Without money everything would be chaos, with money everything is chaos.
Who would make the clothes you're wearing right now for free, nobody, unless they're slaves.
Topic: Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it - page 8. (Read 17699 times)
Money or types of currency have been used since 700 BC. Since then it has been a way for people to fall into a certain social class and also so that everyone would not own a $500,000 house. If everything was free would you want to work? Almost everyone would say no. Money used to be backed up by gold (at least in the US). Since then the dollar is based on the governments supply of money instead of it's actual backing in gold. If you look at Germany after WW1 they printed tons of money to pay back the countries that they owed and the citizens money was almost worthless because of the extreme inflation rate.
No. not only US, every country has to back up the printing of money by equivalent amount of Gold, GDP and export or any other income the country is having. They can not just print the money like that.
if you think like that then you have never been to countries like Malawi, Niger, South Sudan, India, China.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
Most of the poverty today are not caused by lacking of resource or production technology, but by lacking of money, and today's fiat money system is the major cause of it, since it continuously shift wealth to ruling class
If the time of each person is used as currency, then every people in those developing countries will become almost equally rich as the person in developed countries. Unfortunately, in today's system they must work like a slave, use their precious life to exchange for some food that people throwing away every day in developed countries. Without money, their freedom is very limited, but with fiat money, they would never gain freedom
Some people might say that has something to do with education, but that is not true. A higher degree might give you a better career 100 years ago, but now there are so many people with higher degrees can not find a job.
If you look at the ruling class of those developing country, they live almost the same life as western elites. Now most of the European luxury products are bought by Chinese
Tyrants, political parasites, puppets, banksters, thiefs, fraudsters. The same trash subhumans that are infecting humanity with their filthy virus since it's inception.
We really need to stop this once and for all.
if you think like that then you have never been to countries like Malawi, Niger, South Sudan, India, China.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
Most of the poverty today are not caused by lacking of resource or production technology, but by lacking of money, and today's fiat money system is the major cause of it, since it continuously shift wealth to ruling class
If the time of each person is used as currency, then every people in those developing countries will become almost equally rich as the person in developed countries. Unfortunately, in today's system they must work like a slave, use their precious life to exchange for some food that people throwing away every day in developed countries. Without money, their freedom is very limited, but with fiat money, they would never gain freedom
Some people might say that has something to do with education, but that is not true. A higher degree might give you a better career 100 years ago, but now there are so many people with higher degrees can not find a job.
If you look at the ruling class of those developing country, they live almost the same life as western elites. Now most of the European luxury products are bought by Chinese
I have often thought that electronically represented gold, where the 'coin' could not be issued unless the physical metal were stored, would be the most stable, but that goes to the problem of trust in the issuing authority, and its immunity from government seizure.
if you think like that then you have never been to countries like Malawi, Niger, South Sudan, India, China.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
There are many places in the world where basic physiological needs aren't met, but that isn't because of a shortage of resources or output. It is just because our resources are allocated very selectively, where a large amount of resources are accessed by a small % of people based on financial wealth.
However I second the recommendation to travel as much as possible if you have the means to do so
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Not really, some people die at 20 some people die at 90. Should we have a "time welfare" where we would take out the "life energy" of 50 year olds who could live till 90, and let them die at 50, and give it to the 20 year old that would die in 20 just to live till 50, is that moral?
Time socialism?
You get maximum 2 magnitudes of difference, while in fiat money, money creators can claim trillions of fiat money with a flip of a pen and many people barely make their ends meet
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
Is there any output more valuable than life itself? Of course when your life is threatened by not getting enough food and shelter, those things seems more important than time, but in today's society, those basic needs are never a problem in most of the countries
if you think like that then you have never been to countries like Malawi, Niger, South Sudan, India, China.
There are people who can't afford to drink clean water. Two times food will be counted as a luxury for them. Go out and see the world, dear.
I have often thought that electronically represented gold, where the 'coin' could not be issued unless the physical metal were stored, would be the most stable, but that goes to the problem of trust in the issuing authority, and its immunity from government seizure.
