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Topic: Monero most likely coin to challenge Bitcoin - page 5. (Read 5017 times)

sr. member
Activity: 514
Merit: 258
September 13, 2016, 04:43:45 AM
#24

Here's a few reasons why it isn't:

 • Monero is screwed up from conception in that it trashes the very thing that makes bitcoin valuable - blockchain transparency

 • If you've ever used it in its native form, it feels like its been written by an overexcited twelve year old who just learned C++ last month

 • Dark markets like mainstream money, not their own "Dark Market" monopoly money. The best use case is therefore as a transitory laundering facility for BTC

 • That makes it a "tech stock", not a monetary asset, the difference being that one provides a technologically oriented service and the other is a store of value

 • That in turn gives it a limited shelf life because though the "tech" may take years to develop, it only takes seconds to reproduce. Therefore, if you're not the money, just the laundering service, then you're toast as soon as the "next great thing" comes along


- nope, blockchaintransparancy is/was a means, not an end... Blockchain's purpose is to be a ledger that makes sure there are no double spends, that there's no shenanigans going on... Whether it's transparent or not, it's just there to maintain the integrity of the system...
- I used it, it totally doesn't feel that way, but the way you FEEL about something is a bit of a subjective argument wouldn't you say...
- Well, at least that's a use case isn't it, and rather a large one... And again, I feel this is a very subjective statement on your part, how do you know what  dark markets LIKE. Again you're projecting your own (possible flawed) subjective opinion to try to make your point...
- Since this statement is based on your previous (subjective) statement I consider it void... Sorry to say, but it's starting to look like you're really trying hard to find a stick to hit a dog (in this case the monero-fluffy-dog)...
- Again, because this is based on your previous subjective assumptions, this statement has no merit at all...

All in all a very poor argumentation based on your subjective feelings/assumptions, but I know where you're coming from, so I wouldn't expect anything else, you're most obviously biased against monero... when one is biased, one seldomly uses rational argumentation...
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
September 13, 2016, 04:34:36 AM
#23
I don't think you understand the concept of cryptocurrency as "money" very well. It is not a bank account and "blockchain transparency" is not the same thing as "financial transparency".

In as much as "block chain transparency" is not the same thing as "financial transparency", then you agree with me that "block chain transparency" is only a (naive) tool to guarantee correct origin (mining according to the rules) and no double spend of a coin.  If that proof can be delivered without explicit transparency, with cryptographic proofs, then that's just as good, right ?

Now, the problem with block chain transparency is exactly that it leads, unfortunately, to financial transparency, by chain analysis.  As such, block chain transparency is no good.  It is somewhat the equivalent of "showing my private key" to prove that I have the private key.  It is a sure, but naive way to prove something.  If I can prove you that I have the private key, without revealing it, with a cryptographic proof, that's much better I would think.   This is essentially what cryptonote, and also zerocash, do: to give you a PROOF that this coin has not been double spend, and was of correct origin, without revealing exactly HOW.  If I can sign any message you give me with my private key, and you can verify that, then that is just as good proof that I have that private key, than when I show it to you explicitly, no ?  What is important for you is to know that I'm the owner of that private key, not the fact of seeing that private key (which brings much more problems).  If I have a block chain that can prove that I have coins that were transmitted to me via correct transactions, and originated in a correct mining, then that is good enough, without you having to know exactly what transactions and exactly what origin, which would reveal too much other stuff, right ?

There IS an argument for block chain transparency, but that is exactly financial transparency.  In that case, block chain transparency is used as a means to obtain financial transparency.  But if you are in favour of that, again, I ask you whether you publish your bank account transactions also in the public.  Probably you don't.  Some people insisting on financial transparency may be in favour of block chain transparency - so that you can block thieves' money, that you can boycott certain merchants/exchanges and their customers, and that law enforcement can see what you do with your crypto money (and your boss and neighbour too).

But if you are not favourable to that, then there's no reason to be in favour of a transparent block chain, because chain analysis can do all that, with some effort.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 13, 2016, 03:40:26 AM
#22

I have not had any coins in a long time.
I got like 2 i think that were delisted 2 or more years ago.
And the rest i sold off and gave away.
I gave away my BITCOIN.



