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Topic: Money laundering via BTC - page 32. (Read 39481 times)

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
January 19, 2017, 08:56:47 PM
   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?

The answer to this is yes, they can be stopped. But it should start from the very root. Before a criminal could launder his/her money by using a bitcoin, for sure they will use exchange sites to deposit their money. That is where everything should start. Know the identity of those who wants to deposit in an exchange, ask where their funds came from and put it on the record, just in case the government wants to ask it, that way, in case the government is starting to trace them and their money, the record is a great evidence.

In case they buy from a person, then that's a different case, but for sure, the one that will sold them bitcoin will also be liable.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
January 19, 2017, 08:51:37 PM
   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?

no, there is not.  in its current form, bitcoin is ideal for money laundering.  what happens prior to the funds becoming bitcoin and what happens after they are exchanged may be controlled, but the question implies that it speaks about the funds during the bitcoin process and there is no stopping the nature of the code without it becoming something that is no longer bitcoin
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
January 19, 2017, 08:46:55 PM
   When we talk about money laundering I think we need to know that criminals are smarter now then before, and no matter how much governments are trying to end this with new techniques criminals always find a way to cheat the system. I`m sure that criminals are using bitcoins for their illegal activities, I`m just not sure how will someone stop them. Bitcoin offer anonymity, but at what cost? I pass through all this topic, and I didnt find answer on questions that bothers me. Is there a way to prevent criminals from using bitcoins in illegal purposes?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
January 19, 2017, 08:39:20 PM
This is a serious problem that must be get solutions, do not ever think that bitcoin will be accepted many peoples or countries even if the presumption bitcoin is a great place for money laundering. Anonymous makes bitcoin as a paradise for money laundering. Let's find a solution together to stop this issued.

you may be right, but history has shown that first a small group of people follow the money, however it is generated, more people join that group and then the sheep herds follow last.  the usa is built on the blood money of domestic and foreign wars, loans from other countries never paid back, revenue and empires built on slave trade, import and export of drugs, war machines and weapons and other various ambiguous endeavors

i owned lockheed martin stock on 9-10-01 and also on 9-11-01.  because they build aircraft for war and weapons, the ten minutes surrounding 9-11 showed a near doubling in stock price, based directly on the assumption of the actions that would follow a terrorist attack.  no one tossed their stock certificates in the street because the price increase came at the cost of some 4000 people followed by a war costing many more lives. 

the deciding factors for bitcoins will be convenience, value and other factors, not the possible uses of it.  this is crude, but true, announce to the public that a huge spike in miscarriages is coming and that the value of xyz pharm stocks is going to triple and they will say very sad things, WHILE BUYING STOCK

it is the fear of these drug cartels and terrorists and other groups that cause individuals and families to build strong investments and prepare for an unknown future.  without checking, i can be very sure that the US Dollar has been used to launder more money than most other currencies on the planet, just based on demographics and being one of the big five and it is still used without a single tear
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
January 19, 2017, 08:11:56 PM
This is a serious problem that must be get solutions, do not ever think that bitcoin will be accepted many peoples or countries even if the presumption bitcoin is a great place for money laundering. Anonymous makes bitcoin as a paradise for money laundering. Let's find a solution together to stop this issued.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
January 19, 2017, 07:28:14 PM
Go to Marketplace like LBC(localbitcoins) and you will find people buying BTC at much higher rate than Actual rate , for bulk they are offering much more , so who are they?? They are the launders who are converting their excess money to bitcoin.

Yeah..Money becomes headache when you have much..

while that is 99% of the time true, there are still some people out there that produced their little bitcoin bag from early mining and just plain silly little tasks.  to some of these people they don't see the value in what they are holding.  it is like someone came in there house and said that people were paying cash for Monopoly money and rather than try to $500 for the $500 bill, they say screw it, free money and sell the whole lot for $50.

even one of our small investments brings in $25 in BTC weekly.  If we had never made the mental transition to see the true value in that we could dump them every week for $10 and grab fast food.  
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285
Flying Hellfish is a Commie
January 19, 2017, 07:27:38 PM
Without a doubt possible through some pretty easy mixing services on here, one of the biggest ones would have to be bitmixer. Though, this is kind of a weird to ask this on such a public forum!
hero member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 500
January 19, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
Very simple stuff. Create business, build business, accept btc and buy your own service with your own btc. Pay the small amount of tax and you have clean money. One simple method of hundreds or thousands out there.
Lol it looks like you've experienced to eliminate the traces after carrying out illegal activities. indeed with bitcoin you can do the laundering of money, so that you will avoid taxes or else
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!
January 19, 2017, 05:45:53 PM
Is it possible to do money laundering via bitcoin? I mean as no one knows if you have bitcoin and how much bitcoin do you actually own, it could be used to convert black money to white right? Or at least store your black money without much hassle. But there is the risk of its value but I think for people who have lots of black money and don't want to be caught, this risk might be worth taking for them isn't it?
What are your thoughts?