The same thoughts behind the concept of "smart contract", but the same problem as no one can approve the validity of those assets that backing them
The blockchain itself only validate the bitcoin, nothing else related to physical world, but this can be regarded as a merit instead of limitation. Since if some large gold business backing bitcoin disappeared, it will not hurt the integrity of bitcoin network, thus will not prevent others from backing bitcoin. The backing of bitcoin comes from accepting bitcoin payment, nothing else is needed to back bitcoin
I have often thought that electronically represented gold, where the 'coin' could not be issued unless the physical metal were stored, would be the most stable, but that goes to the problem of trust in the issuing authority, and its immunity from government seizure.
In a world run mostly with inflated financial assets (fiat money, debt, etc.) the scenario where gold or bitcoin really, really shines is the catastrophic (but highly unlikely, at least in the short term) collapse of confidence in *all* of the inflated assets. But that is also the very scenario where various intermediaries between you and your savings have an especially great incentive to (at least partially) steal it from you, one way or another.
It's like playing poker where you hold a highly speculative hand, that will really rake it in if cards come out just right. If, for some reason, you can't collect in that scenario, what would be the point?
So, avoid paper gold and storing much bitcoin with the exchange.
Unfortunately bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of who controls the money.
There's no central issuing authority so I'm not talking about the traditional form of currency control, but the control that comes from the fact that anyone adopting bitcoin today probably has to buy it from an existing bitcoin holder. Creating your own is barely economical for people in China with access to some of the world's cheapest and most polluting energy sources. It's no longer a currency that anyone with some knowledge and a little bit of cash can have a go at generating and not lose value overall in the process.
I believe the bitcoin price mania that occurred in mid/late 2013 was stifled by the simple fact that people began to look at one bitcoin and wonder why it should be worth more than the other traditional and ancient form of currency, one troy ounce of gold. I know we can shift decimal places, use mBTC and declare the above statement doesn't matter, but it's impossible to hide from the maths.
There's no central issuing authority so I'm not talking about the traditional form of currency control, but the control that comes from the fact that anyone adopting bitcoin today probably has to buy it from an existing bitcoin holder. Creating your own is barely economical for people in China with access to some of the world's cheapest and most polluting energy sources. It's no longer a currency that anyone with some knowledge and a little bit of cash can have a go at generating and not lose value overall in the process.
I believe the bitcoin price mania that occurred in mid/late 2013 was stifled by the simple fact that people began to look at one bitcoin and wonder why it should be worth more than the other traditional and ancient form of currency, one troy ounce of gold. I know we can shift decimal places, use mBTC and declare the above statement doesn't matter, but it's impossible to hide from the maths.
It's only natural that gold or bitcoin becomes expensive to mine. You wouldn't want to own something that people can easily create.
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
Just a side note, there never has nor will be something that has universally agreed value - people are willing to adjust their perceptions of value for convenience and simplicity (for example converting USD to YEN, some might feel the USD is valued correctly - but they'll still convert because they need it for their holiday).
The reality is that you need a medium of exchange (hence fiat currency) - because a pure bartering system is difficult when dealing with items (how do you have 1.5 oak tables for example?).
True, for modern commercial based society, a medium of exchange must be used. In fact time is already used in existing standards of value: Gold has been selected as the best candidate, because it records unbiased labor time: People use similar amount of time to produce one ounce of gold when the latest mining technology is used
But fiat currency does not record unbiased labor time: By using the latest fiat money creation technology QE, all it needs is to write some numbers in the account, it does not contain any labor time, so the value should be zero
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Not really, some people die at 20 some people die at 90. Should we have a "time welfare" where we would take out the "life energy" of 50 year olds who could live till 90, and let them die at 50, and give it to the 20 year old that would die in 20 just to live till 50, is that moral?
Time socialism?
You get maximum 2 magnitudes of difference, while in fiat money, money creators can claim trillions of fiat money with a flip of a pen and many people barely make their ends meet
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
Is there any output more valuable than life itself? Of course when your life is threatened by not getting enough food and shelter, those things seems more important than time, but in today's society, those basic needs are never a problem in most of the countries
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Not really, some people die at 20 some people die at 90. Should we have a "time welfare" where we would take out the "life energy" of 50 year olds who could live till 90, and let them die at 50, and give it to the 20 year old that would die in 20 just to live till 50, is that moral?
