings have had chairman always, there is a role that needs to be fulfilled if something is to be achieved.) Then the voting itself has several options how to make it happen.

As soon as the general forum for discussion is generally available, there will be at least one of the proposals up for vote.


3. MEW prong #2 - Providing a decentralized yet coordinated power platform for ideas to enhance Monero economy

This also needs much nurturing. What we are doing here is not according to the way that everyone has been conditioned to do since childhood. Many members have approached me with offers to help in whatever is possible, which is good, but currently I am not that much up to my task that I could have given them the work. With our Agora program incubator running, it will be easier for these people to do something.

Some have approached me with a specific peripheral project, and I have tried to direct them to work with others. This has caused even resentment. Folks, please, I cannot work in every project, more likely in no project at all. I would be much more content if I could do all my current responsibilities instead of taking projects where I would not be a good match really.

I wish (just for balancing the previous examples) that some people would also grasp much more power than the average guy, and would form strong groups inside MEW to push their agendas and projects. This would energize all to be more vigilant. But please do this activism only in connection with the increase of our "governance tools" of chats, forums, voting systems etc. Trying to pull to different directions when no such systems are in place is damaging and destructive.

To grasp the magnitude of change, the previously 7-membered core team now has a helper named MEW with over 50 members. Organizing such a bunch of people in any school of organizing though available, is not easy, nor happens overnight. But it will happen sooner than you think, and yield surprisingly good results.


4. My doings past and future

- I will be putting things for vote as soon as the voting system is reasonably ready
- David is appointed to be my hotel manager in Malla, soon 2 other guys who are interested in cryptocurrency join him
- The XMR emission change cat is out of the bag and situation is causing confusion and price/adoption weakness until it's resolutely resolved.
1) No one is proposing to increase emission, that's just FUD. The only proposal is to make the curve slower, but ending in the same number
2) If emission is not changed, and adoption does not increase quickly, XMR will be perceived a premine in 2 years
3) If emission is changed, XMR will be perceived premine now, albeit likely will a smaller % of relevant people
4) Trolls feast on the topic, saying "doomed if you do, doomed if you don't". Forget them! Just read the Initial Arguments (being prepared) from both sides, and take part of the discussion, and vote, and act responsibly.
5) The economic majority decision is most likely the better one, and will lead to best adoption in the future. (In the extreme parlance, would you like 1/3 of the holders to sell their coins? No, of course not. So why do you insist on taking the risk that 2/3 do it??!?) Current price has already discounted the worst situation which is continued uncertainty and trolls keeping us from taking action. Let's not let them!
6) No matter which way the vote goes, I will continue as a large owner of XMR. No other coin comes even close to XMR and BTC in overall evaluation, and I have no desires to own anything else except them. Perfect is the enemy of best, and by sticking to perfect only (instead of best available), I would have never done anything worthwhile and profitable.  
- Partly due to BTC weakness that has decimated the purchasing power of my net worth, I will seriously consider sending a bulletin to my list, with the intention to make OTC deals and commissions. I have said this several times already, but not done it. Last time I sent was more than a year ago. If I do, and mention XMR, the liquidity impact to the market with hardly any asks will be huge.
- Please ask me if there is anything!

My mission for the next 48 hours:
- Make the MEW internal communication more functional and open the first thing for vote

Hi,

sent : 20 xmr
id     : 2f75aa26d008bb680f6fc896f7607544b109ef1157327191cafd3ae41b81eacd
irc    :  papa_lazzarou

Actually it was a bale of high quality hygiene paper which I never received.  After giving up hope of ever receiving this most useful item I donated a little more.

So at this time I will pay the minimum required to join MEW.

amount: 10 XMR
payment ID: f1cbdafd7eef6a87f81657504a0feef81fb273a18ec85b86347da8b4ee5aa2be
irc nick: nioc

amount: 300 xmr
tx id: f558cf832cb5eba52aa659d87d9f5bf98068aea571d1dcca77bbd436b1bba7b4
irc: oda_krell

I think this is an important topic for discussion, especially when it comes to hacking/fraud.

Also including how we go about voting. I understand for now we can use this thread/forum, but what about longer term.

One of my concerns is always getting hacked, what would I need to do to prove who I am and get my voting rights back as a member of MEW?

Is there a way to incorporate the Monero wallet and Open Alias to help prevent this? Register a web-domain and get my open alias setup so that I vote through it? It might be easier to prevent a theft of an account that is owned as a web-domain than it is to prevent being hacked on BTCT, plus does 2FA even exist on this forum?

Just some of my initial concerns

I have registered on IRC as per instructions:

irc : McHaggis

I'm making the domain http://www.monujo.com/ available to MEW should we decide that it is useful to any of our initiatives.
If decide to checkout the domain/link, please ignore the current redirect (or not, knock yourself out).
Cheers!

It is each member to decide. So far, everyone chose persona, as you can see in the Member list.

Everything is denominated in XMR. The core team may pay in XMR, BTC or fiat, depending on what the contractor or service wishes. Some early days bounties from the core team are known to have been paid in XMR, whilst the contractor could have chosen otherwise.

Alright, let's give this a shot...

Question:

- Is MEW tied to forum persona, or RL identity? I'm alright with signing up with the former, but not the latter.

- Membership and voting weight is tied to donation, right? As denominated in XMR, correct? I know we're in this entire crypto project (not just XMR, I mean) to bootstrap distributed currencies, but as units of account, not even BTC performs that well, let alone XMR. Seems to me that, apart from idealistic reasons, USD denomination would have made more sense. Possible though that this was discussed already and a conclusion was reached, so the above is more of a question than a negative judgement.

Great stuff. Hopefully we can get to 5000 fairly soon.

In terms of priorities, I personally view the establishment of a rock solid, and easy to use GUI as most important for wider community adoption and confidence. Establishing something like coinbase for XMR would be good (possibly in collaboration). Just my 0.02 XMR.