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Topic: Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it - page 4. (Read 17699 times)

hero member
Activity: 2128
Merit: 655
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Those so called financial assets are just a scam to rob average people off their money, when majority of the people were robbed, there will be depression and recession. But now when money can be created out of nothing at will, banks don't need to do this kind of scam any more, they can raise those financial assets' value forever using money out of thin air. And as long as people are still using fiat money to measure value, that game can last forever

There is a live show of central bank election: Greece crisis. Greece must decide if they still honor ECB to be their central bank, or they can say bye bye to ECB and setup their own central bank. The Greek people did not elect their central bank, but they elected a government who might be capable of setting up a new central bank thus totally reset the whole system

My guess is that ECB will never let them go. Print tons of euro and give it to Greece is much easier than set them free and become financially independent. However, ECB will never gain anything from enslaving Greece: They are so cunning that they just default  Grin

If Greece are set free from ECB's control, they will be as good as heaven, then everyone will understand what is the root cause of Greece's problem



There will be depression/recession when the public realize the financial assets are way over-valued *and* this time the market wins because the authorities can no longer keep reality from being reflected by prices.

You should give people (and especially relative savvy, rich investors who tend to lead the way) more credit when it comes to realizing that currency can be over-valued too.  Money is just another financial asset.  When its value buys less and less, people always take notice and take action.  Your view of money being always trusted as a measure of value is likely rooted in the lack of obvious and severe consumer price inflation in the modern West (except for a brief period in Weimar Germany.)  This is a historically specific set of conditions, not a general one.  The immediate driver of the Great Depression was that Europeans, led by the rich, no longer trusted the value of their money and speculated in dollars and US stocks, as well as converting their cash to gold.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.

I`d rather have no tax at all, or better yet no government, but to be realistic in a tyrranycal world we live in today, the VAT tax would only make sense if all other taxes would be eliminated.

You see VAT tax is atleast an enviromentally friendly one (to slow down the rabbid consumption based economy), but then again we got fiat printed money, and loan based economy to boost consumerism, so it's really nonsense, on 1 hand you halt comsumption by taxing it, on the other hand you give out loans from counterfeited money to boost consumerism. What a joke this government is.  Cheesy

You're not going to get a disagreement from me on not having tax, but that world is far from the socialist one we live in.  There are some things that I don't mind contributing to, like infrastructure, transportation systems, renewable energy, etc (all of that can also be done privately).  These are things that directly or indirectly benefit pretty much everyone, and making it more efficient would help everyone.  However a lot of the other bullshit responsibilities seem to fall under the government umbrella that I don't care for, and which are extremely expensive.
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 252
Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.

I`d rather have no tax at all, or better yet no government, but to be realistic in a tyrranycal world we live in today, the VAT tax would only make sense if all other taxes would be eliminated.

You see VAT tax is atleast an enviromentally friendly one (to slow down the rabbid consumption based economy), but then again we got fiat printed money, and loan based economy to boost consumerism, so it's really nonsense, on 1 hand you halt comsumption by taxing it, on the other hand you give out loans from counterfeited money to boost consumerism. What a joke this government is.  Cheesy

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Yes there are some promos where you get some cashback here too, but I opted those out because it's more like a scam,I knew a guy who get a cashback after purchasing from a physical store and now it's facing a civil lawsuit from the bank on some bogus "no refund policy"  because he later returned the product, but the cahsback cant be returned, yet the store had no problem with returning of the item (i think it was a lamp) , however since he purchased with the card it got an issue with his bank (even though the cashback should be a gift, looks like banks dont give out free money after all ,only scam you).

Not to talk about the governments VAT tax scam, just to keep prices high artificially, its disgusting.

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 252
Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Yes there are some promos where you get some cashback here too, but I opted those out because it's more like a scam,I knew a guy who get a cashback after purchasing from a physical store and now it's facing a civil lawsuit from the bank on some bogus "no refund policy"  because he later returned the product, but the cahsback cant be returned, yet the store had no problem with returning of the item (i think it was a lamp) , however since he purchased with the card it got an issue with his bank (even though the cashback should be a gift, looks like banks dont give out free money after all ,only scam you).