Time socialism?
You get maximum 2 magnitudes of difference, while in fiat money, money creators can claim trillions of fiat money with a flip of a pen and many people barely make their ends meet
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
Just a side note, there never has nor will be something that has universally agreed value - people are willing to adjust their perceptions of value for convenience and simplicity (for example converting USD to YEN, some might feel the USD is valued correctly - but they'll still convert because they need it for their holiday).
The reality is that you need a medium of exchange (hence fiat currency) - because a pure bartering system is difficult when dealing with items (how do you have 1.5 oak tables for example?).
Unfortunately bitcoin doesn't solve the problem of who controls the money.
There's no central issuing authority so I'm not talking about the traditional form of currency control, but the control that comes from the fact that anyone adopting bitcoin today probably has to buy it from an existing bitcoin holder. Creating your own is barely economical for people in China with access to some of the world's cheapest and most polluting energy sources. It's no longer a currency that anyone with some knowledge and a little bit of cash can have a go at generating and not lose value overall in the process.
I believe the bitcoin price mania that occurred in mid/late 2013 was stifled by the simple fact that people began to look at one bitcoin and wonder why it should be worth more than the other traditional and ancient form of currency, one troy ounce of gold. I know we can shift decimal places, use mBTC and declare the above statement doesn't matter, but it's impossible to hide from the maths.
There's no central issuing authority so I'm not talking about the traditional form of currency control, but the control that comes from the fact that anyone adopting bitcoin today probably has to buy it from an existing bitcoin holder. Creating your own is barely economical for people in China with access to some of the world's cheapest and most polluting energy sources. It's no longer a currency that anyone with some knowledge and a little bit of cash can have a go at generating and not lose value overall in the process.
I believe the bitcoin price mania that occurred in mid/late 2013 was stifled by the simple fact that people began to look at one bitcoin and wonder why it should be worth more than the other traditional and ancient form of currency, one troy ounce of gold. I know we can shift decimal places, use mBTC and declare the above statement doesn't matter, but it's impossible to hide from the maths.
You get maximum 2 magnitudes of difference, while in fiat money, money creators can claim trillions of fiat money with a flip of a pen and many people barely make their ends meet
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
I bet if time could be traded, socialists would want to rob us from that too.
There was actually a movie i forgot the title, but it was about trading time... so its not totally impossible
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Not really, some people die at 20 some people die at 90. Should we have a "time welfare" where we would take out the "life energy" of 50 year olds who could live till 90, and let them die at 50, and give it to the 20 year old that would die in 20 just to live till 50, is that moral?
Time socialism?
You get maximum 2 magnitudes of difference, while in fiat money, money creators can claim trillions of fiat money with a flip of a pen and many people barely make their ends meet
If you want to define something's value to be universally equal to everyone, thus can be used as a unit of value, then fiat money is definitely not a good candidate, since it worth so little for the money creator while worth so much for poor people. However, if you take 10 years time, it would worth similar to any one with normal health: 1/7 of his life
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Yeah I don't really get your point. Some die at birth and some make it to 110 years of age. Also, life quality is as important as living for a long period of time.Yea, i bet many 30 year odls who die young lived much better, and probably died because of their extreme sports or whatever.
Than many people who live until 110 and regret alot of things that they didnt have chance to do.
So quality is a big think, thats why i think money should not be distributed.
Add life to years, not years to life. (forgot the author
) In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Yeah I don't really get your point. Some die at birth and some make it to 110 years of age. Also, life quality is as important as living for a long period of time.Yea, i bet many 30 year odls who die young lived much better, and probably died because of their extreme sports or whatever.
Than many people who live until 110 and regret alot of things that they didnt have chance to do.
So quality is a big think, thats why i think money should not be distributed.
In fact time has almost equal value to everyone. Each person owns about the same amount of time during his entire life. But unfortunately, time can not be transferred
Yeah I don't really get your point. Some die at birth and some make it to 110 years of age. Also, life quality is as important as living for a long period of time. Jump to: