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Topic: MtGox Collapsing (and taking bitcoin down with them?) - page 2. (Read 13643 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100

Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?
If you request less than 1 BTC, make sure that there is a 0 before the decimal. MtGox is picky about that.

bagazaga, you officially earned the title of awesome!! Thanks!!!
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
I don't think, that bitcoin will collapse if Mt.Gox collapses. There are other ways/platforms to make trades.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
We are working on improving the situation with liquidity, and have currently some issues because of the volume of illegal activity that took place in the past year.

Things are moving forward and I expect to see things back to normal by June.

Maybe it's time to think about selling Mt.Gox to someone, who can cover Mt.Gox's financial holes, while it's worth is above zero.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1015

Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?
If you request less than 1 BTC, make sure that there is a 0 before the decimal. MtGox is picky about that.
donator
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
you got hacked bitch!
USE CAMP BX AND STOP USING THE BITCOIN GIANTS.

DO NOT USE GOX
DO NOT USE DEEPBIT.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.

No shit, Sherlock!

I warned you Grin

But seriously, they should disclose their financials and other relevant information.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1002
WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.

No shit, Sherlock!
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
WARNING: Statement of the obvious

Mt.gox has issues.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
My USD wires are delayed for more than a week.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100

Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.


My BTC withdrawals aren't delayed, Mt. Gox says that I need to enter a valid amount even when I am requesting 1/10th of my account balance.

Is there some sort of minimum withdrawal?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
If everyone who bitched about the size of Gox used a different exchange, they probably wouldn't be the biggest anymore.
vip
Activity: 33
Merit: 0
anybody knows how long a transfer from mt gox to okpay takes? been waiting for a week almost now and no replys from mt gox...
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Like somebody said on this forum:

"
Bitcoin isn't decentralized.
It's power is in hands of a couple of big parties.

1) Mtgox (handles 80% of all exchange traffic)
2) Deepbit & BTCGUild (handles almost 25 % of all mining)
3) Early Early adopters (50~100 people who own ten thousands of Bitcoins per person)
"

Power like that doesn't matter.  Provided it has competition or can be replaced.With bitcoin, the power holders can always be replaced.

Let's consider the alternatives; where is the irreplaceable power in the fiat/e-cash world.
  • You can't access your paypal money without paypal (similarly, dwollar, liberty reserve, goldmoney, etc, etc)
  • You can't earn from seigniorage no matter how many printing presses you own (the equivalent of bitcoin mining)
  • You can't stop others from endlessly issuing new money.
  • You can't store your own money electronically.  The banking system is effectively hard-wired in to our modern world.
  • You can't transfer money.  You might think you can; but you can't.  What you can do is beg permission from one of your debtors (the bank) to transfer that debt to another.  If that other is in a different country; or in a country your debtor, the bank, disapproves of, you have no alternative available to you.
  • Try getting on a plane with $100,000 in cash to understand what irreplaceable "power" really is.
  • You can't pay your tax bill in anything other than fiat (this is the one thing that "backs" fiat)

Is bitcoin perfect?  No.  Are there parties with more influence than others?  Yes.  Nobody is in a monopoly position though.  Nobody in the bitcoin community has written themselves into the law to protect their market.

Bitcoin is better than the alternatives; so let's not worry too much about whether Mt.Gox is the biggest exchange or not -- it's like worrying that Coke are the biggest providers of Cola.
hero member
Activity: 530
Merit: 500
Like somebody said on this forum:

"
Bitcoin isn't decentralized.
It's power is in hands of a couple of big parties.

1) Mtgox (handles 80% of all exchange traffic)
2) Deepbit & BTCGUild (handles almost 25 % of all mining)
3) Early Early adopters (50~100 people who own ten thousands of Bitcoins per person)
"
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Coinabul - Gold Unbarred

4) I believe Coinabul delays in shipping are related to the fact that they are not getting paid timely by MtGox.


We've solved our banking issues.

Cheers,
-Jon
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
They are still taking forever on their dwolla and wire transfers.... really thinking about another ex-changer now..... any suggestions? thanks!
legendary
Activity: 1137
Merit: 1001
In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)

Holy crap I want to do this, if only to f*ck with govt regulators. With interest rates at 0% and fee after fee, this seems economically possible now. I would scan each bill that is deposited, and when you withdraw you get back the exact same bill (I am thinking by making your money non-fungible that it would be more legal?) This would also mean no fraud.