Not to talk about the governments VAT tax scam, just to keep prices high artificially, its disgusting.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

1)  You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

2)   Is that normal in your country?

3) In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

1) Yes, they are thieves, I also had a Visa Card a few years ago, and it was the same, so its the same there too

2) I guess so, nobody complained so far, I must be pretty enlightened to realize what a global scam this is?

3) I`m using debit card not credit card (not really buying into the global credit ponzi scheme), but whatever, its still a fucking ripoff.

Not to mention 25% VAT from the government, I love those thieves too.

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1021
Humanity decided to live by the rules of capitalism.

Who would've made inventions like the internet or Bitcoin if we lived like animals?
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 252
Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game
I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

1)  You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

2)   Is that normal in your country?

3) In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

1) Yes, they are thieves, I also had a Visa Card a few years ago, and it was the same, so its the same there too

2) I guess so, nobody complained so far, I must be pretty enlightened to realize what a global scam this is?

3) I`m using debit card not credit card (not really buying into the global credit ponzi scheme), but whatever, its still a fucking ripoff.

Not to mention 25% VAT from the government, I love those thieves too.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

Is that normal in your country?

In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 252
Undeads.com - P2E Runner Game


You obviously don't shop online, since that guy is spreading blatant disinformation (mildly speaking). I buy things online a few times a month, so I know what I'm talking about. My last online purchase was just two hours ago, and I paid with my bank card (MasterCard Platinum, which is free if I keep a deposit of around 1,000$ in the bank). The payment was literally instant (as always), I didn't have to wait at all (and this is the same for Visas and MasterCards which I have). I paid 0% commission, and I will even get 1% cash-back, which I am paid every month for my purchases by the bank. Regarding stealing money from a bank card, this is hardly possible since I set daily limits, and every transaction online should be confirmed by a code sent to my phone by my bank. By the way, wire transfer is also free of charge for me (but this depends on a bank, of course)...

Just don't believe every word that you hear here

I think i talked with you about this , are you that russian guy who has small comissions?

Well good luck for you bro that you live in the haven of BRICS, here in Europe we have thief banks controlled by the globalists that want to steal every penny from us.

I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

Also the transaction can be instant, but it takes 3-4 days to clear from the account, that means  that i cant buy from the same place again until the order hasnt cleared. So if i want to buy lets say 1 flower online, and then i change my mind and want to buy another 1, i have to wait 3-4 days until i can buy again,

Yes thanks to those globalists that want to steal from all of us, so shut up dude, you are lucky that you dont live in this horrible place and that you have a country that cares about you, because where I live, they only steal from you   Sad
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
In short: Fiat-Money is a scam. Its probably the biggest scam ever. Or was that the gold-market? well not sure, but i am sure anything related to financial institutions and banks can be generally marked as "legal fraud".

The concept of money is not a scam, but some financial institutions are scamming with the money.
For example saying you have money and vouching for somebody's credit while not having enough funds (like the banks do) is a scam.
And their words are unbelievable, they only sale's talk to you so that you would belive them and after you believe and you let your money with their hands, for surely you wouldn't back your money
sr. member
Activity: 641
Merit: 253
▰▰▰ Global Cryptocurrency Paymen
In short: Fiat-Money is a scam. Its probably the biggest scam ever. Or was that the gold-market? well not sure, but i am sure anything related to financial institutions and banks can be generally marked as "legal fraud".

