Money Laundering "Not Possible" with Bitcoin? - page 3.

enhu

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Quote from: romero121 on February 01, 2016, 11:25:15 PM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 01, 2016, 11:06:22 PM

It seems like another discussion about how to be anonymous to use bitcoin. As long as you can get online using a random network (like hacking into a WEP wifi network), and you use a device that is obtained without needing your ID (like "borrowing" from a stranger?), then you can be anonymous.

But then, how are you going to change your coin back to fiat is the other issue....

buying from a user and using will surely make some issues. To my knowledge most of the people don't try to get into such stuffs. Eventhough if something is borrowed from a stranger without proper id one can be easily tracked with these days technologies. Blankly we can't say that money laundering not possible. There might be people who has involved in it.

Politicians or business men who wants to go abroad and won't have to bring USD10K would probably be involved.
Probably expats on some 3rd world country wanted to bring their money to safety which they may have gotten it illegally. Corrupt officials are most probably into it.

crossabdd

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Quote from: owm123 on February 01, 2016, 07:51:52 PM

Quote from: jerowacik on February 01, 2016, 07:31:34 PM

it could happen. even more easily than by other means. because bitcoin is anonymouse and very easy to carry out financial transactions with bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Even UK treasury in its report even indicated that crypto currencies pose low risk for them regarding money laundering.

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

how about bitcoin mixing service like bitmixer, Im sure this srevice will help more people to be anonmous and the transcation willl be hard to track it

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: countryfree on February 01, 2016, 07:42:49 PM

Money laundering is possible with any currency, electronic or fiat. A public ledger can even be useful for money laundering. It's a perfect proof that a transaction was real. What's not in the ledger though, is the proof that some service was done, or that some goods were exchanged. The blockchain is a great tool for creative accounting...

Gosh, I could sell methods to launder money with BTC!

I just purchased ten thousand and eight copies of a book entitled Methods to Launder Money with Bitcoin.

Full Disclosure: countryfree may or may not be a nym in my control.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: silvaedium on February 01, 2016, 07:33:05 PM

Of course it's not possible. It's easier to launder money with cash than it is with Bitcoin. With Bitcoin every single transaction is tracked and logged and stored forever. That's not the case with cash.

This right here. Much easier with cold, hard cash. But it's definitely not impossible because other folks have mentioned the mixing services and such, and I think converting to some other altcoin on an exchange and then back again is another method. Harder but not impossible.

bitbaby

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 01, 2016, 11:06:22 PM

It seems like another discussion about how to be anonymous to use bitcoin. As long as you can get online using a random network (like hacking into a WEP wifi network), and you use a device that is obtained without needing your ID (like "borrowing" from a stranger?), then you can be anonymous.

But then, how are you going to change your coin back to fiat is the other issue....

Thats the whole point, you can send btc from one place to the another anonymously but converting it back and forth would require you to lose your anonymity, even if you do cash trades, the other person would see you and know you and some day you can get caught.

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 01, 2016, 11:06:22 PM

It seems like another discussion about how to be anonymous to use bitcoin. As long as you can get online using a random network (like hacking into a WEP wifi network), and you use a device that is obtained without needing your ID (like "borrowing" from a stranger?), then you can be anonymous.

But then, how are you going to change your coin back to fiat is the other issue....

buying from a user and using will surely make some issues. To my knowledge most of the people don't try to get into such stuffs. Eventhough if something is borrowed from a stranger without proper id one can be easily tracked with these days technologies. Blankly we can't say that money laundering not possible. There might be people who has involved in it.

7788bitcoin

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It seems like another discussion about how to be anonymous to use bitcoin. As long as you can get online using a random network (like hacking into a WEP wifi network), and you use a device that is obtained without needing your ID (like "borrowing" from a stranger?), then you can be anonymous.

But then, how are you going to change your coin back to fiat is the other issue....

enhu

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Quote from: cjmoles on February 01, 2016, 06:39:01 PM

Quote from: achow101 on February 01, 2016, 06:25:50 PM

I'm not so sure about that. Although Bitcoin is not anonymous, it is still pseudonymous. If you are looking at transactions, you don't know who exactly is behind an address and where those Bitcoins in that address came from. You don't know whether the money is from fraud or from legitimate business. And with mixing services and through other methods of anonymization like CoinJoin, it can make tracing Bitcoin extremely difficulty such that it is impossible to know who actually committed a crime and used Bitcoin to launder the money.

True. However, when it is time to convert from bitcoin back to fiat, problems will once again arise. It's at that point where the person cashing the coin would need to show the legitimacy of their income. If suddenly I were cashing out +10K USD, then alarms would be triggered and I would have to show where that income came from when asked.

