MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet - page 56.

RHavar

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Activity: 1463

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Quote from: CryForMeSky on April 11, 2015, 06:48:34 PM

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge). MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it. In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

That's right, I reworked the example where the numbers this time should add up. The issue was only affecting the example, not the code (which does these calculations properly). Thanks for pointing out the mistake, btw )

Landplop

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Don't feed the trolls

Quote from: CryForMeSky on April 11, 2015, 06:48:34 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 11, 2015, 06:43:09 PM

still doesnt make sense

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge). MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it. In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

Every script is made to win, because of house edge.

CryForMeSky

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 103

Quote from: leen93 on April 11, 2015, 06:43:09 PM

still doesnt make sense

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge). MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it. In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: CryForMeSky on April 11, 2015, 06:39:23 PM

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.

Opps. Let me redo the worked example. The code itself for this works fine, it's just the example I screwed up. I was just trying to eyeball some round numbers for the example, and never actually realized it was -EV

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

Quote from: CryForMeSky on April 11, 2015, 06:39:23 PM

Quote from: RHavar on April 11, 2015, 06:11:41 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 11, 2015, 05:24:29 PM

This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

I'm not quite sure I understand your complaint, but investors certainly never taking an unprofitable bet. I tried to clean up the explanation on the FAQ, could you give it a reread and see if it's a bit more clear?

"Now if the gambler wins (20% chance), the investor loses. If the gambler loses (80% chance), the investor wins. But the investor is only going to win 1.23x which is 0.92 BTC profit, not the 1 BTC that the gambler lost. Vault itself takes the spread (1 - 0.92 BTC), to use to fund the service and pay the app for giving us the bet."

In this scenario:

20% of the time the investors lose 4BTC.
80% of the time the investors win .92BTC.

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.

still doesnt make sense

Landplop

member

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Merit: 10

Don't feed the trolls

So it is a bitcoin wallet, play money and invest money in one?

That is really nicd man.

CryForMeSky

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Quote from: RHavar on April 11, 2015, 06:11:41 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 11, 2015, 05:24:29 PM

This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

I'm not quite sure I understand your complaint, but investors certainly never taking an unprofitable bet. I tried to clean up the explanation on the FAQ, could you give it a reread and see if it's a bit more clear?

"Now if the gambler wins (20% chance), the investor loses. If the gambler loses (80% chance), the investor wins. But the investor is only going to win 1.23x which is 0.92 BTC profit, not the 1 BTC that the gambler lost. Vault itself takes the spread (1 - 0.92 BTC), to use to fund the service and pay the app for giving us the bet."

In this scenario:

20% of the time the investors lose 4BTC.
80% of the time the investors win .92BTC.

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.

dznuts85

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

You have investment feature, do you plan on adding kelly?

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: leen93 on April 11, 2015, 05:24:29 PM

This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

I'm not quite sure I understand your complaint, but investors certainly never taking an unprofitable bet. I tried to clean up the explanation on the FAQ, could you give it a reread and see if it's a bit more clear?

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

What commissions do you charge?
We do not charge commissions, but rather make money on a spread. Let's say an app gives us the bet 1 BTC @ 20% chance of 4x we look at this bet, and create an inverse bet for the investors: 4 BTC @ 80% of 1.25x and check that the bankroll is big enough to accept it (by applying the kelly criterion). We then minimize the multiplier, to find the worst acceptable bet that is a good deal for the investors, which might be: 4 BTC @ 80% of 1.2x. Now if the gambler wins (20% chance), the investor loses. If the gambler loses (80% chance), the investor wins. But the investor is only going to win 1.2x which is 0.8 BTC profit, not the 1 BTC that the gambler lost. Vault itself takes this, to use to fund the service and pay the app for giving us the bet. So in this situation:

Gambler got the bet he wanted
Investor got a +EV, kelly-satisfying bet for free
Referring app makes a risk-free profit, for bringing the gambler to the table
So even though it's win-win, it is worth remembering investors take 100% of the risk, for (0,1] of the reward.

So investors get on average for 1 btc investment : 80% *1.2 btc = 0.96 btc
even investors have a negative odd of winning?
This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: shulio on April 11, 2015, 03:47:30 PM

I see , thank you for clearing that up, but the words app - developers does it means that sites owner?

Yeah

Quote

Since there are a few reputable sites in here, will this actually means that moneypot will target a new sites to provide a safe bet for user rather than asking the reputable sites to join moneypot.com?