The concept of money is not a scam, but some financial institutions are scamming with the money.
For example saying you have money and vouching for somebody's credit while not having enough funds (like the banks do) is a scam.
hero member
Activity: 631
Merit: 500
That is But OBVIOUS.. humanity is enslaved by money, its a simple logic can we live without money??? And the answer is "NO" we cant. Basically it depends on what financial decisions you make?? If i make bad financial decisons then definitely it will be TROUBLE.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
In short: Fiat-Money is a scam. Its probably the biggest scam ever. Or was that the gold-market? well not sure, but i am sure anything related to financial institutions and banks can be generally marked as "legal fraud".

Nope fiat money doesnt scam. Money for now is our currency that is stable but in the new era bitcoin will change it. It doesnt mean that it is fraud because this fiat money is legal but still bitcoin doesnt have a chance to proof it for now. May be just a couple of years or decade bitcoin will show the truth to us

the problem of bitcoin against fiat, is that bitcoin is too slow at catching up with fiat, if bitcoin really needs other decades to fight fiat, then we are screwed, because many technologies will come out by then and the chances of bitcoin to succeed will become much lower

and bank are indeed scamming with their fractional reserve/money printing system
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1008
In short: Fiat-Money is a scam. Its probably the biggest scam ever. Or was that the gold-market? well not sure, but i am sure anything related to financial institutions and banks can be generally marked as "legal fraud".

Nope fiat money doesnt scam. Money for now is our currency that is stable but in the new era bitcoin will change it. It doesnt mean that it is fraud because this fiat money is legal but still bitcoin doesnt have a chance to proof it for now. May be just a couple of years or decade bitcoin will show the truth to us
full member
Activity: 124
Merit: 100
photo taken by ESSA-7 satelite. 1968
In short: Fiat-Money is a scam. Its probably the biggest scam ever. Or was that the gold-market? well not sure, but i am sure anything related to financial institutions and banks can be generally marked as "legal fraud".
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
What you said makes sense.  I am assuming that the commission originally referenced would be for the seller of goods/services, and not the buyer.  Most credit cards around here also provide protection against theft.  So even if the card was stolen and used, the credit card company/bank would be liable and not the cardholder.  It's this way in Canada at least.

Furthermore, if the seller fails to deliver, with a bank card you can request a refund of a completed payment (money-back). Once I got into such a situation when the postal service lost my parcel (or it was stolen, idk). I tried to contact the seller for a refund, since the parcel de jure belongs to them until I take it at the post office. They refused, and I had to claim the money back through my bank. After the two week investigation by the bank I got my funds back, which were forcibly transferred from the seller's account in the acquiring bank to my account...
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
Have you ever shopped online?

-An average online card based shopping has a 4-8% comission on it by start, with bitcoin its about 2-3 cents (0.0001-0.0002 BTC)
-An average online card based shopping takes 2-4 days, bitcoin takes 10 minutes
-Wire transfer shopping is even worse, up to 5% comission +25€, so if you want to buy a 0.5€ pencil online, you pay like 30€ for it.
-Card based shopping is full with frauds, and if you have like 2000€ on your bank account, the thief can easily rob it, and then it will take you 6-12 months of police and other legal procedures to recover the money (if it can be recovered).
-With bitcoin you can just put 0.5BTC on your "shopping address" and keep your other 100 BTC on a safe cold storage wallet, so even if somebody steals your wallet he gets away with less (more diversification & risk control with bitcoin)
-Bitcoin is available for minors too, in some countries 16 year old is already eligible for work, yet he cannot have his own bank account without parent agreement which is nonsense. If a 16 year old guy works online to get some extra cash in bitcoin, and he spends it wherever he wants, thats his money and the government should not restrict that at all.
-Banks are not the safest place to store money (see Cyprus govenrment confiscation, Pension looting and other governmental thefts that occur nowadays), your bitcoins on the otherhands are invulnerable to government theft.
-Bitcoin doesnt have global restrictions, open to P2P trading, I can sell p2p anything, otherwise if i would have bought it from a central store you need to pay VAT tax on it, p2p trading is not taxed, yet, and it's more efficient.
-Bitcoin doesn't discriminate racially or politically or religiously between users (see EU and USA embargoes on "enemy" countries)
-Bitcoin is free market trading, its monetary freedom, and capped supply, while fiat money is an inflated toilet paper money.
 and many more...

