Motherboard designed for mining, and better riser cables in this thread. - page 5.

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: llamabucket on January 24, 2014, 09:38:21 AM

I also have an order coming in with a bunch of these ASRock H81 Pro BTC boards, and am slightly electrically dumb Wink

I've been scouring the forums looking for reasons why some people advise NOT to use powered risers and some people say to use them at all times.

I personally run regular motherboards and *always* power my risers. But there seems to be a lot of confusion with these boards and the two on board molex connectors.
Can someone please explain why it's impossible for a card to burn out if use both the on board and the risers molex connectors?

I keep seeing things like this on the web, and this guy seems to have a farm: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4560094

EDIT: just found another thread with problems (same dude chimes in here from the link above, but the OP is the one with issues): http://www.overclock.net/t/1456912/2x-asrock-h81-pro-btc-fried-cant-be-swapped-mobo-wont-boot-help-mining-rig

And people like this guy: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4672808

How about JUST powering the risers and not using the motherboard molex connectors? Would that be okay too? Or would powering both be the safer bet.

Thank you

llama

I think you should listen to that guy(s) because they clearly know what they are doing. I mean these guys can't even get 6 gpus on that board made specially for mining Roll Eyes

They also seems to think you must not let your motherboard/gpu's run on two power supplies at once, also a fallacy. Regulated 12v is 12v, and I can't make that any easier for you. Would you like more pictures of my setups as proof?

Use powered risers, and preferably the USB version which have to be powered by design. A riser cable is a straight through device, there is nothing to short. If you can't use common sense to tell why, then I can't help you.

PCI-e x16 spec is allowed to pull no more than 75W from the pci-e slot.

bathrobehero

legendary

Activity: 2002

Merit: 1051

ICO? Not even once.

Quote from: llamabucket on January 24, 2014, 09:38:21 AM

+1

Also, nobody mentioned anything about the total power consumption the cards in these scenarios. I mean surely there must be a difference between using let's say 5 x 75w cards or using 5 x 250w cards.

llamabucket

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

I also have an order coming in with a bunch of these ASRock H81 Pro BTC boards, and am slightly electrically dumb Wink

I've been scouring the forums looking for reasons why some people advise NOT to use powered risers and some people say to use them at all times.

I personally run regular motherboards and *always* power my risers. But there seems to be a lot of confusion with these boards and the two on board molex connectors.
Can someone please explain why it's impossible for a card to burn out if use both the on board and the risers molex connectors?

I keep seeing things like this on the web, and this guy seems to have a farm: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4560094

EDIT: just found another thread with problems (same dude chimes in here from the link above, but the OP is the one with issues): http://www.overclock.net/t/1456912/2x-asrock-h81-pro-btc-fried-cant-be-swapped-mobo-wont-boot-help-mining-rig

And people like this guy: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4672808

How about JUST powering the risers and not using the motherboard molex connectors? Would that be okay too? Or would powering both be the safer bet.

Thank you

llama

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: pilotchup on January 20, 2014, 05:43:24 PM

Pontiacg5, could you please check your messages?

There are so many, asking so much...

I believe I found yours and replied.

pilotchup

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Pontiacg5, could you please check your messages?

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: jackkiej on January 20, 2014, 05:13:03 PM

Does it matter how long the usb cable is for the usb risers?

Yes, there is a theoretical limitation. I believe USB spec used to be 10 meters, but USB 3.0 is likely different. I have used plenty that are 1M long and they work just fine. The extra shielding and twisted pairs are what lets a USB riser work while being so long though.

Quote from: radi324 on January 20, 2014, 05:24:07 PM

Thanks for the help, found it very valuable. So if I get these, do I need anything else with them? They're powered via SATA right?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCI-E-PCI-E-Express-1x-to-1X-4x-8x-16x-Riser-Extender-Adapter-Card-with/944387438.html

Yes, that is a good one. They are around for cheaper than that though. I've seen them down to $18 or so recently, check the forums, ebay, and litecointalk.org marketplace. You should not need to do anything to make these work like a champ. They even have built in 1x presence detect jumpers so you don't even need to do that!

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 20, 2014, 05:26:35 PM

Thanks for your reply!

It gets difficult to educate the "Plug And Play" crowd!

My $.02.

Wink

Not a problem!

