Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it - page 14.

Hazir

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on March 17, 2015, 10:50:08 AM

Quote from: aso118 on March 17, 2015, 10:42:12 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 05:30:13 PM

Just remember some nice talk from Interstella:

"Because he knew how hard it would be to get people to work together to save the species, instead of themselves or their children. Evolution has yet to transcend that simple barrier. We can care deeply, selflessly about those we know. But that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight."

Similarly, it is difficult to let people work together to change the world from fiat money's slavery, since their line of sight seldom extends beyond their salary and profit, not even mention fiat monetary system itself

Fiat money's slavery is not bad at all. We work hard to earn more money, but this is invested in real assets.
If the current monetary system is not going to change in our lifetime, why bother with it?

Lol working hard is a scam. You are working hard and making peanuts so other people work smart/have luck and make millions out of you with 1% of your effort.

That is the sad part. You can be decent hard working man but without right environment and luck you will be probably working like a mule and earning peanuts. But in reality satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment, full effort is full victory. Acquiring money is not ultimate goal of humans.

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Same as religion, monogamy, gender, nationalism, authority obedience, capitalism, and so on. If you take a person's mind, they will give you their body.

johnyj

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Quote from: aso118 on March 17, 2015, 10:42:12 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 05:30:13 PM

Just remember some nice talk from Interstella:

"Because he knew how hard it would be to get people to work together to save the species, instead of themselves or their children. Evolution has yet to transcend that simple barrier. We can care deeply, selflessly about those we know. But that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight."

Similarly, it is difficult to let people work together to change the world from fiat money's slavery, since their line of sight seldom extends beyond their salary and profit, not even mention fiat monetary system itself

Fiat money's slavery is not bad at all. We work hard to earn more money, but this is invested in real assets.
If the current monetary system is not going to change in our lifetime, why bother with it?

Exactly, and many people might have a similar view as you. You'd rather working 20 years to get a house, and contribute enough interest to bank so that they can also buy a house with the flip of a pen

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: aso118 on March 17, 2015, 10:42:12 AM

Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 05:30:13 PM

Just remember some nice talk from Interstella:

"Because he knew how hard it would be to get people to work together to save the species, instead of themselves or their children. Evolution has yet to transcend that simple barrier. We can care deeply, selflessly about those we know. But that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight."

Similarly, it is difficult to let people work together to change the world from fiat money's slavery, since their line of sight seldom extends beyond their salary and profit, not even mention fiat monetary system itself

Fiat money's slavery is not bad at all. We work hard to earn more money, but this is invested in real assets.
If the current monetary system is not going to change in our lifetime, why bother with it?

Lol working hard is a scam. You are working hard and making peanuts so other people work smart/have luck and make millions out of you with 1% of your effort.

aso118

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Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 05:30:13 PM

Just remember some nice talk from Interstella:

"Because he knew how hard it would be to get people to work together to save the species, instead of themselves or their children. Evolution has yet to transcend that simple barrier. We can care deeply, selflessly about those we know. But that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight."

Similarly, it is difficult to let people work together to change the world from fiat money's slavery, since their line of sight seldom extends beyond their salary and profit, not even mention fiat monetary system itself

Fiat money's slavery is not bad at all. We work hard to earn more money, but this is invested in real assets.
If the current monetary system is not going to change in our lifetime, why bother with it?

deisik

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Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 05:28:14 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 16, 2015, 05:00:45 PM

What is the purpose of overcapacity? There is none, so it is profitable for governments that people should be employed to the full by any means (besides, employed people are less prone to social unrest). There is still much room for making the elites' lives better, even in the Caribbean. So no worry for the majority of humanity...

