Topic: MT.Gox caught lying again - page 2. (Read 7169 times)

I've given Mt Gox all my ID. Everything I do with BTC investment is legit and has a paper trail. Including ID.

I acknowledge there are AML issues that BTC related organisations must face, but it seems that some of these companies are taking advantage of this to their own ends. The ends not relating to us customers in a positive way.

What is worse than FUD is when a business leverages its clients just for its profit. I have no problem with a business making money, but when MY money is held up for 21 days for no explainable reason that really annoys me.

It has been said that if governments don't like Bitcoin, then one thing they can go after is the exchanges. The anti-money-laundering pressure is such government intervention; if you want to do business with banks, you have to comply, and eventually the Fed wants to regulate you directly. I'm sure the government doesn't like not having the level of access they do to banks, where governments basically have a wiretap of all ACH transfers flowing directly to them.

This does seem to be a liquidity problem at Goxx. However Dwolla probably aggravates this, they seems to be doing their own dirty tricks to their customers which might hold up funds going into and out of MtGox (as if simply stealthfully stealing money out of customer's accounts wasn't a dirty trick). In addition, MtGox has to spread and transfer it's government currencies between several different accounts - one person might deposit $10,000 into MtGox's bank account by wire transfer, and then another might want to withdraw $10,000 by Dwolla. You'd have to anticipate where the money is needed and transfer it strategically in advance; still with a disproportionate flow of funds, these internal transfers take time and continually use up liquidity.

MtGox can grab your money on the opposite site of money flow too - such as Dwolla money being transferred into MtGox and MtGox not making it available to you until you submit ID verification - your money is in MtGox's Dwolla account, but they have stolen it from you until you comply with their new policy. Note that ID verification is only forced on you when they can hold your money for ransom - a trick copied from Dwolla, the same trick that Dwolla has copied from the biggest evil of all, PayPal.

Think on this.

How much does Mt Gox have tied up in "OPM" (other people's money)

If they had a significant amount of this and were investing (winning? losing? who knows?) in other schemes ....

Its like insurance ... tie up the claim as long as possible. When you have (think scale here) a LOT of funds tied up, you can make a lot off what you're investing while fighting the people you're meant to be paying. You still pay (eventually) but get to use the funds in the interim. Not a good long term business model. Note I said "long term"

Some insurance companies can have 100s of millions tied up ... day by day, that's a lot of money they're earning.

Even at market term deposit rates, 10m USD can earn a significant amount per day for the holders of the funds

Is that the one where they admitted they had screwed up (again)?

You were reported to the police??! What the hell for?

Well, my Dwolla withdrawal processed today, magically after I rejected the request to cancel it.  Took a bit over 3 weeks, NOT including the ~4 weeks the first failed withdrawal took to be canceled.

I'm basically free of MTGox now, and I will not be keeping any significant balance there ever again.  I've had good luck with Bitfloor so far, so I can tentatively recommend it going forward.

FUD?

Well as per my story above, MtGox let me know when my money was in their Bank account, but not yet credited to my trading account.
Will Dwolla do the same?  Go on.. ask Dwolla support if the money is in *Dwolla's Bank account*. Let's see how they respond.

I find it stunning that you'd assume Dwolla is some sort of efficient, honest operation after the way they've treated various Bitcoin-related things.
Dwolla charge what.. 25c per transfer?  If anyone is on a shoestring and doing the dodgy it's likely them.

Bet your 10K is busy earning Dwolla interest while they faff about with their AML reporting.

I don't see how you can make the claim that they couldn't cancel it.
I used an international wire transfer to send a few thousand dollars to mtgox a while back - and it arrived in their account in JPY - but I had selected in my Banking interface to send as USD.
Mtgox warned me that it had arrived in JPY and asked me whether I wanted it deposited in my mtgox JPY wallet or converted to USD at a fee.
I wasn't pleased about the multiple international conversion fees I would be charged - so mtgox suggested I ask my bank to cancel the transfer and rewire it with an explicit instruction to send in USD and not convert.
ie - the funds had actually arrived in their account, yet I was still able to cancel and resend so that it arrived to them as USD.
This ended up taking a few extra days rather than the usual 24-72 hrs.
I don't think any of this time was due to mtgox - it was all the manual processing involved between the various banks.

It seems entirely plausible to me that your money is in the hands of Dwolla awaiting their processing of whatever their AML policies are - and also quite a reasonable suggestion from mtgox that you authorise them to request their bank to put in a cancellation of the transfer from their end.

p.s I think various banks charge fees to cancel/amend international wire transfer requests. In the case where the mistake was made by your bank or intermediary bank and arrives in wrong currency - then presumably you wouldn't be charged.. but I'm not sure about cancellations.  Still - 'failure to arrive in beneficiary's account in a reasonable time frame' might be a good reason.
It strikes me that you should be asking DWOLLA where the money is anyway.

So I just got a request on my support ticket from MTGox:


This, after almost a month of them holding my money (for a second time).  This is the second time they have tried/are canceling my large withdrawals.  This is a nice solution for them, because I would then have to pay a 4th time to convert the funds, and they get to skim yet another .5% off the top of my initial $26,000 for the privilege of converting it, yet again, to BTC.

I would say that pretty much confirms that MTGox is out of money.  They can't even handle $10,000 withdrawal.

I say this because if it were an AML thing and Dwolla was holding it, how would they be able to cancel it and "return" the money to me?  If it was being held for AML, they wouldn't be able to return it.  MTGox is the one "holding" it... and they are holding it because they can't pay it.

subbing

Another day, another MTGox fail. I'm sure it'll all come through tomorrow, right?  Right?

dat delicious interest

Also, why did reeses delete their post?

Sorry Casascius, I don't have access to the funds in any way, shape or form.  They are being held by MTGox without any recourse, explanation or estimate of when they will release them.  They have basically stolen $10,000.

I currently have a little over $100 on MtGox. After completely verifying my account on both MtGox and Dwolla (Drivers license, SSN, etc.) I sent $5 from MtGox-->Dwolla to see if it would pass through before I send $100. Thankfully I read this (and other) threads before sending everything through. Would hate to have a hundred tied up. Can't imagine having thousands tied up for nearly a month with bullshit excuses. So if two weeks goes by, and it's still not going through, I'm withdrawing all my coins before MtGox crashes.

Although some good news and sorta off subject: verifying my account with MtGox was rather painless and done in a day or so. Dwolla took four days. Sent all the stuff in Monday, waited, then called them up Friday (yesterday) and they fixed it right on the phone within a minute.

Are you able to buy and withdraw the BTC?  I'd buy a chunk of it off you, at least a fourth of it ($2500 worth) and pay by USD wire transfer.

Another day passes and MTGox still holds my $10,000 without recourse. 

Gonna hit a month, soon.

^this, interested to hear their allegations

I only remembered it because it being discussed in an open forum was a WTF moment and you asking to cancel the wire transfers and remove your money by another means made your behaviour look even more suspicious.

While Japan supposedly criminalises "tipping off" under its AML/CFT provisions, Mark did post this openly.  Whether it would count as "tipping off" is up for debate I guess as he refers to "law enforcement" rather than JAFIC specifically or the filing of a STR (you'd think nations would standardise the terminology for these reports).


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.872685

I'm not defending Goat.  What happened was exactly the kind of activity which should trigger further investigation, but just because organisations are not supposed to make customers aware of reports to AML regulators and/or financial intelligence units doesn't mean it never happens.