What a waste of your time to be on this forum.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188
September 13, 2016, 01:25:24 AM
#21

Transparency on the block chain was a means, not a goal

LoL ! Dream on  Cheesy

I don't think you understand the concept of cryptocurrency as "money" very well. It is not a bank account and "blockchain transparency" is not the same thing as "financial transparency".
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
September 13, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
#20

Here's a few reasons why it isn't:

 • Monero is screwed up from conception in that it trashes the very thing that makes bitcoin valuable - blockchain transparency

That's a funny statement.  Nobody wants financial *transparency* (otherwise, show me where you've put up in public all your bank accounts....).  The transparency in bitcoin was simply ONE way to verify that spending a coin was legit, that is, that there was no double spend, and that its origin was "a real coin according to the agreed-upon rules of creating coins".

As long as these two aspects are guaranteed, no double spend, and no counterfeiting, the monetary token is valid.  It is because Satoshi didn't have a better idea, that he set up a system where you can follow every coin from creation, through every transaction, to your wallet: it is ONE way to prove the two fundamental properties: legit and no double spend, by showing this succession of transmissions in the open.

There have been invented, afterwards, more sophisticated ways to prove the same.  Cryptonote is one, zerocash is another.  They guarantee you cryptographically that a certain wallet content derives from correctly created coins, and have never been double-spend.  That's good enough.  This is cryptography at its best.

Compare it to the following situation:

A document, containing a public key, has a signature that can be verified with said public key.  This document is public and well-known for years, but nobody knows who is the author.

One day, I reveal myself as the author.  How do I prove this ?

The bitcoin way would be: I show my private key on a TV show, and I show you that with that private key, I can reproduce the signature.   So I have shown people that I was indeed, the one who had signed that document.  Problem is, now my private key is out, and all *other* documents I also signed that way, can be claimed by everybody.

The monero way would be: send me just any message of your likings, and I will produce a signature to it, that can only be provided with my private key.  I send you back the signature ; you can verify it with the public key in the document.

In BOTH CASES I have proved that I possess the private key.  In one method, I simply SHOWED you.  In another method, I produced a PROOF that I have it without revealing it.

Bitcoin vs. monero is similar: in bitcoin, the origin and non-double spending of a coin is shown in the open, hence proving non-double spending and correct origin.  In monero, one PROVES you that the coin was correctly created, and that there EXIST transactions that bring it to my wallet without any double spend, but you simply not see them ; but they are proved.  In the same way that you could not see my private key, but I proved to you that I have it.

Transparency on the block chain was a means, not a goal.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
September 13, 2016, 12:40:29 AM
#19
@Azael
I have no idea what you are implying about me.
I tried to make this shit work long before you all took "scammy" to new levels.
I actually started when there was around 50 coins in total.
I tried.. i really did.
But i seen the future and it looked grim and nasty and i was right.
It played out like i said but maybe a little worse.
I never expected you all to accept ICO cloning.. this blew me away !
You new guys that showed up lowered the bar in Crypto until it was scarping on the ground sparks firing everywhere !

I have not had any coins in a long time.
I got like 2 i think that were delisted 2 or more years ago.
And the rest i sold off and gave away.
I gave away my BITCOIN.
Because you kidiot profiteers shit on BTC when you pull Altcoin scammy bullshit.
In one argument you say it has no effect and not related then when it suits your argument you say the opposite.

You shitcoin (GREED) defenders / supporters shit on Bitcoin each time you defend scammy Altcoin bullshit.
There is no reason to back Bitcoin anymore.
You are ALL hard at work fucking it up.. ALL OF IT !

@Azael
You are piece fitting and making excuses.
You are trying to shoe horn a square peg into around hole.
You are trying to make bad work.. and it won't.

This forum is the hang out of Earth's most stubborn greedy smart yet corrupt and delusional idiots.
You are all far from being real and honest.

Since i started i have been quick to criticize any coin i held.
And i quickly realized i was alone !
Everyone else was working Over-Time making sure their best foot was forward at all times.
What does that tell you ?