Back on topic: I don't understand the hate for MtGox. The most successful bitcoin application yet, and yet it gets dragged through the mud.
vip
Activity: 490
Merit: 271
Being a firm believer in caveat emptor, I'm not going to claim that fractional reserve banking is an outright fraud. Somewhere in the fine print the banks do state that your money may not be available immediately on request. However, it's not hard to see why people call it that, or why a strict separation was required between interest-bearing time accounts, like CDs, and fee-based demand accounts.
Runs on banks really isn't a problem. Banks can just resume doing what they used to do -- have a clause in the savings agreement that allows them to declare an emergency and defer withdrawals in exchange for paying their customers an increased interest rate. So long as the bank is fundamentally solid and the problem is just liquidity, you can even find other banks who will buy your deposits at the bank suffering from a run. They know they'll get paid the amount, plus more than normal interest, when the bank recovers its liquidity.

The problem is if a bank makes bad investments such as loans that will never be repaid. Insufficient equity is much more devastating than insufficient liquidity.

In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)


Ironically, the equity in this market IS the liquidity.
full member
Activity: 152
Merit: 100
Being a firm believer in caveat emptor, I'm not going to claim that fractional reserve banking is an outright fraud. Somewhere in the fine print the banks do state that your money may not be available immediately on request. However, it's not hard to see why people call it that, or why a strict separation was required between interest-bearing time accounts, like CDs, and fee-based demand accounts.
Runs on banks really isn't a problem. Banks can just resume doing what they used to do -- have a clause in the savings agreement that allows them to declare an emergency and defer withdrawals in exchange for paying their customers an increased interest rate.
Yes, that's what I was referring to by "the fine print". It doesn't change the expectation people have that their deposits are theirs, whatever the bank may really be doing with them.

So long as the bank is fundamentally solid and the problem is just liquidity, you can even find other banks who will buy your deposits at the bank suffering from a run. They know they'll get paid the amount, plus more than normal interest, when the bank recovers its liquidity.

The problem is if a bank makes bad investments such as loans that will never be repaid. Insufficient equity is much more devastating than insufficient liquidity.
Agreed. You don't normally have serious bank runs due to mere liquidity issues. In a pinch, a bank in need of liquidity, but having sufficient equity, can always take out loans from other banks to cover short-term demand. The disconnect between depositors' expectations and reality is only revealed in the event of a large-scale economic downturn, such as at the start of the Great Depression, when the banks' investments are revealed to be systematically bad.

Moreover, in a situation like that--precisely the one the FDIC was supposedly instituted to protect against--the FDIC would be useless. They don't have anywhere near enough reserves to make up for a wide-spread run on the banks without printing up so much new money that the dollar would become worthless. The FDIC's only positive influence, if you can call it that, is to generate enough false confidence to keep people from demanding immediate withdrawals once the crisis is revealed.

In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)
Not a surprising result. The honest bank is in a similar position to someone trying to operate a self-sufficient toll road in competition with the public (tax-funded) roads. When people are already forced to pay for the public option, even a reasonable price for a private alternative is too much. The FDIC isn't exactly tax-funded (unless you count inflation), but it does come with the "reassuring" backing of the federal government and access to the Treasury. It's hard for a completely private insurer to compete.

Rather than a vault-only bank, I think I would offer two types of accounts (time and demand), and clearly explain the risks involved with the time accounts. The demand accounts would charge a fee, but have 100% reserves. The time accounts would pay interest, but withdrawal requests would be subject to delays and/or interest penalties, as with CDs, plus a prominent disclaimer that they are subject to investment risk and may lose value. By mixing the two you can get the same effect as a modern-style savings account, except with full disclosure and control over the level of risk. The only real problem in the first place was blending the terms of time and demand accounts while obscuring the details.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
Being a firm believer in caveat emptor, I'm not going to claim that fractional reserve banking is an outright fraud. Somewhere in the fine print the banks do state that your money may not be available immediately on request. However, it's not hard to see why people call it that, or why a strict separation was required between interest-bearing time accounts, like CDs, and fee-based demand accounts.
Runs on banks really isn't a problem. Banks can just resume doing what they used to do -- have a clause in the savings agreement that allows them to declare an emergency and defer withdrawals in exchange for paying their customers an increased interest rate. So long as the bank is fundamentally solid and the problem is just liquidity, you can even find other banks who will buy your deposits at the bank suffering from a run. They know they'll get paid the amount, plus more than normal interest, when the bank recovers its liquidity.

The problem is if a bank makes bad investments such as loans that will never be repaid. Insufficient equity is much more devastating than insufficient liquidity.

In the mid 80's, some Libertarians who believed that fractional-reserve banking was a fraud opened an "honest" bank. They stored your money in their vault and had 100% reserves. Of course, they couldn't pay any interest and even had to charge a small storage fee. Not surprisingly, their service wasn't very popular at all. (Though, in fairness, part of this is because the government insures bank deposits. Heck, in today's economic climate, they might actually do some business for people with amounts over the FDIC limit.)
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