When someone buys BTC with "dirty" money that's not exactly a money laundering. Assume you have lots of BTC, now what? If you'd buy an expensive car or a house with those BTC it would be still suspicious as if you'd bought them with the "dirty" money. Money laundering is when you buy a business and then make it to appear that it is profitable, although in reality it is not, and make people believe you made a lot of money from that business. Thus you might lose 30% of your "dirty money", but 70% of it would be "clean".
Correct, money laundering is the act of making illegal money legal and just buying bitcoin does not make it legal , you just transformed your wealth from fiat form to bitcoin form, maybe someone could try to make his earnings seem come from trading or casino earnings and then cash out.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
January 19, 2017, 12:11:11 PM
It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in courts if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not.

Its not a claim.

Its a fact.

You not knowing its a fact is proof you lack knowledge on the topic.

Expecting others to teach you things you have no will to learn on your own, only leaves you at the mercy of those who are educated

What is the point of you debating over this?

You said that the cases of people using Android apps for money laundering had been well documented, so I guess you could as well expect to be asked who exactly documented these cases since that would make a devastating difference. If they were documented in court trials on money laundering issues as I assume, this pretty much tells the worthiness, or rather futility of this approach to the task in question. What does it have to do with my alleged lack of knowledge on the topic as you now claim?
sr. member
Activity: 812
Merit: 253
●Social Crypto Trading●
January 19, 2017, 11:42:47 AM
Money laundering will always go on. I matter ehst form we use to trade with. There will always be illigal activity and crime where valuables are consierned. People have murdered one another over valuewbles since the begining of time so they would need to hide where these sudden riches came from as to avoid detection from the law.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
www.tgtcoins.com/ico
January 19, 2017, 11:38:34 AM
Go to Marketplace like LBC(localbitcoins) and you will find people buying BTC at much higher rate than Actual rate , for bulk they are offering much more , so who are they?? They are the launders who are converting their excess money to bitcoin.

Yeah..Money becomes headache when you have much..
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
January 19, 2017, 11:32:14 AM
I think this all happened in a larger scale when Silk Road was still alive and Bitcoin was unheard of. I would never consider Bitcoin for "hiding" really, in fact blockchain technology is basically a public ledger where it's not that difficult to track private information if you really want (and have the power to enforce it). Check Coinbase latest news and you'll see how easy it is once governments start paying attention. There's a whole other debate about BTC fungibility too and that's what's the deep issue here. Anyone can use most financial tools available for illegal activities, cash is the primary example.

don't forget that even things like paypal had their hay day of money laundering because you technically never showed your face anywhere or proved your identity.  but the big difference is that paypal, forex trading, or whatever someone considers as a function for money laundering is part of the system, within the system.  paypal account balances are meaningless unless they can be sent to another account, bank account or whatever.  the government can fully and completely take over control of paypal if they ever cared to.  bitcoin is a system outside the system.  they can put controls on the avenues in and out of the block chain, but they can't control the block chain. 
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1000
January 19, 2017, 11:14:07 AM
I think this all happened in a larger scale when Silk Road was still alive and Bitcoin was unheard of. I would never consider Bitcoin for "hiding" really, in fact blockchain technology is basically a public ledger where it's not that difficult to track private information if you really want (and have the power to enforce it). Check Coinbase latest news and you'll see how easy it is once governments start paying attention. There's a whole other debate about BTC fungibility too and that's what's the deep issue here. Anyone can use most financial tools available for illegal activities, cash is the primary example.
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
January 19, 2017, 11:09:57 AM
It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in courts if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not.

Its not a claim.

Its a fact.

You not knowing its a fact is proof you lack knowledge on the topic.

Expecting others to teach you things you have no will to learn on your own, only leaves you at the mercy of those who are educated.

 Smiley
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
January 19, 2017, 09:14:32 AM
Someone that is in desperate need of money will offer you a deal and when you decline they will sweeten the pot, and finally beg you to "buy" or "trade".  They need the money and the biggest trust issue with them is the fact that they believe they will come through for you, but may fail, not due to intentional theft.  Crooked scammers keep the deal moving, no matter what. If they lose steam, they lose the mark.  They want you slightly confused, convinced you are not confused and they do not want you seeking advice or catching your breath.  The desperate person has only one deal to offer, but the scammer may produce alternatives and changes to get you to bite.  The scammers last move is to cease talking and drop the ball in your court, stating that their time is very limited.  Someone that is interested in making a deal with honest intent, or trying to honestly help will try for a bit and then leave it to you. The difference in the end from the scammer is that they will leave the future open for you, letting you know that they are there anytime you change your mind, but that they cannot waste more time trying to convince you