Overcapacity is a natural result of technology improvement, with each stage of technology improvement, large amount of people were thrown out of working force. Government has endless credit line so it does not matter if it is profitable or not

Yes, but technology improvements still don't make producers better off per se (and it is not government that pushes forward technological innovation). You still need effective demand to get profit out of these improvements. But how can this be made possible if large amounts of people are thrown out of working force (and don't get employed somewhere else)? New manufacturing processes always shake up the labor market, but as we see that human population grew exponentially since the Industrial Revolution with the standards of living ever improving, we can only make one inference, that is, advanced production turns out to be creating more jobs in the end...

Could you explain this by just "government having an endless credit line"?

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Just remember some nice talk from Interstella:

"Because he knew how hard it would be to get people to work together to save the species, instead of themselves or their children. Evolution has yet to transcend that simple barrier. We can care deeply, selflessly about those we know. But that empathy rarely extends beyond our line of sight."

Similarly, it is difficult to let people work together to change the world from fiat money's slavery, since their line of sight seldom extends beyond their salary and profit, not even mention fiat monetary system itself

johnyj

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Quote from: deisik on March 16, 2015, 05:00:45 PM

What is the purpose of overcapacity? There is none, so it is profitable for governments that people should be employed to the full by any means (besides, employed people are less prone to social unrest). There is still much room for making the elites' lives better, even in the Caribbean. So no worry for the majority of humanity...

Overcapacity is a natural result of technology improvement, with each stage of technology improvement, large amount of people were thrown out of working force. Government has endless credit line so it does not matter if it is profitable or not

deisik

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Quote from: johnyj on March 16, 2015, 04:44:15 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 16, 2015, 03:05:12 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 16, 2015, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

The problem is when all your skills and what you have to offer gets automated by machines that are 100000% more efficient and cheaper than you.

This would make no sense on a larger scale. Machines exist so that humans could switch their activity to something more interesting/rewarding. If all men would one day become unemployed, then there would be no market for the goods machines produce. So it is a self-balancing system with a feedback loop...

The self-balancing mechanism only happens decades ago, when you still had lots of demand for the whole society and lack of production capacity. When most of the production can be done by a few companies, majority of people will be out of job and income

It is true that if all the other people are unemployed, then how to sell the products that robots made? No worry, government will borrow a bit to hand out as food stamps and social security and keep majority of people living a just OK life. While robot companies and banks took large amount of resource and build their heaven island somewhere in Caribbean

What is the purpose of overcapacity? There is none, so it is profitable for governments that people should be employed to the full by any means (besides, employed people are less prone to social unrest). There is still much room for making the elites' lives better, even in the Caribbean. So no worry for the majority of humanity...

johnyj

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Quote from: deisik on March 16, 2015, 03:05:12 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 16, 2015, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

The problem is when all your skills and what you have to offer gets automated by machines that are 100000% more efficient and cheaper than you.

This would make no sense on a larger scale. Machines exist so that humans could switch their activity to something more interesting/rewarding. If all men would one day become unemployed, then there would be no market for the goods machines produce. So it is a self-balancing system with a feedback loop...

The self-balancing mechanism only happens decades ago, when you still had lots of demand for the whole society and lack of production capacity. When most of the production can be done by a few companies, majority of people will be out of job and income

It is true that if all the other people are unemployed, then how to sell the products that robots made? No worry, government will borrow a bit to hand out as food stamps and social security and keep majority of people living a just OK life. While robot companies and banks took large amount of resource and build their heaven island somewhere in Caribbean

deisik

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 16, 2015, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

The problem is when all your skills and what you have to offer gets automated by machines that are 100000% more efficient and cheaper than you.

This would make no sense on a larger scale. Machines exist so that humans could switch their activity to something more interesting/rewarding. If all men would one day become unemployed, then there would be no market for the goods machines produce. So it is a self-balancing system with a feedback loop...

johnyj

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 16, 2015, 09:27:47 AM

Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

The problem is when all your skills and what you have to offer gets automated by machines that are 100000% more efficient and cheaper than you.