I posted a couple topics like 2 years ago telling you all how to fix Crypto in detail.
I said it was your only way out and to fix this train wreck of sinking bullshit.
You chose not to.
You chose to plow forward with even worse antics & shenanigans.
Others have seen the downward spiral and figured why bother saying anything etc.
I tried to help !
In vain of course.. wasting my time and taking abuse for it.

The scene (AKA: the majority in control) need to smarten up or this will continue to get worse.

XMR *ALSO* being used on criminal markets means fuck all.
Who cares..
If anything this solidifies the long term perspective of Bitcoin.
Every person i ever met in real life young & old thought BTC was a drugs & guns ponzi coin thing
..that died years ago (they are surprised it's still *going*)
So who is it that is going to care about XMR ?
The US Fed's ?
Monero idiots.. buckle up you are now on the FBI shitlist LOL

The future holds a whole lot of crazy shocking headlines that will unfold in time.
Wait & see and watch as the cocky get scared and bolt too.
When you all feel confident everyone's lining up to offer services etc for a slice of Greed pie.
But when the crack down happens watch them run LOL

As usual it will be easy for most accounts here to go silent and hide.
I have seen many guys vanish here forever..
legendary
Activity: 1588
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2016, 08:14:52 PM
#18
• Dark markets like mainstream money, not their own "Dark Market" monopoly money.

By this opinion of yours they would've never accepted Bitcoin in the first place but they did. And now they accepted Monero too.

• That makes it a "tech stock", not a monetary asset, the difference being that one provides a technologically oriented service and the other is a store of value

 • That in turn gives it a limited shelf life because though the "tech" may take years to develop, it only takes seconds to reproduce. Therefore, if you're not the money, just the laundering service, then you're toast as soon as the "next great thing" comes along


Entrepreneurs and opportunistic people will fill the fiat gateway and multiple exchange void in the market just like they did Bitcoin and well any other growing currency they can find a worthwhile gap in.

So what you're saying is just that Bitcoin is a little further ahead ecosystem wise. Correct? I absolutely agree. But I wouldn't dismiss every other cryptocurrency on that basis. Many fiat maximalists do that with Bitcoin.


Bitcoin has been very effectively co-opted by government...
It's about as disruptive to the System as apple pie.

When XMR becomes big enough to matter, it will be blown to smithereens...
Live by the botnet... die by a bigger botnet.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 12, 2016, 06:57:59 PM
#17

Many peoples i speak with dont even know bitcoin yet how do u expect monero to even bypass that LOL>


Notice my title says most likely to challenge.

Perhaps you have a better candidate you'd like to share?

yup.. it's not made yet.
problem is a coin needs to exist now for losers to "invest" in ..for profits.

You all show up here and NEED to put REAL money into something.. how else are you going to make REAL money ?


Seems you fit right in since a lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 12, 2016, 06:55:18 PM
#16
• Dark markets like mainstream money, not their own "Dark Market" monopoly money.

By this opinion of yours they would've never accepted Bitcoin in the first place but they did. And now they accepted Monero too.

• That makes it a "tech stock", not a monetary asset, the difference being that one provides a technologically oriented service and the other is a store of value

 • That in turn gives it a limited shelf life because though the "tech" may take years to develop, it only takes seconds to reproduce. Therefore, if you're not the money, just the laundering service, then you're toast as soon as the "next great thing" comes along


Entrepreneurs and opportunistic people will fill the fiat gateway and multiple exchange void in the market just like they did Bitcoin and well any other growing currency they can find a worthwhile gap in.

So what you're saying is just that Bitcoin is a little further ahead ecosystem wise. Correct? I absolutely agree. But I wouldn't dismiss every other cryptocurrency on that basis. Many fiat maximalists do that with Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
September 12, 2016, 05:53:27 PM
#15

Many peoples i speak with dont even know bitcoin yet how do u expect monero to even bypass that LOL>


Notice my title says most likely to challenge.

Perhaps you have a better candidate you'd like to share?

yup.. it's not made yet.
problem is a coin needs to exist now for losers to "invest" in ..for profits.

