Topic: Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - page 3. (Read 11170 times)

Can you please explain what the Japanese rules are, because this is clearly inconsistent with US rules.

The US customer identification requirements are not to acquire copies of specific documents, but rather to verify the information that you're given.

For example, is the address and phone number valid?  Did the customer receive mail that you sent to that address?  Is the information consistent, ie does the telephone area code match the address given?  If the customer claims to have lived at the address for 3 years, can you verify that with a third party (eg a telephone directory)?

Photocopies of ID cards are generally not sufficient or required, because someone could submit a copy of someone else's ID.  If a customer walks into a bank in the US and opens an account, a bank employee will look at the photo ID to make sure the customer is not using someone else's ID, but they don't need to photocopy it.

In the event that you are not able to verify a customer's information, you do have to return their money.  You don't have to do business with someone, but you can't just take their money and keep it.

I believe that you're angry but I'm skeptical that you're actually angry at Mt. Gox.

Is their refusal to antagonize the regulators who barely even need an excuse to shut them down really the most egregious example of not calling a spade a spade that affects you on a daily basis? Could the actual source of your anger someone or something a little closer to home?

Lol

They sure do and did. I'm ready to start the process to show how easy it'll be for a 10 kid to get an approved account at Mt. Gox. Meanwhile, look what I found.


~Bruno~

wtf do they allow 16yr olds to become corporations ??

Is there a difference betwen AML/KYC policy and 'suspicious' activity policy with mtgox?
For instance, I use a VPN much of the time, but I have to remember to disconnect in case I accidentally log onto mtgox and create a 'suspicious activity' alert.
The level of trade I have on mt.gox means that I haven't entered into the the level of AML - would proof of id related to suspicious activity be kept for AML purposes, or would it just be for your own security concerns?
Ideally if I accidentally logged on with a VPN I would be happy to provide proof of my id for your eyes only, but I would be less happy for you to keep it permanantly.
I'm happy to comply with AML/KYC should it become necessary if my trading level increases, but the level of my trading should allow me to be free from that even if I accidentally create a suspicious activity alert.

He was 16 y/o at the time. And if being incorporated excuses the legal age requirement of one using an exchange, then I guess my 10 y/o nephew has something to look forward to. I'll simply make sure he fills out the online application from Delaware correctly.

~Bruno~

So let me get this right. Nothing in either of these two threads is going to be addressed till Monday. Come Monday morning, Dylan is going to go to his desk with his fresh cup and coffee and start addressing each and every question and concern on these two threads. Why? Because it's his job and he said he would. My guess is that he'll still be sitting there come Tuesday and his coffee will be cold unless, of course, Mark is looking over his shoulders and bringing fresh cups of coffee while they ponder how to address the more difficult questions and concerns, ones that can't be easily replied to with, "I'm not at liberty to answer that question." or, "I'm going to have to ask so-and-so."

~Bruno~

ToS didn't exist back then...
And before the ToS was added to the site, his account got moved to a corporation so it wouldn't matter.

I only have one question.

How the fuck can zhou tong use mt gox via bitcoinica when its explicitly stated in your tos that its impossible because he is 17 if Im not mistaken ??

Maybe some people are more equal than others.....

That's why I'm not angry you and mtgox are for the purpose of self preservation giving in to these threats of violence and following the state's rules. What makes me angry is not calling a spade a spade. Don't say you are obliged to comply, say you are forced under threat of violence, don't say money laundering, say state's arbitrary rules about money transactions, don't say terrorists, say organizations the state wants to destroy, ect. just cut out the bullshit state apologist propaganda and tell it like it is.

Personally I'm not against private law, I'm not against private rules, I'm just against rulers. In fact I support some voluntary, private and most of all consistent rules that would be mandatory for everyone wishing to be part of a society(not geographically bound of course) to follow.



The only point of my entire rant was that if you really share my ideals and want to get from under the thumb of state sponsored violence, stop spreading their bullshit PR propaganda. It's as simple as that.

So you need proof of residence because of bank standards but such proof provided by a bank is not accepted. Fuck this shit.

Well shit, so now I have to post this in two places because I don't know which thread is being monitored:

Thanks for the post MTGox_Dylan.  I think most everyone was already aware of these FAQ points, though.  That has never really been the issue, so I'm not sure what is hoped to have been accomplished by making this post, other than as a distracting measure (This would have been perhaps more effective: http://chanarchive.org/content/1_b/378881354/1328366326840.jpg).

The real problem here is, as has already been at least partially mentioned:

1. The lack of transparency in the process.
2. The lack of communication.
3. The lies and false promises made by MTGox Support Staff with regards to AML/KYC.
4. Delay after delay, ostensibly under the guise of AML.
5. The just plain ludicrous decisions (Goat as an example).  Perhaps transparency would clear these up.
6. The fact that most decisions made by MTGox seem completely arbitrary, and nothing... NOTHING pisses off customers more than arbitrary decision making.  When your actions are not predictable in a given situation, you are wrong.  Period.

So while this post is nice and all, I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish other than to distract from the real issues surrounding MTGox.  My situation, that has been on going since April, is still unresolved.  I am not the only one in this situation and there are plenty of others in similar situations. 

