Mt.Gox and void trades: Force Majeure - page 3.

Tasty Champa

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: stic.man on June 21, 2011, 02:58:20 PM

wouldn't rolling back the trades also roll back the transaction fees or is that a separate process?

I can't verify if it was happening to everyone, but it was certainly happening to me.
my transaction fee was 1.3% over the entire weekend up until they were took down for being greedy.

shamen

newbie

Activity: 52

Merit: 0

+1 to what vlad said

Vladimir

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1001

-

Quote from: jaybny on June 21, 2011, 10:58:53 AM

MtGox.. you really need PR and a spokesman.

Dear Mtgox. please do get some help with PR, legal and security. You can (could) afford it. Do not be so damn greedy and spend some money on this now.

Do not try to do it all yourself. You are obviously not qualified in these 3 fields.

Constant lies and half truth's are very damaging from PR point of view.

Force majeure claim is naive to the extreme, how embarrassing.

The security field shortcomings are obvious. Do you realize that security is not a state, it is a process.

Get help, delegate things to pros, you cannot do it all yourself. It is a difficult step for a small biz operator but it has to be done.

More specifically, consider the following actions for your plunge protection team:

1. Get proper legal advise, get proper terms and conditions which you have user agree to at the sign up stage and than emailed to user as a pdf file. Some t&s on one of billion web sites somewhere on the net is not applicable and pretending that it is binding in any way is laughable.

2. Get yourself ISO 27001 certified. It will cost you but it is a great step from both PR and security point of view.

stic.man

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

wouldn't rolling back the trades also roll back the transaction fees or is that a separate process?

Tasty Champa

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: NO_SLAVE on June 21, 2011, 02:42:38 PM

Quote from: Tasty Champa on June 21, 2011, 02:39:57 PM

1 month from today,
if I still have not received an answer,
I'm going to answer each of them with a false answer.

Eventually I will populate google with many false answered questions about Mt. Gox.

So please just answer my question.

Way to incriminate yourself. Good show old chap. Roll Eyes

Don't roll your eyes at me.
I have the Force Majeure behind me. xD

Epinnoia

full member

Activity: 209

Merit: 100

Quote from: dennis_sweden on June 21, 2011, 01:58:28 PM

kokojie has contended elswhere that Tradehill runs on a dedicated server. I'm no computer whizz but it the link appears to confirm this.

Ran my own web-hosting company for six years. I can tell you that multiple IP addresses can route to the same physical machine. So the best such a reverse-IP lookup can do is tell you how many domains are on that one IP, not every IP assigned to the box.

In other words, a dedicated IP address is not the same as a dedicated server. Many times, the box will only have a single IP -- but not always.

NO_SLAVE

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Tasty Champa on June 21, 2011, 02:39:57 PM

1 month from today,
if I still have not received an answer,
I'm going to answer each of them with a false answer.

Eventually I will populate google with many false answered questions about Mt. Gox.

So please just answer my question.

Way to incriminate yourself. Good show old chap. Roll Eyes

Tasty Champa

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Tasty Champa on June 21, 2011, 02:18:30 PM

what about the double percentage charged on trades over the weekend?

will those be rolled back too? Huh

I'm going to ask this question until i get an answer.
If I don't get an answer, I'm going to ask again.
Then, if by chance I still don't receive an answer, I'm going to ask it again.

each time I get banned, I will ask more questions.

1 month from today,
if I still have not received an answer,
I'm going to answer each of them with a false answer.

Eventually I will populate google with many false answered questions about Mt. Gox.

So please just answer my question.

Tasty Champa

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

what about the double percentage charged on trades over the weekend?

will those be rolled back too? Huh

dennis_sweden

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Bit_Happy

kokojie has contended elswhere that Tradehill runs on a dedicated server. I'm no computer whizz but it the link appears to confirm this.

Quote

kokojie
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Re: Wild trading at tradehill
Today at 02:36:16 am
   Reply with quote #41
Quote from: lardycake on June 20, 2011, 07:05:41 pm
Tradehill is run from a shared hosting account on hostgator.

Dedicated Hosting:
tradehill.com is hosted on a dedicated server. Reverse IP look up says zero sites other than tradehill.com hosted at their IP address.

Code:

http://whois.domaintools.com/tradehill.com

Bit_Happy

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1040

A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: The_Duke on June 21, 2011, 07:22:53 AM

The real way of showing what we think of the situation is of course by just moving to a different trade site as soon as MtGox re-opens.

a different trade site

FYI: Tradehill is (almost certainly) on shared hosting, they didn't even invest in a VPS.
LOL(?)

jaybny

sr. member

Activity: 410

Merit: 250

Proof-of-Skill - protoblock.com

MtGox.. you really need PR and a spokesman.

airdata

hero member

Activity: 1148

Merit: 501

Bitsalame : How many btc do you stand to lose when the rollback happens?

airdata

hero member

Activity: 1148

Merit: 501

Quote from: MagicalTux on June 21, 2011, 05:50:57 AM

Quote from: bitcoinminer on June 21, 2011, 05:49:05 AM

Quote from: MagicalTux on June 21, 2011, 05:45:26 AM

3) Legal troubles?