Our immediate focus is on stability, and polish. We are trying to get dustdice world-class by implementing all required features in MoneyPot that that would require (a faucet, stats, a chat server), and once we have that we'll start approaching game developers and people who can make great gambling games.

galbros

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1000

I get the wallet aspect of the site, dooglus gave a nice summary, but I don't understand the investment, what are investors investing in? Are they investing in dustdice's bankroll? bustabits? Something else?

I've read the FAQ and it really doesn't explain what you are investing in, is there a dice site built into the new moneypot?

Thanks and good luck!

shulio

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1016

Quote from: RHavar on April 11, 2015, 03:39:50 PM

Quote from: shulio on April 11, 2015, 03:02:03 PM

the above quote is quite confusing, what does it means by "our bankroll?" . Do you mean dustdice bankroll? or could you mean the entire user of vault bankroll? and by the words profit , does this means that it will be the investment profit or the profit we made from our bet?

I'll clean that up. By "our bankroll", it means MoneyPot.com's bankroll. We offer a bankroll as a service, which will accept most kinds of bets. As an app developer, you can use this bankroll to service your players bets.

I see , thank you for clearing that up, but the words app - developers does it means that sites owner?
Since there are a few reputable sites in here, will this actually means that moneypot will target a new sites to provide a safe bet for user rather than asking the reputable sites to join moneypot.com?

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: shulio on April 11, 2015, 03:02:03 PM

the above quote is quite confusing, what does it means by "our bankroll?" . Do you mean dustdice bankroll? or could you mean the entire user of vault bankroll? and by the words profit , does this means that it will be the investment profit or the profit we made from our bet?

I'll clean that up. By "our bankroll", it means MoneyPot.com's bankroll. We offer a bankroll as a service, which will accept most kinds of bets. As an app developer, you can use this bankroll to service your players bets.

It'll make more sense if you read and the Investor FAQ first. By profit, I mean the difference between what we pay investors and what we pay users. Let's say a user did a bet that lost 1 BTC, and we gave 0.99 BTC to the investors (to make it in their interests to accept that bet) it would mean we made a profit of 0.01 BTC. And of that we give you, the app developer, 50% of it in exchange for sending us the bet. So the app developer in this case would have made 0.005 BTC of risk-free money.

Superhitech

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Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Are there any plans to incorparate bustabit.com with moneypot.com in the future?

shulio

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1016

Quote

Vault is 100% free, both for users and app developers. On all bets against our bankroll we do take a 50% share of all profit you make

the above quote is quite confusing, what does it means by "our bankroll?" . Do you mean dustdice bankroll? or could you mean the entire user of vault bankroll? and by the words profit , does this means that it will be the investment profit or the profit we made from our bet?

boopy265420

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1005

If I understand well means in future many other site could be connected to this e-vault and funds would be used anywhere ? This is astonishing idea we can keep funds in online vault and through some application can use it on different site just by allowing them and can revoke access whenever we want.

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: dooglus on April 11, 2015, 02:01:23 PM

As I understand it, one of the selling points of MoneyPot is that the gambling sites you deposit to using it never get access to the coins you deposit unless you lose them, and so players don't need to trust new gambling sites which use MoneyPot, they only need to trust you.

That is one of the design goals of MoneyPot.

An app can only access its app balance (which can instantly be refilled, and maintains a complete audit history), but there are no restrictions of what the app can do with that balance. This is something with time we were thinking about re-adding. Your app balance always lives on MoneyPot.com, so you can at anytime revoke permissions to the app or pull money from the app balance.

Quote

As the player loses coins on a MoneyPot-linked gambling site the player's balance (at MoneyPot) is debited and the site's balance (at MoneyPot) is credited. To get their coins the gambling site requests a withdrawal from their MoneyPot account.

Did I get that right?

That is correct

erwin45hacked

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Activity: 1064

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Pony789 on April 11, 2015, 02:11:04 PM

Quote from: Mehek on April 11, 2015, 02:07:55 PM

That is not a new gambling site its a pritty old and intresting one...i love to play in it but never with huge amounts

Have you clicked the link, or read the OP, or at least read the thread topic "A bitcoin gambling wallet" before making this post?

Some people only post without actually click on the site, It will be because that the sites takes the name of the previous moneypot.com name, that people assume it will be the same

If you check on the sites, it is like an online wallet with investment feature for the sites that intergrated with moneypot, plus much more secure

Pony789

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Activity: 882

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Quote from: Mehek on April 11, 2015, 02:07:55 PM

That is not a new gambling site its a pritty old and intresting one...i love to play in it but never with huge amounts

Have you clicked the link, or read the OP, or at least read the thread topic "A bitcoin gambling wallet" before making this post?

Topic: MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet - page 56. (Read 77137 times)