You all show up here and NEED to put REAL money into something.. how else are you going to make REAL money ?
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188
September 12, 2016, 04:43:47 PM
#14

Here's a few reasons why it isn't:

 • Monero is screwed up from conception in that it trashes the very thing that makes bitcoin valuable - blockchain transparency

 • If you've ever used it in its native form, it feels like its been written by an overexcited twelve year old who just learned C++ last month

 • Dark markets like mainstream money, not their own "Dark Market" monopoly money. The best use case is therefore as a transitory laundering facility for BTC

 • That makes it a "tech stock", not a monetary asset, the difference being that one provides a technologically oriented service and the other is a store of value

 • That in turn gives it a limited shelf life because though the "tech" may take years to develop, it only takes seconds to reproduce. Therefore, if you're not the money, just the laundering service, then you're toast as soon as the "next great thing" comes along
hero member
Activity: 850
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2016, 03:37:13 PM
#13
I believe both Bitcoin and Monero have bright futures. I don't necessarily see them competing with each other.

Bitcoin has never claimed to be anonymous, whereas Monero is private and untraceable. There are many use cases for each coin that overlap, and many which don't overlap. That's the great thing: you can choose which coin you want based on your situation's needs.

For example, where transparency is needed (as in most business transactions), Bitcoin is probably the best choice.

When privacy and untraceability are desired, Monero is the best choice.
sr. member
Activity: 279
Merit: 250
September 12, 2016, 03:02:25 PM
#12
LOL, I'm still waiting for ETH to overtake BTC like was said a few months. In fact, nearly every time a coin with new tech makes it above $5.00 we see a handful of nerds come out of the woodwork proclaiming they've found the next Bitcoin investment of the century.

Too bad there's no way to take the other side of the bet, I'd sell Monero Options to ya all day. (and no I'm not talking about shorting, google selling options)
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1087
September 12, 2016, 12:45:22 PM
#11
there's no point making predictions after a massive pump.

if I remember rightly steemit or whatever was gonna be bitcoin's demise a few weeks back. then etc for a while. I wonder what the next one's gonna be. I will guess that it's whatever coin the maniacs on poloniex decide to descend on next.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1008
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
September 12, 2016, 12:39:19 PM
#10
Challenging bitcoin will be very strong and offensive word to use. Monero seems to get more adoption over comming years but bitcoin is still strong and bitcoin is getting adopted in faster rate than monero. Bitcoin is still king of the cryptos.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 12, 2016, 12:00:10 PM
#9

Many peoples i speak with dont even know bitcoin yet how do u expect monero to even bypass that LOL>


Notice my title says most likely to challenge.

Perhaps you have a better candidate you'd like to share?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2016, 11:55:55 AM
#8
OP give it up, it won't. MAYBE more noticed and used in dark markets by fucking dirtbag scum ppls but this is it i think.

Many peoples i speak with dont even know bitcoin yet how do u expect monero to even bypass that LOL>
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 12, 2016, 11:47:23 AM
#7
lol nah, i don't think so, they have only said that because of the recent pump, which was a pump and dump, they always say it when a good pump happen for an altcoin, it was the case of ethereum and darkcoin and many other, but none will take on bitcoin, they are just clone

Notice my title says most likely to challenge. I don't see ETH or DASH as threats to Bitcoin but Monero brings fundamentals to the table that are actually useful for a crypto economy.

ETH and DASH have legitimacy problems with their history like a HF bailout and a ridiculous distribution respectively.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
September 12, 2016, 11:40:17 AM
#6
Sounds like a pretty dumb reason to me.
Good luck with that.  Cheesy

You have a +$300 billion industry and currency worth $120 million. As more and more use the currency to participate in the $300+ billion industry what do you think will need to happen at some point?

If he says it.. i disagree LOL

Stay on Bitcointalk!
full member
Activity: 297
Merit: 112
PRIVATE AND NOT PREMINED: MONERO, AEON, KARBO
September 12, 2016, 10:42:28 AM
#5
it was the case of ethereum and darkcoin and many other, but none will take on bitcoin, they are just clone
Are you not aware that neither Monero, nor Ethereum are clones of bitcoin?
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