No offense intended but you sound as if you were a scammer yourself

And now you are sharing the secrets of the trade with us. Though I disagree that scammers are always keeping the deal moving, no matter what. Once I read some pretty scientific investigation into the matter (namely, into the so-called Nigerian Prince emails aimed at extorting money), and the conclusion was that the scammers drop communication instantly as soon as it becomes evident to them that their target won't bite since continuing would be a waste of time and effort for them

Deisik, you're referring to the "419 scams" that were famous for originating in Nigeria - I think I also read the same research into it. Scammers are a lot more complex in operating than we give them credit for. The 419 scammers aren't much different from the ones here. Wittingly or not, they actually know the type of people most likely to get conned, and will only move the deal for as long as the targets fit the profile. As soon as it doesn't, they drop the target.

The mistake we make is our underestimation of scammers. We liken them to be immature, below average in intelligence and uneducated. While it is true that a lot of their methods are unsophisticated and their language awkward, this in fact can be deliberate and helps ensure the right targets are attracted. And scammers who recognise our underestimation then give us what we want: maturity, intelligence and educated manners.

yeah, it's also a lot of work for these guys, not saying they deserve anything, but boring, endless type of work.  like real-life hacking.  there are no fancy gui's to most hacking software, just some code run from the command line.  most of what they do is find a target or two, plug in the ip's or whatever and watch a long, nearly endless string of line after line of failure until something works.  these scammers, more general scammers like the 419 are using bots and scripts to scan websites, chatting with six or more potential marks at a time and all this might end in some big payoff, but likely they will net about the same as you and me, while at the same time looking over their shoulder, waiting for the knock on the door and possibly moving from one place to another, changing names and never having real friends, real family or a real life
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
January 19, 2017, 09:06:11 AM
And who documented these cases?

I guess they have been documented exactly by some anti-money laundering agency after they caught someone actually trying out that. Really, how would you know otherwise? If you read about some scheme for money laundering and which is not an outright invention of someone's runaway imagination at that, you can be pretty sure that it had been tried and it didn't work out. Working schemes for laundering money are kept top secret, else they are no longer working since anti-money laundering agencies would be quite familiar with them by that time

Do some research and find out for yourself.

I don't think its fair for people who haven't bothered to educate themselves to speak as if they have knowledge on topics like money laundering.

It might seem improbable to you, but you know nothing on the topic. So that makes sense

It was your claim after all that the cases of people using that method to launder money were documented

So it is up to you to provide evidence proving it, namely, who documented them, else you are a loud mouth (no offense, there are many such here). I assume these cases were documented in court rulings and police reports if at all. Note that it doesn't have anything to do with whether I have knowledge on topics like this or not. In this manner, your appeal to education (or lack thereof) is pretty much inconsequential to the point, and you won't be able to get anywhere with that (obviously, I won't bite on this, try another approach). On the other hand, I can just as easily retort that you yourself know nothing about money laundering since you don't provide any proofs and my claim has more substance since you really declined to prove your point, and now what?
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
January 19, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
And who documented these cases?

I guess they have been documented exactly by some anti-money laundering agency after they caught someone actually trying out that. Really, how would you know otherwise? If you read about some scheme for money laundering and which is not an outright invention of someone's runaway imagination at that, you can be pretty sure that it had been tried and it didn't work out. Working schemes for laundering money are kept top secret, else they are no longer working since anti-money laundering agencies would be quite familiar with them by that time

Do some research and find out for yourself.

I don't think its fair for people who haven't bothered to educate themselves to speak as if they have knowledge on topics like money laundering.

It might seem improbable to you, but you know nothing on the topic. So that makes sense.

 Smiley
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 507
January 19, 2017, 08:39:21 AM
Illegal activities like money laundering cannot be stopped unless its closely monitored on all wallet sites but there were lots of them threats the wallet of laundering money. Btc has its good foundation if we talk comfort of using it, likewise its not impossible that crypto currency will be more prone to this kind of illegal act of money laundering, you know the reason why? That's because digital currency is not transparent to government authorities unlike fiat currency over banking network is monitored closely. Online wallet site has their own policies for anti money laundering which should be complied prior having a wallet address for bitcoin payments.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 500
January 19, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
Very simple stuff. Create business, build business, accept btc and buy your own service with your own btc. Pay the small amount of tax and you have clean money. One simple method of hundreds or thousands out there.


The thing there if your business is legit? If you can easily run away by that then you simply can be a part of a money laundering scheme again. Aside from that creating a business is never been easy especially for me(or most of us here small time earners)
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