Again, this does not seem to be an AML issue, it seems to be an insolvency issue.  MTGox is unable to fund even moderate sized fiat conversions, which leads many of us to believe you guys are basically bankrupt and a disaster waiting to happen.  The fact that no one has publicly denied this (not that we'd believe you at this point anyway, given MTGox track record of lies and falsehoods) certainly does not bolster confidence in MTGox at all.

Maybe this is the wrong thread to bring any of this up, but I don't want people to be distracted by this kind of thread from the real issue of MTGox being unable to meet their obligations to even moderate sized customers, especially when you are trying to gain new customers who will end up completely screwed when the Gox house of cards comes crashing down.

First and foremost, don't let the bullies in this thread silence you (and shame on them).  Your opinion is just as important as mtgox trying to work within the current system.

I think we have to view the situation for what it is…mtgox is trying to operate out in the open and within the confines of the existing law…whether that law is legitimate or not.  At BitPay, we do the same.  Above a certain threshold and we require identifying information before we'll process transactions.  We even turn away many merchants trying to sell things of questionable legality (they really shouldn't even be considering use of a third party processor like us in the first place).  Some of these merchants are already accepting payment from paypal or visa/mc.  As a libertarian, I don't agree with the prohibition and criminalization of drugs, yet we have to turn away those businesses.  As a Bitcoin business, you really have to make a decision, either you operate in the open and comply with the existing laws, or you completely mask yourself (as Silk Road has done).  There's really no middle ground.  Any business trying to operate in a middle ground is going to fail.

The reality is that money is information and, like any other form of information, it can be sent anywhere in the world in the blink of an eye and in complete privacy.  Many of the laws governing money simply ignore this basic reality and that's a dangerous situation that we must work to change.  People have to come to terms with the idea that financial transactions need to be allowed to be private if we value freedom at all.

Law enforcement has become accustomed to using the financial system to catch criminals, but this is only a relatively recent phenomenon.  It wasn't that long ago that the world didn't have computers or the Internet and the world still turned and law enforcement still managed to do their job.  We need to acknowledge that innovations around money are likely to take this tool away (Bitcoin or no Bitcoin) from law enforcement.  While I don't agree with all laws, I do agree with the concept of laws.  While I may not believe we need a government that consumes (and largely wastes) 25% or more of our economy, I do believe that even in a completely anarchistic society, we need a legal structure and we need law enforcement.

So, back to mtgox and Bitcoin businesses operating in the open in general…voices like yours are very important and highly valued.  You express an opinion that even people running businesses that try to remain in compliance with laws largely agree with.  These businesses need your voice and voices like yours in order to have a dialog with regulators that moves things in the right direction.  The thing I fear most is that Bitcoin and software like bitcoin will be banned.  I don't fear the collapse of Bitcoin, Bitcoin was designed to be unstoppable.  I fear it because I fear what such a course of action means for the fabric of society.  I fear what would happen when governments collapse.  I know some people believe that's inevitable and that we simply have to brace ourselves and manage the best we can.  I don't think it necessarily has to go that way, but we do need people that can listen and can understand.  

It's not even so much about ideology as it is about acknowledging reality.  Unfortunately for mtgox, BitPay and others, we may find that the market ultimately just routes around us.  The regulators might like the fact that mtgox is collecting all this information, but that's not going to do regulators any good when their volume is 0.

Thanks, tt. Your post brought to my attention that the OP stemmed from another section, so I went there first. But now I'm in a dilemma--where to post. It seems both have identical OP's, and both are currently getting commented on. The author, Dylan (what the hell did I just find while getting the URL of his user name?), did a fine job penning said post, using American English, but didn't have the foresight to realize that posting in two different sections at the same time, with exact OP, would only cause confusion unless, of course, that's the intent.

I guess I'm capable of only posting on this thread, my questions and concerns, importing quoted posts from the other thread. FUCK ME!!! After typing that, I realized that that may not work either, for it would continue to fork the timeline, creating a bigger mess everyone would have to walk through. Then again, maybe I'm just over thinking this.

That said, my first question, with many more to come. How strict does Mt. Gox abide by the following?


I just realized that when you posted this, it was about 3PM in Japan, with your last log-in at 7PM (Japan time), and now the weekend is coming up. Are you planning on working over the weekend, thus getting paid overtime (not sure how that works over there), addressing questions and concerns (now on two fronts) of which you've stated in the OP(s) that you would do? But that's not why my TFH is on. I simply find it odd that these threads where created immediately after I posted here (see timestamp).

When answering my question, you might as well make your answer as thorough as possible, for any vague answer will surely be followed up with more questions relating to this now very important age issue thingy.

~Bruno~

EDIT: I just realized something else. Dylan started both thread prior to begin addressing any questions or concerns. I believe that this was planned beforehand, knowing that the weekend was coming up, coupled with having these up to possibly take focus away from some other issue(s).

Depositing bitcoins is suspicious 

Ok, so far the not-so-much news about what you state why and what for you need all that info on users.

Now I am much more interested what flags the KYC on users, which freezes their account and funds until they comply? I refuse to comply to your KYC policy. What is the max amount of combined funds I may have? What kind of "suspicious transfers" (?!?) will flag me?

Being able to calculate the risk on MtGox would be a plus, and may keep me from going to another exchange like Intersango.

Ente

+1 for the explaination of your processes.
To bad Bitcoinica can not do the same  

damn, now i have to go dig for an answer in another thread :-/

Yeah, ignorance is bliss.