Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - page 2.

galambo

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Quote from: cypherdoc on June 09, 2012, 09:33:05 PM

Quote from: galambo on June 09, 2012, 09:25:15 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 09, 2012, 07:41:07 PM

actually this is a great suggestion.

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

not at all. educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

my own local bank has helped me in this matter.

quoting this

cypherdoc

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Activity: 1764

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Quote from: galambo on June 09, 2012, 09:25:15 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 09, 2012, 07:41:07 PM

actually this is a great suggestion.

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

not at all. educate customers so they can structure their own tx's so as not to attract attention.

my own local bank has helped me in this matter.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: galambo on June 09, 2012, 09:25:15 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 09, 2012, 07:41:07 PM

actually this is a great suggestion.

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

I think its already happening.You can easily avoid mt gox altogether because other market participants are stepping up and offering what mt gox cant. For instance Tangible Cryptography has a new service of buying your coins for paypal,dwolla and other methods.

galambo

sr. member

Activity: 966

Merit: 311

Quote from: cypherdoc on June 09, 2012, 07:41:07 PM

actually this is a great suggestion.

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

Your idea is for Mt.Gox to structure customer's payments so that it does not attract the attention of the authorities. Great idea. I see why you do not run Mt.Gox.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Ente on June 08, 2012, 07:58:20 AM

Ok, so far the not-so-much news about what you state why and what for you need all that info on users.

Now I am much more interested what flags the KYC on users, which freezes their account and funds until they comply? I refuse to comply to your KYC policy. What is the max amount of combined funds I may have? What kind of "suspicious transfers" (?!?) will flag me?

Being able to calculate the risk on MtGox would be a plus, and may keep me from going to another exchange like Intersango.

Ente

actually this is a great suggestion.

mtgox could make up for the increased scrutiny by educating us customers about all the subtle monetary transactions or moves that might trigger an audit by the authorities.

this could go a long way to proving that gox is really on our side, not the gubmints.

nandika

full member

Activity: 134

Merit: 100

a bit off topic but regarding mtgox & it's support

I had a withdrawal to okpay, which is not processed. status shows error:
2012/06/04 21:36:42 Withdraw Status: error $262.35000 $0.00239
Withdraw to account okpay

Money not refunded to my mtgox account, neither sent to okpay.

Before and even AFTER this withdrawal I have successfully completed withdrawals to okpay.

I'm unable to contact mtgox, tried to send a support ticket, but browser shown a red frame without an error message.

Please let me know who can help.

login: nandika

hazek

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Quote from: terrytibbs on June 09, 2012, 09:26:15 AM

Quote from: hazek on June 09, 2012, 09:01:21 AM

If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

It already is. Why did you think they were so aggressively launching new features, issuing press releases, and posting about transparency on the forums?

Bingo. Don't you just love a market regulated strictly by market consumers i.e. the free market? Cheesy

terrytibbs

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Activity: 560

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Quote from: hazek on June 09, 2012, 09:01:21 AM

If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

It already is. Why did you think they were so aggressively launching new features, issuing press releases, and posting about transparency on the forums?

^{Source: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/growing-decentralization-in-the-bitcoin-economy/}

hazek

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If that's the case I have no doubt in my mind that their clientele will shrink accordingly.

Inaba

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: hazek on June 09, 2012, 05:38:55 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 03:34:51 AM

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

MtGox doesn't need to do anything because it's regulated by it's customers (i.e. the free market). Just watch how fast they'll fall if they are stupid enough to start operating in bad faith.

They already are operating in bad faith. They are not informing their customers that they do not have the fiat funds to cover withdrawals over a few thousand dollars. There are a number of us at the moment with $10,000+ withdrawals being held indefinitely without any explanation, but if we make smaller withdrawals those go through. In my case, I've had zero problems with withdrawals in the past and I have been a verified member for quite some time. Haven't changed any account information, etc...

jgarzik

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Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Agreed -- thanks for being open, and explaining these rules in a public forum.

Just imagine HSBC or Bank of America being willing to do the same, and you'll see how different the bitcoin community really is.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: kokjo on June 09, 2012, 04:29:16 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 04:04:40 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 03:34:51 AM

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

From my personal experience with them, I think they send the funds to a "court". They do not get to keep the funds (assuming you file counter charges against Mt. Gox).

Im more worried about my personal ID being on a site thats a honeypot for hackers....considering mt gox has been hacked in the past its not a risk I want to take. Did someone mention identity theft ?

im my opinion, because they have been hacked, you have a reason to trust them: they have failed and learned, and they are therefor more secure now then before.

just like bitcoinica

exactly

hazek

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 03:34:51 AM

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

MtGox doesn't need to do anything because it's regulated by it's customers (i.e. the free market). Just watch how fast they'll fall if they are stupid enough to start operating in bad faith.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 04:04:40 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 03:34:51 AM

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

From my personal experience with them, I think they send the funds to a "court". They do not get to keep the funds (assuming you file counter charges against Mt. Gox).

