Topic: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here (Read 3638 times)

Just for the record, I hold no XMR and really have no strong feelings about the coin either way, but we are talking about the right to financial privacy which some people believe is a good thing for reasons that are analogous to why free speech in a good thing.  So it is a relevant discussion when it comes to XMR, and I don't even understand what you are trying to say when you say Snowden was looking at the "big picture".  The scope and scale is irrelevant if we are considering whether a certain freedom is good or bad simply on principal.

Any time you give people more freedom, there are going to be people who abuse that freedom for nefarious purposes.  The positive value that a society gains by being able to freely speak and exchange ideas with others so clearly outweighs any negatives, that freedom of speech is held sacred by most modern societies, America especially so.

Of course we know that the banking system is heavily monitored, which is why people who believe in the freedom to have financial anonymity are developing anonymous solutions like XMR.  If you don't believe the freedom to financial anonymity is a good thing, then you should also be advocating for the removal of cash from society so that all financial transactions can be on record.  If you think that is a dumb idea, then you are saying it is acceptable to sometimes have transactions on record and sometimes not.  If there is nothing wrong with financial anonymity for local, in person transactions, why should it be any different online?  Especially when you consider that we are living in a highly connected world where an increasing amount of our lives and relationships, both personal and professional, exist solely online.  If you believe that the concept of cash in it of itself is a good thing, then why isn't digital cash good?

It remains to be seen if things such as XMR will do more good than harm.  The value of such freedom is not as plainly obvious nor as widely accepted as freedom of speech.  I find the technology and the questions raised by it interesting and I will always prefer to err on the side of giving too much freedom vs too little freedom, so my opinion is that I support these advancements until I have a good reason not to.  Even if I were to never exercise the freedom to have financial anonymity, the idea of a world where that freedom isn't an option and all my financial transactions are forced to be on record and kept in a database somewhere does not sit well with me.

3. And many say it is not a value but a threat. What is most important to the most people is the blockchain and how the transactions are secured by it, not the balances nor transactions. Your point is minor/major for some so not a valid argument.

1. I know how Monero works, you don't need to explain it.

2. Whether someone is broke or not has nothing to do with this, just seems like a sad attempt at ad hominem.

3. I've gone over this, many people will tell you that the ability to view transactions and balances in the blockchain is a value to crypto

4. You're generalizing privacy. Yes privacy as a whole is important to the average person, but this isn't privacy as a whole. It's a very specific and small part of the privacy that people like Snowden talked about.

Except that the free speech comparison isn't relevant to XMR at all.

The whole privacy and free speech argument being used is irrelevant. Hell when Snowden said that he was looking at the big picture, not the VERY very small piece that XMR focuses on.

We've known for years that the banking system has been heavily monitored and in some cases that's a good thing. You gotta take the good with the bad.

Have you made a research what is relevant for an average guy or on what bases your claim privacy is irrelevant for an average guy?
You see, Monero is like digital cash. You cannot track the transaction or at least it is hard to do if you do not voluntarily want to show your transactions.
If you are broke, then perhaps privacy doesn't matter so much but immediately you have some funds you have an incentive not to reveal it to anyone. You see, showing your wealth just attracts thieves and parasites.

Look at what I said about the so-called bad guys. They are not relevant to the average person, meaning XMR or any other of the coins like Monero aren't relevant to average person

You're point about balances being public isn't true at all. Some people believe that one of the big advantages of Crypto is being able to see transactions and balances with the blockchain.

The situation you described is a choice between two rather impractical banks, and doesn't seek out the third option of finding a bank that offers the best from both worlds.

This level of anonymity is not relevant to the average person.  If we further expand the free speech comparison, free speech is not relevant to the average person either. 

Even if society all of a sudden stopped valuing the concept of free speech, there are few who would espouse views so universally abhorred by society that it would be deemed reasonable to have them silenced.  NAMBLA comes to mind as an organization that sickens most people.  Free speech protects their right to exist but the value of free speech is so high that we accept it. You gotta take the good with the bad.

It's the same with money.  Most people don't have a reason to care that their finances can me monitored so easily by the government.  If our money and financial transactions could be made completely anonymous and hidden, it is going to make life a lot easier for those who profit off of child pornography.  That fact doesn't discount the value of financial anonymity to a truly free society.  You gotta take the good with the bad.

Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public.

Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use?

Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation.

 
 
You must explained why Monero is so great. 
 
We finally have the freedom of money again. 
 
This is true freedom.

I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin"

Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction.

 
 
"I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally.  I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ."
 
That's how fucking stupid you sound.

The reason Monero is such a clusterfuck...
Is because they started with the ByteCoin code which Peter Todd described as "atrocious".

Major design decisions must be made at the START of a complex project...
One is usually better off (a) coding from scratch than (b) cleaning up a nightmarish codebase.

Monero chose (b) and will be paying the price basically forever...
And, conversely, I doubt BCN will ever be reliable enough to be a major currency (I ran it recently on various PCs).

ByteCoin is basically a Pump... no one uses it.... and there is no volume relative to it's cap.

Now that you mention it...if the Monero devs ever put together a lite and/or Web wallet that works seamlessly on a smart phone, it would make a durn good tip app. Imagine "zapping" a waitress with a Monero tip...

It's not really anymore important than it was 10-20 years ago.

Having some privacy is a good thing, but the majority of the so called bad guys have little to no effect on the average person. Not to mention that any amount privacy needed by the average person is already available in much larger and more stable markets.


Also, a bit of an off topic point, but you're just getting ripped off if you tip an uber driver in ANY currency.

Because you don't want bad guys (mobsters, hackers, thiefs, business competitors, spying agencies, my wife, ect) to steal or extort money or information from you. Even if you are following the law, you still don't want your income public record--so uber drivers using bitcoin QR codes for tips is probably a bad idea, and the more money involved, the worse of an idea it becomes.

Why is anonymity so important these days?

Monero can offer complete transparency with the view key:
https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/628632960565166080

I also think you may want to take some time to understand why privacy should matter to us all:
https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/626407810998218752

I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption.

There you go!