Topic: Mt.Gox and void trades: Force Majeure - page 4. (Read 20653 times)

Well one thing is for certain: MagicalTux knows as much about the law as he does security . . . which is to say not much at all.

Force Majeure? Is this being discussed with a straight face? Send in the clowns!

Giving access to areas of a database that are not needed for an auditor todo their job is 'groos negligence'. There is no reason why an auditor needs access the the hashed passwords. What are they going to do check to make sure the hash is correct and why would there be a need for doing so? This would mean that you have a special section on the site for checking the hashed password or god forbid access to the source code.

This is going to be a tought lesson for you and those involed. I think we need to know who this auditor is. Those that want to might want to take action against the auditor.

With that said, I have yet to do business with Mt Gox. But it wont stop me. I am of the opinion that when this set back runs it course that Mt. Gox will be the most secure of the exchanges. It might not sound like it, but Im on your side MagicalTux.

I believe they can actually, there is a Japanese data protection law that requires certain precautions are taken to protect users' data, including email addresses.  It is obvious that mtgox hasn't complied with this law, I wonder even if it is a criminal matter and the relevant authorities should be notified.

Nonsense. My email adress is not public, and unless I give someone permission to publish it, they are not allowed to do so. ANd even if they do, as soon as it is leaked in a context, more than just the adress is leaked, because it is an adress linked to other information. In this case the information that that adress held an account on MtGox.

If you really see it, then address that, instead of doing childish insults.

There was no implicit or explicit contract for mtgox to act as a password manager and protect you login credentials for other sites. A great number of sites store plain text passwords and a huge number store plain or salted md5 passwords. From an industry best practice point of view, MD5-crypt passwords are regarded as secure without bogging down the authentication server.
Sites do get hacked and do suffer from inside jobs. It's entirely your fault if you chose weak passwords AND reuse them on other sites. mtgox can only be liable for the damage on the system they control; as it seems there's no damage, all balances will be untouched.


Accidentally leaking someone's email is not and cannot be a crime. An email address is public by definition. Sending spam is a crime in some legislations, but to pin that on mtgox would mean to prove they intentionally and malevolently shared the email list with any spammers.
Is it a bad way to treat your customers ? Sure. Can they press criminal charges or request compensation ? Nope.

Up to this topic, I actually felt a bit sorry for Tux and what happened and was under the impression he was honestly trying to fix things... but after seeying the haughtiness in his post... I hope someone does sue him.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your reasoning skills are evidently subpar, especially considering your reliance of informal fallacies and irrelevant peculiarities as bases of your deduction.
Obviously it is a waste of time to discuss with you, but for the record I have a substantial amount of bitcoins and dollars in MtGox.

I deeply trusted its management. I appreciate the fast reactiveness to the damage.
What I don't appreciate is the shortsightedness.
What I really strongly hate is that they are trying to wash their hands from it, at all costs.

And the series of lies after lies after lies after lies:
1) Denying any hacking involved, therefore they aren't liable. (check their official statement at mtgox.com)
2) When the evidence was overwhelming, they tried to "outsource" the responsible (the so called "auditor"), therefore they aren't responsible. (well, never showed proof of it either)
3) They say they the discovered CSRF weren't never used, therefore they aren't liable. (check the support emails they reply  to those who report CSRF exploits)

and now... the best of all of them
4) Hacking is Force Majeure, therefore they are exonerated from any responsability.
(an argument that is very amateurish. It is not Force Majeure, it is not your definition in your ToS what matters, it is the law what matters. If that is your defense, really, your lawyer is no better than Lionel Hutz.


Be fucking honest: what the hell really happened behind the screens?
How deep was the system compromised?
What exploits were used?
How many accounts were compromised?
What have you learned from it?
We saw your good reactiveness and quick damage control, now what proactive measures have you taken to not allow it to happen again?

Stop the lies, be honest Mark. We know you got PWNED.
AnD BE FUCKING RESPONSIBLE: YOU SCREWED UP BIG TIME, IT WAS PREVENTABLE.
You are trying to escape the costly compensations, but you must amend your mistakes.
Earn our trust back.

PS: to the guy askigg about the damage, are you kidding? Leaking the userbase is not something we can just let it pass.
A lot of people, people who were early adopters lost their bitcoins because of the leak, because they reuse it in other sites. (40/60 fault. 40% fault of the user for weak password, and 60% MtGox because for LAME security and Because HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER).
Also all of the 60K users now have their private emails publicized and now are definitely gonna be in the lists of spammers and scammers. More than one fell into the spoofed phishing attempt. Spammers know that everyone in the list have deep interests in libertarian ideals, digital currencies, heavy computer users, miners, programmers, geeks, nerds, enthusiasts, etc... It is a great profile to market.

sure, i could be wrong but i see these as all logical deductions based on his behavior, the facts, and how he is conducting himself.

oh, but they most certainly are.

sorry. i changed.

the trolls are back b/c they sense the tide is turning back in favor of btc and mtgox.    sorry boys, nice try.

LOL. Maybe. I had the same idea, just a minute ago ....

Looks like bitsalame has started a new trend... SPEAK LOUD IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR POINT, DAMNIT!



maybe this is what they want?

sure, it wasn't an ad hominem attack.  it was a childish insult.  how old are you?  because you are acting like a stroppy 12-year-old

1) you are pathetic (at least in this posts above) - for the reasons that follow:
2) you made ad ad hominem attack - actually it was all that your post was
3) you imply that person must be stupid because he just joined our community. This is a fallacy. How you know how long he used BTC overall (even if that mattered) - or better, how knowledgeable he is in business/finances/trading/law?
If Benjamin Franklin would join some local group of people talking about a politics, would you also imply he doesn't know shit, just because he just-joined?
4) "you had no money on the line in bitcoin" - how the hell do you know that?
5) you say that if he has no money on the line then he should not speak. Then what, if soliders would be murdering people in country X then you should not say anything bad (or good) about it unless you have family in country X?

Seriously.


EDITED:
Sure but his motives are not relevant to his opinion how law would work here. Just the law matters no matter who quotes it.

wow, you sound intelligent.  let me define from Wikipedia:

The ad hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[3]

LOL!

What with orders @10 @12 @15 placed at least partially (imho mostly) by legitimate users.