MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 40.

DrApricot

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Quote from: iikun on September 10, 2014, 12:09:08 PM

Quote from: DrApricot on September 10, 2014, 11:45:33 AM

Quote from: bitcoinvest on September 10, 2014, 10:35:53 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on September 10, 2014, 03:21:22 AM

I still dont understand why they dont release that damn claim form, its not like the forms or the situation will change anytime soon.

I think it's very simple...

Do you remember Vircurex situation?

Do that for a momment and again think MtGox

Recentrly received a big ammount of Cash from OkPay. Why send them to gox and not to clients? Huh

And investigation have told us is ongoing.

my thought is that the have found 100% what happened and trying to reopen somehow the exchange without anyone "hurts"..
So they have to find the best way to tell us "the truth" and give back to owners the BTC. This will take some time to write the senario etc....

Many threads of evidence do point in this direction. If so, then perhaps Mt. Gox can be reopened using Vircurex as the model under "mew" management and the watchful eye of JADA. The judge can dismiss the bankruptcy action, and there will be loud cheering all around. Time for a cold one!

my time in Japan tells me that this is absolutely not what is happening. Once a Japanese court has chosen to go one way they do not easily turn around. Ask this man:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/27/japanese-man-freed-death-row-retrial

That was a truly horrendous story. Thanks for posting it. I'm glad they finally release that guy after 45 years. I thought the judge's basis for the death row man's release was interesting:

Quote

"It is unjust to detain the defendant further, as the possibility of his innocence has become clear to a respectable degree."

Were the court ever to to dismiss the Mt. Gox bankruptcy, its decision would likely need to appear both respectable as well as with the intent of doing justice in the matter.

iikun

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Quote from: DrApricot on September 10, 2014, 11:45:33 AM

Quote from: bitcoinvest on September 10, 2014, 10:35:53 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on September 10, 2014, 03:21:22 AM

I still dont understand why they dont release that damn claim form, its not like the forms or the situation will change anytime soon.

I think it's very simple...

Do you remember Vircurex situation?

Do that for a momment and again think MtGox

Recentrly received a big ammount of Cash from OkPay. Why send them to gox and not to clients? Huh

And investigation have told us is ongoing.

my thought is that the have found 100% what happened and trying to reopen somehow the exchange without anyone "hurts"..
So they have to find the best way to tell us "the truth" and give back to owners the BTC. This will take some time to write the senario etc....

Many threads of evidence do point in this direction. If so, then perhaps Mt. Gox can be reopened using Vircurex as the model under "mew" management and the watchful eye of JADA. The judge can dismiss the bankruptcy action, and there will be loud cheering all around. Time for a cold one!

my time in Japan tells me that this is absolutely not what is happening. Once a Japanese court has chosen to go one way they do not easily turn around. Ask this man:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/27/japanese-man-freed-death-row-retrial

Also, as to the question why the money is put into holding rather than being paid out, the answer is in the quote above from bernard75. They haven't established exactly who the clients are & who is owed what. So how could they possibly pay out??

optimism is good, but having blinders over your eyes looking for good to come isn't i'm afraid. We will still all be here come next year when Kobayashi finally gets off his ass & releases the claim form. (I bet that 6mil will be eaten up by his "fees" tho)

DrApricot

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Quote from: bitcoinvest on September 10, 2014, 10:35:53 AM

Quote from: bernard75 on September 10, 2014, 03:21:22 AM

I still dont understand why they dont release that damn claim form, its not like the forms or the situation will change anytime soon.

I think it's very simple...

Do you remember Vircurex situation?

Do that for a momment and again think MtGox

Recentrly received a big ammount of Cash from OkPay. Why send them to gox and not to clients? Huh

And investigation have told us is ongoing.

my thought is that the have found 100% what happened and trying to reopen somehow the exchange without anyone "hurts"..
So they have to find the best way to tell us "the truth" and give back to owners the BTC. This will take some time to write the senario etc....

Many threads of evidence do point in this direction. If so, then perhaps Mt. Gox can be reopened using Vircurex as the model under "mew" management and the watchful eye of JADA. The judge can dismiss the bankruptcy action, and there will be loud cheering all around. Time for a cold one!

bitcoinvest

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13eJ4feC39JzbdY2K9W3ytQzWhunsxL83X

Quote from: bernard75 on September 10, 2014, 03:21:22 AM

I still dont understand why they dont release that damn claim form, its not like the forms or the situation will change anytime soon.