And because human society is driven by fiat money, only those who can create large amount of fiat money can mass produce these robots and make majority of people lose their job, this is also a result of being fiat money's slave

Bitcoin does not change the ultimate result of machine replacing people. But it might change the centralized society like we have today, so that more people can afford a robot or two to do the work for them

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

The problem is when all your skills and what you have to offer gets automated by machines that are 100000% more efficient and cheaper than you.

futureofbitcoin

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Quote from: SargeR33 on March 14, 2015, 02:10:53 AM

Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

If a basketball player didn't have a basketball, he couldn't do much. If you didn't have your arms and legs, you probably couldn't offer your skills.

Some people, like Venture capitalists, are good at using money to improve the world. That's the thing they're good at. They might not be good at fixing computers or cleaning toilets, but they're good at managing money.

Q7

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It is lucky that we now have bitcoin where the supply no matter what can't be artificially created. I agree with your analogy, every time when fiat get printed, that is generally robbery because banks actually dilute the value of each individual's holding and they don't ask your permission or agreement to do that. And when that happens the same amount of fiat which can buy you that amount of goods will one day require higher amount of fiat to get back the same amount. And that is what we call inflation versus bitcoin's core principle which is deflationary

SargeR33

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Lets just say if some people did not have money, they would be as useful as a wet tissue.

If I didn't have money, I could offer my skills to barter for other goods or services. This is what money fixes, it creates a field where everyone can play on.

johnyj

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Quote from: vrm86 on March 13, 2015, 04:32:31 PM

Quote from: johnyj on March 12, 2015, 06:52:23 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 12, 2015, 09:43:10 AM

The idea of money being an illusion used to be a major economic concept until the 1970s when it was replaced after criticism from Milton Friedman. He argued that you can fool people once, but not all the time. He argued that people would catch on to the government’s scheme. So if inflation was 5% they would demand a wage rise of 5%. This would nullify any government action.

That is the theory, in reality, if workers demand a 5% wage rise, they will be fired. They would still be fired if they do not accept a wage cut Wink

It depends. Sometimes 5% of wage is less than cost of coaching for an inexperienced laborer.

The wage do not rise because there are so many skilled workers out there

The dilemma is: If a worker is outstandingly smart and creative, then he would be creating his own business and not working for anyone else. But if a worker is just like many others and do the routine work, then he will replaced by machines and robots

This is a little bit off-topic, this thread is about money's slavery effect. Of course automation and AI is a even more severe problem, it is not about slavery, but annihilation of work. You still got some money under money's slavery, but with the arriving of AI you might not get slavery even if you asked for it, you are totally out

vrm86

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Quote from: johnyj on March 12, 2015, 06:52:23 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 12, 2015, 09:43:10 AM

The idea of money being an illusion used to be a major economic concept until the 1970s when it was replaced after criticism from Milton Friedman. He argued that you can fool people once, but not all the time. He argued that people would catch on to the government’s scheme. So if inflation was 5% they would demand a wage rise of 5%. This would nullify any government action.

That is the theory, in reality, if workers demand a 5% wage rise, they will be fired. They would still be fired if they do not accept a wage cut Wink

It depends. Sometimes 5% of wage is less than cost of coaching for an unexperienced labourer.

BillyBobZorton

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The idea of money being an illusion used to be a major economic concept until the 1970s when it was replaced after criticism from Milton Friedman. He argued that you can fool people once, but not all the time. He argued that people would catch on to the government’s scheme. So if inflation was 5% they would demand a wage rise of 5%. This would nullify any government action.

johnyj

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 12, 2015, 09:43:10 AM

The idea of money being an illusion used to be a major economic concept until the 1970s when it was replaced after criticism from Milton Friedman. He argued that you can fool people once, but not all the time. He argued that people would catch on to the government’s scheme. So if inflation was 5% they would demand a wage rise of 5%. This would nullify any government action.

That is the theory, in reality, if workers demand a 5% wage rise, they will be fired. They would still be fired if they do not accept a wage cut Wink

Topic: Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it - page 14. (Read 17723 times)