Topic: Most Durable Hardware Wallets (Read 324 times)

That's definitely true--and I can envision scenarios where idiots like me would drop a HW wallet in the toilet.  I think at a minimum any HW wallet should be able to survive a toilet; if it fails that test, it's certainly not going to make it through a flood, a swimming pool, or some drunk dickhead pissing on it.

This is a great experiment to do, IMO, although personally I'm not too concerned about heavy damage so much as a device ceasing to work over time.  In fact, I'm way more concerned about ease of use than something being near-indestructable.  Like the Bitbox 02; I like the user interface but it makes my mouse slow down and skip to the extent that I don't even use it anymore.  Anyway, good luck!

He hits like a girl! I bet it's the first time he uses that brand new looking hammer.

If I hit a device with a hammer, I expect it to break.

If anyone wondered how easy is to destroy Keystone hardware wallet and how it looks after that, you don't have to do it anymore.
One very unhappy customer Michael Blast posted short video and photos of this ''procedure'' and he used hammer as his main instrument
He called Keystone a garbage, but he never explained what exactly happened to get him so angry.

Video ''procedure'' (if anyone knows how to do it, please archive this video):
https://twitter.com/MikeTampa69/status/1640810776666558467

Aftermath photo:

https://twitter.com/MikeTampa69/status/1640806004840452121

Thanks to latest information from maxirosson, we know that Keystone is made from fiberglass.
Maybe they will improve something in new generation device they are working on.

The chip can be destroyed by a strong electromagnetic force that can appear for example at the checkout counter of supermarkets or medical applications. So if you carry your satochip around all day I would be careful and definitely have some kind backup plan if the cards fail. In general cards like this are a very proven technology that does not easily fail and it is much more likely that it is lost/Stolen than that it is somehow destroyed.

Is that apply for all credit cards and similar devices or Satochip has something special that other devices don't have?
I saw Tangem card wallet being tested in ice and water and it passed without an issue, I think it would probably survive smash with a hammer unless chip was directly hit and destroyed.

That is correct, but I think it's not hard to achieve water resistance for small devices, if you put then in sealed waterproof plastic bag.
Similar thing can be achieved for protection against fire, using fireproof bag or materials that can resist high temperatures.
I would still like to have one ''tank'' hardware wallet that can survive almost anything, but I don't expect all of them will be like that.

Yeah, it's not fair to compare it from one side only because there are still other features that can be compared. Each hardware wallet certainly has its advantages and disadvantages.
It's pretty scary to see some hardware wallets like the Trezor One being deliberately tested by being hit with a hard object like a hammer.

I haven't seen anyone test the Trezor T like in the video link in the OP.

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And I did not want to test my Trezor T by hitting it with a hammer or poking it with a screwdriver because you can guess the results.

That's because it's not really a hardware wallet. It's a debit/credit card with hardware wallet functionalities. It's an unfair comparison from the start in weight, design, hardware components, everything. You don't throw a human and ladybug off of a balcony to see which one suffers the most damage. We now the winner beforehand.   

Looks fine to me, which leads to the conclusion that you know how to take care of your belongings.

I've seen some of the videos on the links the OP listed. The conclusion I got from several tests, especially for minor incidents that usually occur, such as falling or being splashed with water, is that the hardware wallet in the form of a smartcard is more durable.

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I even keep the Trezor T and Ledger Nano X in a safe box (the Ledger Nano X is more often used and rarely stored in the box) with water and fire resistance because the main feature of the two hardware wallets is not to be resistant to it all.

The condition after being used for a long time: Re: Show off your hardware wallet.

Yeah... I'm a big fan of "the less tech you have, the longer you will stay". And yes, cards are "waterproof".
You can immerse chipcard in (non-corrosive) liquid for several minutes without any effect on the hardware. I'm doing it everytime I drink a beer and show a demo of our cards

In many cases people have a bitcoin investment with less then 1000 USD. If the hardware wallet is created from high quality materials you can easily see prices that would even take away 30-50% of that initial investment. This makes absolutely no sense, so we see devices that cost only 80 USD and are made with cheap materials.

