Topic: MPEx securities discussion thread - page 6. (Read 12059 times)

Those charts are listed in btc -which has obviously endured a meteoric rise over the last few years..so ANY btc priced asset will display downward trend as its valuation adjusts to fiat market prices...unless the security were to have some impossible trajectory exceeding bitcoin's surge in value..which is quite unlikely.

If you wish to understand actual valuations  for stocks listed in btc, you need to do a bit of calculus.

It doesn't seem worth debating further as your argument is clearly emotional, irrational heresay.  

I asked if you could demonstrate a shred of evidence to support your claims of mpex impropriety.

AM has been failing spectacularly since its listing on Havelock.  Like so:



If something was awesome before coming to Havelock and turned into a bag of dicks right after being listed, well...  Not sure just how well that speaks of Havelock.

BDD is not a security but a game, as the issuer will gladly and honestly tell you.  If you chose to see it as a security, disregarding the issuer's claim, it becomes a failure due to it being a ((zero-sum) - (fees)) game.  twentyseventy charges a fee for running the game, a perfectly justified one.

if only

thats why mpex isnt that bad, with the fee, you dont get noobs exchanging couple shares and drop the price like mad because they cant handle couple months without news/divs.

100% shitty stocks is not true because AM and BDD have been successful.

Yes, AM shares were listed on havelock immediately following the peak of the bubble but just about all of the shares were transferred from direct shares and as you know AM has already paid its investors $300 for every share which cost $1 during IPO.

Would you care so much about havelock if they charged a huge registration fee with some sort of recruitment scheme and market manipulation?

According to mircea, the biggest mistake AM made was not listing on his exchange and I think he might be right.

Could you imagine how much AM stock would be worth if it was listed on mpex? Would it be worth 10 times the value of s.mpoe because it has yielded 10 times the amount of dividends? That would mean AM would be worth 8,000,000 btc.

If by "works well" you mean impoverishing its "investors" [that would be u], while providing Teh Community with free lel, then i'd say it works exceptionally well.
Re. "99% shitty stocks":  Currently it consists of 100% shitty stocks, as explained here.[/quote]

  ~Happy investing!

Is that what mircea tells you?

That's is like saying nobody joins scientology because people are "too lazy to learn". It's simply bullshit and sounds exactly like an excuse mircea would make up.

The reason nobody uses mpex is because it is a joke plain and simple. If it was useful and not a scam, they wouldn't need to use a referral scheme with massive rewards to perpetuate it.

Look at havelock for example, sure it may consist of 99% shitty stocks, but people use it because it is useful and works well. Not because they are paid X amount of money from recruiting Y amount of idiots.


Can I see the block records? I've never seen publicly verifiable records regarding mpex. Especially nothing to suggest that the ~20K btc traded per month does not only consist of mircea trading with himself.


You seem to think having an exchange run by an egomaniac is required. Fun fact: It's not.

Outside of mirceas cult of financiology his behavior would be completely unacceptable for a CEO of a company "worth" ~$500m.


Again, neither. Why is stock manipulation acceptable to you?


No it's not. NYSE and other legitimate exchanges earn money from the services they provide.

Mpex earns money via a referral scheme (and a tiny bit from their service). Referral schemes have been used for decades to advertise scams because they simply work.


Nope. Asicminer has given out more in dividends than satoshidice was sold for. And the revenue from satoshidice was weak at best.

But even asicminer is not valued anywhere near s.mpoe. Even though AM has given out more than 10 times as much btc from dividends, it is still valued 1/10th that of s.mpoe.


Can you show me the publicly verifiable info? Can you prove that the trading does not consist almost entirely of mirceas stock manipulation?

Do you honestly believe the values of mpex stocks are at all representative of their worth?

Please explain:

MPOE: 1.7% annual yield
BBET: 1.7%
NSA: 0%
MG: 0%

I know that you will probably just say that mpex consists of only the most bullish "investors" who don't care the slightest about the companies Mirceas ability to bring in revenue/profit and you could be right.