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: pontiacg5 on January 20, 2014, 02:41:45 PM

Quote from: notaek on January 20, 2014, 02:17:03 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 19, 2014, 02:13:16 AM

Quote from: bathrobehero on January 19, 2014, 02:10:38 AM

I read about fried Asrock Pro BTC boards when people used them with powered risers but also heard claims that without powered risers only 2-3 cards would work.

I'm planning on building a rig with an Asrock Pro BTC mobo in mind with 5 cards, but with 2-3 types of video cards, with different power consumptions. So what would be the safest route to take?

Always use powered risers and if you don't understand what I just wrote, let me put it a different way..............................

ALWAYS FREAKING USE POWERED RISERS!

There!

Get it?

Got it?

Good!

My $.02.

Wink

Not for the asrock H81 Pro BTC motherboard. It provides supplemental molex power to the PCIe ports already, so powered risers would be redundant and likely to cause a short circuit as described in threads in the past.

What?

No, just no. Powered risers will never cause a short with the pci-e lane, no mater if the bus has supplemental power or not. 12V is 12V.

I'd go a step further and say never use ribbon riser cables, but if I were to use those pieces they would certainly be powered. LostDuchman knows what he is talking about, use the powered ones no matter what mobo you use.

Thanks for your reply!

It gets difficult to educate the "Plug And Play" crowd!

My $.02.

Wink

radi324

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Muniti creator

Quote from: pontiacg5 on January 20, 2014, 05:02:45 PM

I would get USB riser cables myself because they use individually shielded twisted pairs for data, but if you are dead set on cheap ribbon cables then I would get the x1-x16 powered version. Keep them short though, 7" or 19cm is standard IIRC. Longer ones may work, but like I said pci-e communication is a balanced pair of data lines. The longer (or wider, as in more pci-e lanes) they get, the higher the chance the noise can't be "comp'ed" out. If you get to that point, you'll have erratic mining behavior, or no mining at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair

Thanks for the help, found it very valuable. So if I get these, do I need anything else with them? They're powered via SATA right?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCI-E-PCI-E-Express-1x-to-1X-4x-8x-16x-Riser-Extender-Adapter-Card-with/944387438.html

jackkiej

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: pontiacg5 on January 20, 2014, 05:02:45 PM

I would get USB riser cables myself because they use individually shielded twisted pairs for data, but if you are dead set on cheap ribbon cables then I would get the x1-x16 powered version. Keep them short though, 7" or 19cm is standard IIRC. Longer ones may work, but like I said pci-e communication is a balanced pair of data lines. The longer (or wider, as in more pci-e lanes) they get, the higher the chance the noise can't be "comp'ed" out. If you get to that point, you'll have erratic mining behavior, or no mining at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair

Does it matter how long the usb cable is for the usb risers?

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

I would get USB riser cables myself because they use individually shielded twisted pairs for data, but if you are dead set on cheap ribbon cables then I would get the x1-x16 powered version. Keep them short though, 7" or 19cm is standard IIRC. Longer ones may work, but like I said pci-e communication is a balanced pair of data lines. The longer (or wider, as in more pci-e lanes) they get, the higher the chance the noise can't be "comp'ed" out. If you get to that point, you'll have erratic mining behavior, or no mining at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair

radi324

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Muniti creator

Well, shows how much I don't know I guess... so should I just get powered x1-x16 risers instead? In that case I'll order some straight away

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Why did you buy x16-x16 risers? You should have got x1-x16.

There is no added benefit to mining using x16-x16 riser cards, only negatives.

First, the risers add latency. So, if you were planning on gaming on x16 risers you may need to rethink that plan.

Second, those risers are huge! You are blocking a lot of airflow for absolutely no reason. They are a pain to maneuver and route. They are also more expensive, because they are wider.

Lastly, you've got an extra 17 lanes of connections for no reason. If any one of those hundreds of solder points fails, it's likely the whole thing goes belly up and quits working for absolutely no reason. I also strongly believe the extra noise from all those extra lanes causes problems for people as well. PCI-e was not meant to travel along an unshielded parallel cable. Don't know how many of you have tried, but go untwist your cat5 network cable and see how well it works...

I see people adding 1x presence detect pin jumpers to x16-x16 risers all the time and I just have to chuckle a little...

radi324

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Muniti creator

I bought myself 3 of these powered risers, hopefully they'll work fine:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191019533579?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

PSU: Corsair AX1200
Cards: 3x R9 280x (VTX3D)
MB: ASRock 970 Extreme 4

Got non-powered risers but returned them on arrival after I read some more info

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: bathrobehero on January 20, 2014, 04:01:54 PM

Well, that was not really helpful.

