1. Use VPN or proxy to send the coins to mixers, get coins in different addresses.
2. Sell localbitcoin, different exchanges
3. Shop online accepting bitcoin
4. buying gift cards and resell them
Topic: Money Laundering "Not Possible" with Bitcoin? (Read 2567 times)
After reading many posts here I think the conclusion is that if a person was under investigation then he will be exposed unless he can actually prove how it got its fortune. It really depends on the country but if you want to launder Bitcoin, you can create an online casino o similar site and forge the visits, income, etc. If they are incompetent investigators like most of the 3rd world they won't even notice or care what a blockchain or a Bitcoin is really. There should really be a lot of money involved for them to investigate at full capacity.
I too think money laundering is impossible since you can know the origin of every coin from mining to now just following the blockchain, Even mixing the coins won't be extremely effective since the other coins being mixed are also not clean necessarily.
With decent mixers, you can't link the coins because the link is broken. That's what traditional mixing does.
With Coin Join and similar methods, everyone in that transaction is linked, so you get lost looking at it. You can no longer trace one input to another output because suddenly 100 inputs goes to 100 (or more) outputs all in the same transaction. Boom, lost in the crowd.
And, if you just played on some dice sites, suddenly your inputs gets mixed with a whole bunch of others.
With Coin Join and similar methods, everyone in that transaction is linked, so you get lost looking at it. You can no longer trace one input to another output because suddenly 100 inputs goes to 100 (or more) outputs all in the same transaction. Boom, lost in the crowd.
And, if you just played on some dice sites, suddenly your inputs gets mixed with a whole bunch of others.
With mixers you have to trust a third party, they they (1) dont run with you bitcoins, (2) dont log everything which transactions are which, (3) you dont get dirtier coins than your own, (4) they are not run or infiltrated by feds.
With decent mixers, you can't link the coins because the link is broken. That's what traditional mixing does.
With Coin Join and similar methods, everyone in that transaction is linked, so you get lost looking at it. You can no longer trace one input to another output because suddenly 100 inputs goes to 100 (or more) outputs all in the same transaction. Boom, lost in the crowd.
And, if you just played on some dice sites, suddenly your inputs gets mixed with a whole bunch of others.
With Coin Join and similar methods, everyone in that transaction is linked, so you get lost looking at it. You can no longer trace one input to another output because suddenly 100 inputs goes to 100 (or more) outputs all in the same transaction. Boom, lost in the crowd.
And, if you just played on some dice sites, suddenly your inputs gets mixed with a whole bunch of others.
Yes I agree BTC is not a practical option at that at all, You can literally track the origin of each coins in addresses back to the place they came from. Even with mixers and the likes it would still link to the original origin of the coins.
1. Buy bitcoins from local or on street.
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
Nice theory, but even if you sell your bitcoins for cash you have to prove where you got them from..
The problem is not making it untraceable, but having a good explanation of how the money was earned. That is why often there are front companies involved that can put extra work in their books that didn't happen for instance.
Telling them that you sold bitcoin for fiat is not enough, you'd have to explain where you got the coins from.
But how could they monitor bitcoin transactions? They would need an official clearance for that, I mean, they would need to officially recognize bitcoins as a form of currency. US government making that acknowledgement would be great for the community.
Nice theory, but even if you sell your bitcoins for cash you have to prove where you got them from.
...
Telling them that you sold bitcoin for fiat is not enough, you'd have to explain where you got the coins from.
...
Telling them that you sold bitcoin for fiat is not enough, you'd have to explain where you got the coins from.
I do? Who says I do? You're selling to another person, they don't usually ask where the coins are from, and who cares?
This is problem of human nature if you have money and don't spend it , you don't causing problems. But when you start spending for extreme cars..All that creating attentions and you are done.
Only good possible way would be investing that money in legal business..
Only good possible way would be investing that money in legal business..
1. Buy bitcoins from local or on street.
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
Nice theory, but even if you sell your bitcoins for cash you have to prove where you got them from..
The problem is not making it untraceable, but having a good explanation of how the money was earned. That is why often there are front companies involved that can put extra work in their books that didn't happen for instance.
Telling them that you sold bitcoin for fiat is not enough, you'd have to explain where you got the coins from.
But this is in theory very good..
Problem is government has vast technical advantage!
Whole internet now is under surveillance, phones are under surveillance..
Tor nodes are weak for them.
And what to say at the end?
NOT POSSIBLE! You will be caught at some point.
Problem is government has vast technical advantage!
Whole internet now is under surveillance, phones are under surveillance..
Tor nodes are weak for them.
And what to say at the end?
NOT POSSIBLE! You will be caught at some point.
1. Buy bitcoins from local or on street.
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
2. Send them to mixer but not at the same time and then in small amounts to multiple exchanges.
3. Buy sdc monero dash..and use their services from one to another wallet mixing , you will finally be 99 percent anonymous..
4. Few days send those coins on multiple exchanges every time in different amount.
Sell them for btc and windraw slowly to different addresses and wallets ..
weakness> you always must return to fiat and money can be folowed,
maybe if you sell bitcoins anonimus on street.
For all this you must use multiple wallets trading only via tor..