I just want to know why stocks on mpex are traded at less than 2% yearly return. There is no reasonable explanation other than stock manipulation.

Investing 101 says that a stock should be valued relative to the amount of profit it can possibly generate. Is there any way possible that mpoe generates 1 million btc? What about half that amount? Can they even earn 1/10th of that in their lifetime?

Re, OP - word is mpex engine's undergoing the first major overhaul since ever.  the site is down while changing, so here is the FAQ for anyone unfamiliar, also answers your question about why so few use or discuss it: affordability and most blokes are too chickenshit or just plain lazy to learn how to register and trade on it.


not sure exactly what you consider value; according to blockrecords, there are many thousands of bitcoin worth of value contained in the exchange

1.  so you would rather trade on a service run by an egomaniac from serbia or hungary who is trying to reduce the # of btc he holds.  I don't think you want to deal with the hungarians, those people are fuking savages.

2. and you would rather trade on exchange thats anonymously manipulated.  it shouldn't make any difference i rekon.

3. don't all stock exchanges charge their users all kinds of service and usage fees...  I mean how else would anysuch services continue to exist?  

4. Of course I reject your premises, but there are all kinds of synthetic markets&securities available to traders.   I can confirm the companies and associated services or products listed on the emporium do exist and work as described.  i can do more cursory auditing of all the figures and transactions reported than I can with any other exchange in the world.

5. SDice seems to have sufficient value to gain attention from an agency lady. I believe it was at some point the highest valued publicly held btc company (other than mpex itself).

what evidence can you demonstrate showing mp securities represent anything but the exact value reported down to a satoshi? Its all quite open and auditable with blockexploration and such.

At the very least, mpoe is the only company touting sufficient and reliable methods for not completely blowing security to the extent all other cryptocoin businesss currently do and will continue into foreseeable future.

i dunno, i feel MP & co are quite upstream with that decentralized platform & using WOT. not considering the value of stocks et al., just this manner of implementing such exchange, by contrast with havelocks. and i kinda like the attitude too, + he's been right about errthing so far: TBF, Gox, fools..

I think that's because they take all your money up front, and then use it to manipulate the prices to make you think there is actually some value or demand there.  There are so many fees involved in every action, trading on mpex is like voluntarily walking into quicksand and trying to grow taller to stay alive.

Actually, TAT is not involved in MPIF. Originally he was invited, but he declined. That position was given instead to Jurov.

The funds are just as much if not more of a joke. MPIF is less of an investment fund and more like mirceas gambling fund.

The only real benefit of the fund is that they will be betting on bitbet.us which, as a result of owning the site, they determine the outcome to their stacked bets (find some house created bets if you don't believe they are unfairly worded or stacked.)

It's also strange that TAT is involved considering he was partially responsible for one of the biggest bitcoin scams yet (neobee)


Havelock and mpex are both only ~2 years old which is not nearly long enough to establish trust/competence for either. Neither have been independently audited and neither are properly registered with a securities agency.

However I would have to disagree with the idea that mircea is earning his btc in an honest way. The biggest source of revenue for mpex was the option trading bot which was very efficient at ripping off noobs who are bad at gambling and the second biggest source (now the biggest) is the referral scheme. You pay 30BTC and get back 10 btc per refferal (5btc to referrer and 5btc to referred). Just like your affiliate link this gives people the motivation to perpetuate the scam.


Well there's this "S.MPIF liquidity. Obviously as a freely traded asset, S.MPIF may trade for values other than its calculated NAV. ThickAsThievesiii has a 50 BTC piggy bank on MPEx which he can’t withdraw, but will use to try and extract a profit out of providing liquidity" and "IV. As far as equity is concerned, I intend to slowly sell the remainder 40% of non-controlling S.MPOE interest that I currently own"

If you watch the order book for a while you will notice that it looks like very few people if any are trading and it mostly consists of a moving wall (most likely a bot) of ~10 bids/asks. It looks so unnatural is is a joke. I can't prove that all of the trading on mpex is fake but I'm pretty sure the majority of it is. Look at the volume of every other stock and compare it to s.mpoe. How do you explain the fact that s.mpoe ALWAYS has ~20,000 btc trading volume each month and every other stock/fund/future combined has ~10btc/month?