The idea to test hardware wallets for durability isn't bad in itself. But I don't agree with the notion that a hardware wallet is supposed to be designed to survive fires, water, crashing buildings, and the like. I don't expect that of my laptops, my phones, or my hardware wallets.

I wouldn't buy a hardware wallet for $800 because it can survive being thrown down the stairs. If you asked 1000 people, very few would think that's a good idea and something they expect.

The other thing is, this is completely subjective to the kind of person you are generally and how you take care of your belongings. You posted a picture of a Nano S with a cracked case. That could mean the device uses low quality materials in the building process and/or that you are clumsy and can't keep your stuff in order. That's your HW, do you want to see mine? You can check it in my Show off your hardware wallet thread. It still looks new after several years of usage. My Trezor One is a few months old but in a few years from now, it's still going to look brand-new. Because that's the type of person I am. I don't drop my stuff or hit it with a hammer.

Maybe an electronic component will break in one of them despite me being careful (that's out of my control) but It's not going to have a cracked case like yours. Stop breaking your shit, and the shit will last.

There is a also the 'real world' factor.

I would not say that my coldcard is particularity durable. Thin plastic not well sealed against the elements. But, it survived having a cup of coffee spilled all over it. I dried it off, rinsed it with some alcohol / contact cleaner and it still works fine. Had I dropped it on the floor and ran it over with my office chair, which was what I did to something else which was how the entire coffee thing started, I would probably have destroyed it.

-Dave

I think common sense is enough in some cases to evaluate how durable one wallet is, we don't have to test something 1000 times.
Combined with reports from customers we can have rough estimates about hardware wallets even now, without some big scale tests.
It would be interesting to hear if manufacturers (other than Foundation Passports) are doing any internal testing at all.
I am working on my own rating system right now, that is far from perfect.

First of all, hardware wallet doesn't need to have battery and it doesn't have to be sealed at all, but that is probably better for security and it can protect from tampering.

If you use tough quality laptops (like Thinkpap), tough phones, shoes, jackets, socks ^{(Darn Tough socks for example have lifetime warranty)} etc. than you probably like tough stuff in general, including hardware wallets.
Buying cheap stuff all the time you are probably wasting more money and creating more junk, with false idea that you are saving money.

Makes sense: if you get used to tough laptops, you'll break the weak normal ones because you no longer consider them delicate.

I somewhat agree, however there may be a way to do it. I've got laptops which are waterproof, and have clip in batteries which are hot swapable also. Whether or not that could be achieved on a small device remains to be seen, but there's definitely ways about it. However, for most users they'll probably want longevity via swapping the battery rather than durability, but what's the point of having a device that has a battery that can easily be replaced, when the device doesn't last longer than the initial battery dying. 

Just have them encrypted, and then when you want to zero them the device just assigns a random encryption which you or anyone else won't know or be able to break. Then, you can go the traditional route of smashing it to pieces to be sure. However, I'm not sure how many users would want this sort of feature let alone use it.

Yeah, I've mainly used them for work, but have even incorporated them into my personal life simply because of the things I get up too outside of work. They've never failed me, however I've broken several traditional laptops, even by just picking them, albeit incorrectly. I don't know how many screens I've broken simply by picking them up by the lid .

Although, the water resistance is very much needed for the things I do, and where I take it. I do a lot of my work outside. Which, I think a drop test, and a water resistant test to these devices are probably all that's needed.

That could work as a last recovery option, when you don't have the seed words. The same goes for replacing the screen, connector or keys. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to replace everything except for one chip inside the wallet, unless that chip makes up the majority of the price, but I doubt they'll sell "chipless" devices much cheaper. So there's no business case for it.