It is possible despite the entire blockchain history containing all the transactions, just figuring out who owns which address is the difficult part.
Yeah figuring out which address belongs to whom is the hard part and requires a pretty intensive detective work anyways.
I dont think that even intensive detective will work, because their is no possible of finding the owner of the address, even if you can find the history of the transactions in blockchain. At most yo can find only the wallet address which are doing transaction but you cannot find who owns the wallet. This is the main point of Bitcoin , that you cannot find the owner details of wallet by any way. So obviously you can do what ever you want with out reveling your identity.
It is possible despite the entire blockchain history containing all the transactions, just figuring out who owns which address is the difficult part.
Yeah figuring out which address belongs to whom is the hard part and requires a pretty intensive detective work anyways.
Or at least "not possible" at the crazy-shit levels that Liberty Reserve handled. Though to be honest, if I was into money laundering, I probably wouldn't be using Bitcoin anyhow. http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/02/01/liberty-reserve-level-of-money-laundering-is-not-possible-with-bitcoin/
this is possible,i think almost all things that have value and can be traded with money,it can used for money laundering,tha concept is almost same with money,just some account and regulation have different. maybe
It is possible despite the entire blockchain history containing all the transactions, just figuring out who owns which address is the difficult part.
Money laundering is possible with any currency, electronic or fiat. A public ledger can even be useful for money laundering. It's a perfect proof that a transaction was real. What's not in the ledger though, is the proof that some service was done, or that some goods were exchanged. The blockchain is a great tool for creative accounting...
Gosh, I could sell methods to launder money with BTC!
Gosh, I could sell methods to launder money with BTC!
I just purchased ten thousand and eight copies of a book entitled Methods to Launder Money with Bitcoin.
Full Disclosure: countryfree may or may not be a nym in my control.
@Gleb Gamow! You don't know me. So don't write silly things about me.
What's shocking here is that besides, Bungeebones, most people have no understanding of what money laundering is. Laundering $ or BTC is exactly the same thing. There isn't the slightest difference. BTC is not truly anonymous, but that's good. If you want to clean money, you don't want it to be hidden, nor without a known owner.
How to Launder Money the Old Way:
1. Send to dozens or hundreds of different bank accounts all over the world in dozens or hundreds of different countries. Pay the fees.
How to Launder Money using cryptocurrencies:
1. Send to dozens or hundreds of different exchanges all over the world in dozens or hundreds of different countries. Pay the fees.
Use offshore accounts, straw men, and cash.
1. Send to dozens or hundreds of different bank accounts all over the world in dozens or hundreds of different countries. Pay the fees.
How to Launder Money using cryptocurrencies:
1. Send to dozens or hundreds of different exchanges all over the world in dozens or hundreds of different countries. Pay the fees.
Use offshore accounts, straw men, and cash.
its more easier with bitcoin, where did you get this idea from its harder? the user can remain totally anonymous if he has some basic skills of tor etc. plus its non reversible.
I've said it was not possible since I first was introduced to it at a meetup. There was even a lawyer there and his explanation never made sense to me either.
Money laundering is, to me, making "dirty money" clean. What constitutes 'dirty money"? It is any money gotten from illegal activity. What constitutes "clean money"? Anything in a bank account, real estate, merchandise etc. that can pass through the financial system without drawing scrutiny. I'm not sure but I don't think AML even kicks in when transferring large amounts of money from one bank to another because the money coming in is assumed to be clean. It is the cash deposits that the criminals are trying to make clean, not the digital ones.
So criminal has 1 million in cash and buys 1 million Bitcoin with it. He no longer has cash but as Bitcoin. Someone else has the cash so what happens when they try to deposit it? AML! The could just keep it in cash like the criminal does but it is still not "clean money".
So now the criminal has 1 million worth of Bitcoin and puts them in an exchange. he buys, sells trades etc. Then he opts out and they send him a check. The question comes down to whether the check represents "dirty" or "clean" money? The problem is that the exchange enabled the Bitcoin to enter the banking system and become "clean" because it is now digitized.
The moral of the story is that the only money considered "clean" is the fraudulent digital money and all cash money (whether acquired legitimately or not) is "dirty".
Money laundering is, to me, making "dirty money" clean. What constitutes 'dirty money"? It is any money gotten from illegal activity. What constitutes "clean money"? Anything in a bank account, real estate, merchandise etc. that can pass through the financial system without drawing scrutiny. I'm not sure but I don't think AML even kicks in when transferring large amounts of money from one bank to another because the money coming in is assumed to be clean. It is the cash deposits that the criminals are trying to make clean, not the digital ones.
So criminal has 1 million in cash and buys 1 million Bitcoin with it. He no longer has cash but as Bitcoin. Someone else has the cash so what happens when they try to deposit it? AML! The could just keep it in cash like the criminal does but it is still not "clean money".
So now the criminal has 1 million worth of Bitcoin and puts them in an exchange. he buys, sells trades etc. Then he opts out and they send him a check. The question comes down to whether the check represents "dirty" or "clean" money? The problem is that the exchange enabled the Bitcoin to enter the banking system and become "clean" because it is now digitized.
The moral of the story is that the only money considered "clean" is the fraudulent digital money and all cash money (whether acquired legitimately or not) is "dirty".
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