I mean I don't want any fried parts or burnt cables or anything, but google gives a worrying amount of results about fried mobo's which had supplementary power connectors and was used with powered risers.

Really? Find me one.

Or better yet, explain your theory as to why it would cause a motherboard to burn up. You know that the supplemental power is in fact supplemental, and the pci-e bus likely still gets 12V power from the 24pin ATX connector, right?

I myself have run powered risers on supplemental powered motherboards just fine. I also know that paralleling 12V connections simply doubles the current carrying capacity and not much else, but whatever...

bathrobehero

legendary

Activity: 2002

Merit: 1051

ICO? Not even once.

Well, that was not really helpful.

I mean I don't want any fried parts or burnt cables or anything, but google gives a worrying amount of results about fried mobo's which had supplementary power connectors and was used with powered risers.

pontiacg5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: notaek on January 20, 2014, 02:17:03 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 19, 2014, 02:13:16 AM

Quote from: bathrobehero on January 19, 2014, 02:10:38 AM

I read about fried Asrock Pro BTC boards when people used them with powered risers but also heard claims that without powered risers only 2-3 cards would work.

I'm planning on building a rig with an Asrock Pro BTC mobo in mind with 5 cards, but with 2-3 types of video cards, with different power consumptions. So what would be the safest route to take?

Always use powered risers and if you don't understand what I just wrote, let me put it a different way..............................

ALWAYS FREAKING USE POWERED RISERS!

There!

Get it?

Got it?

Good!

My $.02.

Wink

Not for the asrock H81 Pro BTC motherboard. It provides supplemental molex power to the PCIe ports already, so powered risers would be redundant and likely to cause a short circuit as described in threads in the past.

What?

No, just no. Powered risers will never cause a short with the pci-e lane, no mater if the bus has supplemental power or not. 12V is 12V.

I'd go a step further and say never use ribbon riser cables, but if I were to use those pieces they would certainly be powered. LostDuchman knows what he is talking about, use the powered ones no matter what mobo you use.

notaek

legendary

Activity: 1268

Merit: 1009

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 19, 2014, 02:13:16 AM

Quote from: bathrobehero on January 19, 2014, 02:10:38 AM

I read about fried Asrock Pro BTC boards when people used them with powered risers but also heard claims that without powered risers only 2-3 cards would work.

I'm planning on building a rig with an Asrock Pro BTC mobo in mind with 5 cards, but with 2-3 types of video cards, with different power consumptions. So what would be the safest route to take?

Always use powered risers and if you don't understand what I just wrote, let me put it a different way..............................

ALWAYS FREAKING USE POWERED RISERS!

There!

Get it?

Got it?

Good!

My $.02.

Wink

Not for the asrock H81 Pro BTC motherboard. It provides supplemental molex power to the PCIe ports already, so powered risers would be redundant and likely to cause a short circuit as described in threads in the past.

DontMineMe

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

Those raisers are so over priced ! It's almost cheaper just to buy used motherboard with 2 PCI e x16 slots,cpu,and ram off ebay! Or maybe not?

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: bathrobehero on January 19, 2014, 02:10:38 AM

I read about fried Asrock Pro BTC boards when people used them with powered risers but also heard claims that without powered risers only 2-3 cards would work.

I'm planning on building a rig with an Asrock Pro BTC mobo in mind with 5 cards, but with 2-3 types of video cards, with different power consumptions. So what would be the safest route to take?

Always use powered risers and if you don't understand what I just wrote, let me put it a different way..............................

ALWAYS FREAKING USE POWERED RISERS!

There!

Get it?

Got it?

Good!

My $.02.

Wink

bathrobehero

legendary

Activity: 2002

Merit: 1051

ICO? Not even once.

I read about fried Asrock Pro BTC boards when people used them with powered risers but also heard claims that without powered risers only 2-3 cards would work.

I'm planning on building a rig with an Asrock Pro BTC mobo in mind with 5 cards, but with 2-3 types of video cards, with different power consumptions. So what would be the safest route to take?

Topic: Motherboard designed for mining, and better riser cables in this thread. - page 5. (Read 63275 times)