Im more worried about my personal ID being on a site thats a honeypot for hackers....considering mt gox has been hacked in the past its not a risk I want to take. Did someone mention identity theft ?

im my opinion, because they have been hacked, you have a reason to trust them: they have failed and learned, and they are therefor more secure now then before.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on June 09, 2012, 03:34:51 AM

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

From my personal experience with them, I think they send the funds to a "court". They do not get to keep the funds (assuming you file counter charges against Mt. Gox).

Im more worried about my personal ID being on a site thats a honeypot for hackers....considering mt gox has been hacked in the past its not a risk I want to take. Did someone mention identity theft ?

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Mt Gox needs to use a third party for AML/KYC rather than do it themselves. There is too much incentive for them to simply claim documents are fake and block account holders because there is no transparency at all .

Its like putting the banks in charge of their own regulations through the SEC which caused the GFC !

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Thanks for being open, Gox. Those who feel uncomfortable with the rules, regulations, and taxation of fiat currency are welcome to stop bitching and start living without fiat. Hey, Bitcoin is here. Use it. Nobody is forcing you to go to Mt.Gox and surrender your government-issued ID back into the hands of... government. Or something like that.

galambo

sr. member

Activity: 966

Merit: 311

Quote from: dancupid on June 08, 2012, 10:41:27 AM

Is there a difference betwen AML/KYC policy and 'suspicious' activity policy with mtgox?

No, all of these refer to laws passed at different times modifying similar sections of the United States Code. They all refer to the same laws, or to activities the laws require.

Quote from: dancupid on June 08, 2012, 10:41:27 AM

The level of trade I have on mt.gox means that I haven't entered into the the level of AML - would proof of id related to suspicious activity be kept for AML purposes, or would it just be for your own security concerns?

All levels of trade are subject to AML/KYC/BSA/Patriot Act.

Quote from: dancupid on June 08, 2012, 10:41:27 AM

Ideally if I accidentally logged on with a VPN I would be happy to provide proof of my id for your eyes only, but I would be less happy for you to keep it permanantly.
I'm happy to comply with AML/KYC should it become necessary if my trading level increases, but the level of my trading should allow me to be free from that even if I accidentally create a suspicious activity alert.

Enhanced Due Diligence (KYC - know your customer) provisions require that they obtain valid ID for everyone.

Dalkore

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Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: Mushoz on June 08, 2012, 07:18:11 AM

Quote from: kokjo on June 08, 2012, 07:08:38 AM

Quote from: hazek on June 08, 2012, 06:55:50 AM

Quote from: MtGox_Dylan on June 08, 2012, 01:28:33 AM

Why do AML/KYC?

Mt.Gox handles both Bitcoin and fiat currency (Dollars, Euros, etc.) As a result, we are bound by the laws of Japan and America, along with various international regulations which cover the fiat side of our business. Very similar to how a bank in most countries must be regulated to ensure they are not facilitating money laundering, terrorist financing or the like, we are obliged to follow the same rules.

Oh please enough with the state propaganda bullshit.

Why don't you tell it like it really is. You are not obliged, you are forced under threat of violence to gather information about your customers so that governments around the world can control what your customer's money is being used for. "Money laundering, terrorist financing or the like" are victimless crimes the state invented as a way to gain even more control over the people they assert their rule over.

You can't imagine the angry thoughts that go through my mind when I read bs propaganda like this, I'm pretty sure if they already tried to attack people for thought crime I'd get the capital punishment. Angry

You can't imagine the angry thoughts that go through my mind when I read this bullshit libertarian and anarchistic off-topic propaganda.
just because you a little afraid kid, paranoid about the big bad government, that is actually trying to make you safe and comfortable, you don't have to spray your fuck system shit around this forum at all time.

+1

Some people on this forum are truly paranoid about anything government related...

People are in fantasy-land thinking that "this" was not the eventual outcome. People need to be realistic and think about the risk 3rd parties take, when they convert you cash in a credit so you can use there service. If you think you can do better, design a system and operate it and see what happens. I would be concerned more if a service like Dwolla or Mt. Gox didn't ask for this.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Quote from: hazek on June 08, 2012, 06:55:50 AM

You are not obliged, you are forced under threat of violence to gather information about your customers so that governments around the world can control what your customer's money is being used for.

Being obliged == being forced to, AFAICT.

Quote from: hazek on June 08, 2012, 06:55:50 AM

You can't imagine the angry thoughts that go through my mind when I read bs propaganda like this, I'm pretty sure if they already tried to attack people for thought crime I'd get the capital punishment. Angry

Chill down man, you'll only get an ulcer for nothing.
I usually get angry with authoritarianisms I see happening day by day, but you're letting yourself go too easily if just this OP was enough to get you angry. It won't do you any good.

Plus, the correct wording may make a lot of difference in the results, even if in the end it's the same thing you're saying. It's probably wiser for OP to use the words he used instead the words you'd used. That will probably make his job and the business of his employer last longer. Plus, he didn't need to lie.
Btw, remember they are using their own identity here. When my parents were teenagers, publicly speaking about the state the way you've just done here would probably get them in jail, or worse, make them "disappear". And even recently, a political blogger in Brazil just got shot 6 times, miraculously survived, and now is facing a lawsuit from a federal representative bitch for "moral damages", while the investigation about his attempt of murder is practically archived already.
TL;DR: Don't look for troubles. Take care.

Topic: Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - page 2. (Read 11170 times)