If I can choose, I prefer a plastic screen with a glass protector. That makes it scratch resistant but still less likely to scatter. But, unlike my phones, I've never put a screen protector on a hardware wallet. It's not a "travel item" for me.
Another factor in toughness is the weight: phones break when you drop them because they're heavy. USB-sticks usually survive a drop, because the lower weight puts much less strain on the corner that hits the ground. Extreme example: take a TV, if it drops, it's much more likely to break compared to dropping a phone.

Good stuff:

But only if you need it for certain environments. Otherwise, you'll end up with a laptop that's 5 times as expensive, much bulkier, and with lower specs. If I could choose between a hardware wallet that's 5 times more expensive and looks like a brick, or just replace my hardware wallet if I ever break it, I choose the latter.

I'd love to see that, but I don't expect it any time soon. You'd need very large production numbers to be able to sell them at a very low price.

Actually, I think that hardware wallets should be made disposable. With some sort of kill-switch which zaps all the data, like a locked phone would. But possibly with a second switch that physically zeroes out the integrated storage and bricks the device, to prevent anyone from ever extracting information out of it.

It's kinda ridiculous that we have people talking about how hardware wallets are expensive relative to their budget... they should be as cheap as regular wallets IMO.

What's the point of having a super-durable and sealed wallet that won't have the ability to change the battery?
In my opinion, a wallet should be treated as an interface for accessing one's assets, which, if handled carelessly, can be easily replaced with a new one.
Of course, the wallet should not have a "Chinese" quality, but it does not need extra strength either.

We'll probably see certifications being put on the packaging for hardware wallets soon, and hopefully the companies release videos of their tests that they put their hardware through. Some of the phones, and laptops I've had in the past (toughbooks etc) release videos of their products being put through the tests, i.e drop test, water test, and heat test. I'd like to see this being tested, and some recognized certifications being handed out, rather than just stating their product is durable.

At the moment, hardware wallets aren't being developed with this in mind, but I do expect durable will be a selling point in the near future.

Drop test should be a standard in hardware wallets, since that's probably one of the biggest risks that comes with a hardware wallet. Also, if they include any buttons, they should probably be tested, and given some sort of life span, similar to what mice, and keyboards are given.

I haven't put my hardware wallets through any tests, I do technically have a spare Trezor T model lying around, which I could test if anyone would be interested in it. However, I think we as a community should come up with a certain standard to test too, so that our results are somewhat cohesive. While, also bearing in mind these aren't currently built to last the various tests that are used for other hardware like military standard laptops.

The thing is; these tests would ideally be tested at least 1000 times in each catagory to get any sort of reliable idea how which are the best, but even then you're relying on the fairness of all tests.

Like I said before, this is not completely true and I will update topic and add more information in future to prove it.
If my watch can survive natural disaster and swimming or diving than this should be possible for hardware wallets, maybe not for all of them, but some for sure.

Such as metal body, strength, moisture and water resistance, etc. It should be a completely different direction, like the existing lines of phones designed for extreme conditions.

We should expect more from hardware wallet manufacturers, they are increasing prices of their devices all the time and they should improve their products.
I don't want to spend money buying cheap chinese made device that after few years I can throw in garbage because it stopped working for some reason, plastic broke or screen stopped working.

It's not beyond, it can be sold as accessories how hardware wallet, in same way like you can purchase case for smartphones.

Thanks for nice find, I will add them later.

Obviously, you can test this with regular cup or glass.
Gorilla glass and other type of glasses protections are making it better than regular glass.

SeedSigner uses raspberry pi zero, and I saw some people making DIY metallic case, that is very hard to destroy, but most of them are made from cheap plastic cases.

Sorry but S is cheap chinese junk, and it's not manufactured anymore, so I guess that is a good thing

Yeah I agree with you, and I agree that credit card style hardware wallets could be most durable hardware wallet devices...they are so thin and small that you can easily make them fireproof and waterpoof.

Since you are here, is Satochip and other cards you sell waterproof by design?