Even if dismissed, lawsuits count as "legal troubles". I personally wasn't affected (fortunately).

Although I have to admit, I am really unsure how you could roll back all the trades or have nothing be stolen... did NOBODY withdraw ANY of the BTC they bought during that time?

Some people did, we'll leave those as negative balance and count it as loss if not solved.

As for lawsuits we got threats only so far.

Mr Tux : Would you be willing to give a ballpark estimate of the amount of btc that were 'successfully' withdrawn before the site went down?
From what I've seen on the forums here and other sites, I'm guessing there are alot of people who would sooner run to trade hill than even up a negative balance on mtgox.
Thanks.

-Airdata

dennis_sweden

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

THE LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE PLC has following stipulations regarding "force majeure":

Quote

3. Liability
3.1 Neither party shall be liable to the other for any delay in performance or non-performance of its obligations under this Product Agreement to the extent that such delay or non-performance is caused by a Force Majeure Event.

3.2 In no circumstances (other than circumstances of fraud, dishonesty or wilful misconduct) shall the Exchange be liable for:
(a) any loss or damage caused by computer viruses transmitted through the Site or by email or other electronic delivery of the Product; or

3
(b) loss of profit, goodwill, business opportunity or anticipated savings suffered by the Customer as a result of any breach of duty by the Exchange whether in statute, contract or tort (including negligence).

3.3 Subject to Clause 3.2 the Exchange shall be liable for any loss suffered by the Customer as a result of the Exchange’s breach of duty whether in statute, contract or tort (including negligence) however its liability whether in statute, contract or tort (including negligence) shall be limited to the Agreed Sum per occurrence or series of occurrences arising from a single cause.

Quote

“Force Majeure Event”
means, in relation to a party any event or circumstance:
which is not reasonably foreseeable; and
is beyond that party’s reasonable control; and
prevents or limits the ability of that party to meets its obligations under this Product Agreement.

https://www.services.londonstockexchange.com/exchangecharge/resources/ITC%20Terms%20and%20Conditions.pdf

If applicable to Mtgox (as Mtgox purports to claim) Mtgox is liable in tort law; negligence of known systemic risks of its security.

Mtgox cannot claim "force majeure" either as it was reasonably forseeable and was not beyond Mtgox reasonable control to implement a more rigid security scheme.

Sukrim

Quote

Just read the ToS of Tibanne, which you (as it seems?!) agreed to when opening an account on MtGox:
http://legal.tibanne.com/

These provisions would never be upheld in a court of law. Contracts/sections of contracts are regularly declared void/unapplicable due to a lack of legal adherence.

NO_SLAVE

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

I dont give a shit about any of this, I just want my money or BTC back.
Now please get the site up, this delay is eroding any confidence you garnered by the
public relations campaign youve attmpted in the past couple days.

thanks

Batouzo

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: aral on June 21, 2011, 09:42:30 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on June 21, 2011, 09:34:08 AM

Just read the ToS of Tibanne, which you (as it seems?!) agreed to when opening an account on MtGox:
http://legal.tibanne.com/

I never read that and was not directed to read it during the registration process, so I cannot be said to have agreed with that. Normal websites do have a 'I have read the ToS' checkbox at least.

No-one cares if you read it; but indeed there should be an [ ] I have read and agree to ToS checkbox. Probably it depends on jurisdiction. Actually, which one counts here, JP or where the user lives or.... ?

aral

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Sukrim on June 21, 2011, 09:34:08 AM

Just read the ToS of Tibanne, which you (as it seems?!) agreed to when opening an account on MtGox:
http://legal.tibanne.com/

I never read that and was not directed to read it during the registration process, so I cannot be said to have agreed with that. Normal websites do have a 'I have read the ToS' checkbox at least.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1006

Just read the ToS of Tibanne, which you (as it seems?!) agreed to when opening an account on MtGox:
http://legal.tibanne.com/

Maxxx

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 11

Lol, I haven't commented on this until now but this is laughable.

It was obvious that Mt. Gox was compromised at least a week before this event. There were people claiming that the USD in their accounts had been used to purchase BTC and then withdrawn on multiple forums, including Reddit. This was at least a full week before and leading up to this incident.

Mt. Gox needs to cut their losses and repay the original account owner. You cannot simply "Rollback" the exchange because people have already withdrawn BTC that was involved.

I mean seriously. I'm half expecting MTux to hop on a chopper to a remote island now.

So long and thanks for all the cash!

This Force Majeure is painfully laughable... I almost feel embarrassed.

I'm the biggest Bitcoin supporter I know, but I'm not going to defend the actions of a Bitcoin exchange like this. Tux needs to come out with an official statement soon. No more smoke and mirrors.

Topic: Mt.Gox and void trades: Force Majeure - page 3. (Read 20585 times)