So less than $10K would still be possible. $9K is enough of a motivation to do something miraculous by using mixers or simply exchange sites so long as they use fake IDs.
the may even make it hard for those who want to track transactions by going into different mixers and then mix it again and then send few coins to each address and then mix again before turning it into fiat.

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Quote from: puckmany on February 01, 2016, 09:49:19 PM

Nothing, but what is stopping your bank to declare bankrupt??

For once banks are insured and regulated by government. I dont know of any mixers insured against theft, especially underground mixers.

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I dont think so..bitcoin is anonymous.so i think it will be easier for them who wanted money laundry..isnt is like that?correct me if im wrong...

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Nothing, but what is stopping your bank to declare bankrupt??

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Quote from: wafersticks09 on February 01, 2016, 09:28:27 PM

It is possible underground sites is using bitcoin in every transaction they are doing. There are mixers so theres no worry.

What's stopping the underground sites or mixers just running with bunch of your bitcoins, or just announcing " we got hacked, all bitcoin gone"? If you like trusting third parties with serious bitcoin transactions, then I hope you know what you are doing.

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It is possible underground sites is using bitcoin in every transaction they are doing. There are mixers so theres no worry.

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Quote from: mtnsaa on February 01, 2016, 06:56:52 PM

Yes and I also feel that you could make an infinite loop and multiaddresses to fool an investigation or at least obfuscate it. If someone wants to launder money with Bitcoin I feel it's very easy to do even if the transactions are exposed, remember that to gather the evidence to prove that you hold that wallet would be a problem in the first place.

That still doesn't make it anonymous though. Won't be an infinite loop. Just a lot of manpower to go through all the addresses.

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That's easy: Buy bitcoin in cash. Sell bitcoin for cash. From people who probably won't keep a record of the transaction. (You could always use a straw man; that's how the real "bad" guys do it.)

I just buy from exchanges using unverified accounts. Much easier that way. After that, it bounces a few times to a bunch of different addresses, then it just stops moving (at that point, it has already been traded to something else, or mixed or whatever).

Cashing out, well, I've never had to exchange more than a thousand coins, so I don't know how easy or hard it is to do larger amounts if needed.

owm123

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Quote from: BeetcoinScummer on February 01, 2016, 08:01:48 PM

Quote from: owm123 on February 01, 2016, 07:51:52 PM

Quote from: jerowacik on February 01, 2016, 07:31:34 PM

it could happen. even more easily than by other means. because bitcoin is anonymouse and very easy to carry out financial transactions with bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Even UK treasury in its report even indicated that crypto currencies pose low risk for them regarding money laundering.

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

My email address is not me.
My IP addresses are not mine.
My wallet does not run on my computer and not even in my country.

So tell me, how will you know who I am?

Its not about me knowing who you are. But do you really think that law enforcement, spy agencies, would not be able ever to find who you are and what bitcoin are your if they really wanted? If you really believe in that, then good luck. Hope you will have more luck than those from the silk road that had to learn the hard way, they they are not invisible.

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Quote from: BeetcoinScummer on February 01, 2016, 08:01:48 PM

Quote from: owm123 on February 01, 2016, 07:51:52 PM

Quote from: jerowacik on February 01, 2016, 07:31:34 PM

it could happen. even more easily than by other means. because bitcoin is anonymouse and very easy to carry out financial transactions with bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Even UK treasury in its report even indicated that crypto currencies pose low risk for them regarding money laundering.

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

My email address is not me.
My IP addresses are not mine.
My wallet does not run on my computer and not even in my country.

So tell me, how will you know who I am?

You have to get your money in and out somehow. Those are the places where AML/KYC regulation takes place. Not only that but the trail can be tracked back the entire way.

BeetcoinScummer

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Quote from: owm123 on February 01, 2016, 07:51:52 PM

Quote from: jerowacik on February 01, 2016, 07:31:34 PM

it could happen. even more easily than by other means. because bitcoin is anonymouse and very easy to carry out financial transactions with bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Even UK treasury in its report even indicated that crypto currencies pose low risk for them regarding money laundering.

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

My email address is not me.
My IP addresses are not mine.
My wallet does not run on my computer and not even in my country.

So tell me, how will you know who I am?

BTCBinary

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Even if bitcoin isn't completely anonymous it stills gives you a certain maneuberability that enables you to launder money. But there are a lot of ways to do that without it as well.

owm123

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Quote from: jerowacik on February 01, 2016, 07:31:34 PM

it could happen. even more easily than by other means. because bitcoin is anonymouse and very easy to carry out financial transactions with bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Even UK treasury in its report even indicated that crypto currencies pose low risk for them regarding money laundering.

http://www.coindesk.com/uk-treasury-digital-currencies-low-money-laundering-risk/

Topic: Money Laundering "Not Possible" with Bitcoin? - page 3. (Read 2642 times)