An average guy can easily understand this, dont need a 160 IQ to understand that the governmental-monetary system is highly flawed.

Yes, we all know these.

You obviously don't shop online, since that guy is spreading blatant disinformation (mildly speaking). I buy things online a few times a month, so I know what I'm talking about. My last online purchase was just two hours ago, and I paid with my bank card (MasterCard Platinum, which is free if I keep a deposit of around 1,000$ in the bank). The payment was literally instant (as always), I didn't have to wait at all (and this is the same for Visas and MasterCards which I have). I paid 0% commission, and I will even get 1% cash-back, which I am paid every month for my purchases by the bank. Regarding stealing money from a bank card, this is hardly possible since I set daily limits, and every transaction online should be confirmed by a code sent to my phone by my bank. By the way, wire transfer is also free of charge for me (but this depends on a bank, of course)...

Just don't believe every word that you hear here

What you said makes sense.  I am assuming that the commission originally referenced would be for the seller of goods/services, and not the buyer.  Most credit cards around here also provide protection against theft.  So even if the card was stolen and used, the credit card company/bank would be liable and not the cardholder.  It's this way in Canada at least.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Have you ever shopped online?

-An average online card based shopping has a 4-8% comission on it by start, with bitcoin its about 2-3 cents (0.0001-0.0002 BTC)
-An average online card based shopping takes 2-4 days, bitcoin takes 10 minutes
-Wire transfer shopping is even worse, up to 5% comission +25€, so if you want to buy a 0.5€ pencil online, you pay like 30€ for it.
-Card based shopping is full with frauds, and if you have like 2000€ on your bank account, the thief can easily rob it, and then it will take you 6-12 months of police and other legal procedures to recover the money (if it can be recovered).
-With bitcoin you can just put 0.5BTC on your "shopping address" and keep your other 100 BTC on a safe cold storage wallet, so even if somebody steals your wallet he gets away with less (more diversification & risk control with bitcoin)
-Bitcoin is available for minors too, in some countries 16 year old is already eligible for work, yet he cannot have his own bank account without parent agreement which is nonsense. If a 16 year old guy works online to get some extra cash in bitcoin, and he spends it wherever he wants, thats his money and the government should not restrict that at all.
-Banks are not the safest place to store money (see Cyprus govenrment confiscation, Pension looting and other governmental thefts that occur nowadays), your bitcoins on the otherhands are invulnerable to government theft.
-Bitcoin doesnt have global restrictions, open to P2P trading, I can sell p2p anything, otherwise if i would have bought it from a central store you need to pay VAT tax on it, p2p trading is not taxed, yet, and it's more efficient.
-Bitcoin doesn't discriminate racially or politically or religiously between users (see EU and USA embargoes on "enemy" countries)
-Bitcoin is free market trading, its monetary freedom, and capped supply, while fiat money is an inflated toilet paper money.
 and many more...

An average guy can easily understand this, dont need a 160 IQ to understand that the governmental-monetary system is highly flawed.

Yes, we all know these.

You obviously don't shop online, since that guy is spreading blatant disinformation (mildly speaking). I buy things online a few times a month, so I know what I'm talking about. My last online purchase was just two hours ago, and I paid with my bank card (MasterCard Platinum, which is free if I keep a deposit of around 1,000$ in the bank). The payment was literally instant (as always), I didn't have to wait at all (and this is the same for Visas and MasterCards which I have). I paid 0% commission, and I will even get 1% cash-back, which I am paid every month for my purchases by the bank. Regarding stealing money from a bank card, this is hardly possible since I set daily limits, and every transaction online should be confirmed by a code sent to my phone by my bank. By the way, wire transfer is also free of charge for me (but this depends on a bank, of course)...

Just don't believe every word that you hear here
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