How can you explain the fact that s.mpoe share price never falls despite the lack of revenue? My theory is that mircea is trading with himself to keep the volume and share price high. He would have an incentive to do so because he owns 75% of the shares and 80% of mpex revenue is from recruiting new people to pay the 30btc fee. (last 3 months mpoe had 460btc profit total, 360 btc from new account fees alone)


I agree. They do have some value but not much.

S.nsa is an incompetent hardware manufacturer (Not even a prototype after a year?) and s.mg looks like a joke. You would think that with ~$5,000,000 in funding the game would look better than runescape classic.

Bitbet.us is somehow valued at 5000 btc even though they earned a staggering 200btc in the past 1.5 years, 75btc of which came from stealing late bets which were not confirmed before the bet was closed (which is illegal however you look at it). If bitbet was listed on any other exchange I'd guess it would be valued at ~500-1000btc.

S.mpoe is the worst of them all. Nearly no sources of revenue other than new accounts and the fees that mircea generates when he trades with himself (doesn't matter to him because he gets back 75% anyways)

Lol, don't worry, bro!  Judging by your ace "investment" choices, you can not now, nor will you ever, afford the 30 BTC entry fee.
It will never be a burden *to you* so go back to pimping the MARVELOUS SCHLICHTER BROTHERS

MPEX has no value and has been/continues to burden the community.

Nah, I am here to have a friendly conversation about a topic that interests me: bitcoin investments.

You are focusing on the stocks, but there are also funds and futures available.

Mircea Popescu seems very intent on increasing his bitcoin stash, but at least to me he seems to be doing so in an honest way. MPEx has history, they have been around longer than any other bitcoin stock market. While this does not ensure they will not run away with the money tomorrow, it at least shows they are thinking in the long term. If you believe that the future of global finance is going to work through bitcoins, then in the long run it is better to run a working exchange than to scam a few bitcoins now.

Do you have any proof that the exchange is manipulated?

I won't go into my analysis of each stock right now, but I think there is value in each stock listed; perhaps not what they are currently trading at, but still non-zero.

WRT point 4, synthetic stocks, are you referring to the D series of stocks? I wouldn't call them ponzi schemes, but they appear to be naked shorts. Personally, I would not buy them, for the twofold reason that it is risky to get into buying naked shorts (and I am not that risk tolerant), and more importantly, I do not think any of those companies will return invested capital (So in that respect I view these companies from the same side as Mircea, who is shorting them).

So you're really only here to make money by advertising your affiliate links correct?

You can also use a broker (that's what I do, see link in my sig )

Serious questions for the OP

1. Why would anyone want to trade on a sketchy website run by a romanian egomaniac who only cares about increasing his own massive stash of btc?

2. Why would anyone want to trade on an exchange which is openly manipulated by the exchange owner?

3. Why would anyone want to use an exchange which makes most of its money from recruiting new members? (see referral scheme)

4. Why would anyone want to trade "synthetic stocks" which are essentially open ponzi schemes?

5. Why would anyone want to trade any of the stocks gambling instruments on mpex? I'd honestly like to know which one you (or anyone who uses mpex) think has value.

There is a reason you don't see mpex mentioned here. For one it is an extremely complicated and well designed scam. The other reason is that there is literally zero value on any stock/instrument offered on the site.

There is no value created on mpex, only gambling and stealing money from noobs. (could be wrong if s.nsa finally made those useless hardware gpg things by now)

The only reason anyone might want to use mpex is because you know that the stocks will never go down in value as long as mircea is manipulating them how he wants.

They got banned ages ago.

Whats it cost to trade on mpex these days ? Still 30BTC or what ever the initial retarded price was ?