I think it's very simple...

Do you remember Vircurex situation?

Do that for a momment and again think MtGox

Recentrly received a big ammount of Cash from OkPay. Why send them to gox and not to clients? Huh

And investigation have told us is ongoing.

my thought is that the have found 100% what happened and trying to reopen somehow the exchange without anyone "hurts"..
So they have to find the best way to tell us "the truth" and give back to owners the BTC. This will take some time to write the senario etc....

Claims are simple and i can't read anymore senarios... what you had available by the time closed? THAT IS YOUR PROPERTY and you can claim for it....

all the others are silly to me.... So when they extended the proof of claims i think they did that because there is no need to fiil it...
They have your documents etc (i don't know what will happen to non verified accounts but i don't care also)

So to close my thought, they will (THEY HAVE TO) return our BTC back. if not this will be written in modern History as the biggest inside theft....

But all those are just thoughts

let's see....

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: DrApricot on September 10, 2014, 02:21:28 AM

You can't file claims yet.

Quote

The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we are in a situation to announce it.

Correct. The situation is still rather liquid with the police investigating what happened to some of the bitcoins. I would say it's an open question exactly what proportion should be paid out in liquidation. It's not even clear how many bitcoins were originally present, so that makes it a little difficult to figure out the percentage missing. Opinions vary on what percentage of Mt. Gox bitcoins have been recovered, and there's a complete absence of any proof one way or the other. Hopefully, the police will eventually make known the results of their investigation.
[/quote]

Indeed, and then there is the question of what will Mr. Nobuaki consider to be your claim -- your final balance on MtGOX, or your deposits minus your withdrawals.

I find it totally bizarre that the former MrGOX clients do not seem to care for this question. Or even understand it.

bernard75

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I still dont understand why they dont release that damn claim form, its not like the forms or the situation will change anytime soon.

DrApricot

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Quote from: Newar on September 10, 2014, 01:30:37 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 10, 2014, 12:29:31 AM

Quote from: GreenSky on September 09, 2014, 08:48:46 PM

I am a US citizen who had more than $5000 USD stored in MtGox at the time of its collapse.
What action can I take right now to work towards getting my money back?

Citizenship is not important. You should file a claim with the Japanese court-appointed liquidator, Mr. Nobuaky Kobayashi. Links and information were posted in this thread a couple of weeks ago; look for "creditors meeting". Some information is available in the MtGOX original website http://www.mtgox.com, but that site may still be managed by Mark, I dont know.

The deadline for filing claims was Nov/2014 but has been postponed to May/2015. There is no date yet for when the spoils will be distributed. Be prepared to get only 1/5 of your claim, at most.

You can't file claims yet.

Quote

The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we are in a situation to announce it.

Correct. The situation is still rather liquid with the police investigating what happened to some of the bitcoins. I would say it's an open question exactly what proportion should be paid out in liquidation. It's not even clear how many bitcoins were originally present, so that makes it a little difficult to figure out the percentage missing. Opinions vary on what percentage of Mt. Gox bitcoins have been recovered, and there's a complete absence of any proof one way or the other. Hopefully, the police will eventually make known the results of their investigation.

Newar

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https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 10, 2014, 12:29:31 AM

Quote from: GreenSky on September 09, 2014, 08:48:46 PM

I am a US citizen who had more than $5000 USD stored in MtGox at the time of its collapse.
What action can I take right now to work towards getting my money back?

Citizenship is not important. You should file a claim with the Japanese court-appointed liquidator, Mr. Nobuaky Kobayashi. Links and information were posted in this thread a couple of weeks ago; look for "creditors meeting". Some information is available in the MtGOX original website http://www.mtgox.com, but that site may still be managed by Mark, I dont know.

The deadline for filing claims was Nov/2014 but has been postponed to May/2015. There is no date yet for when the spoils will be distributed. Be prepared to get only 1/5 of your claim, at most.

You can't file claims yet.

Quote

The method for filing claims will be published on this site as soon as we are in a situation to announce it.

JorgeStolfi

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Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: GreenSky on September 09, 2014, 08:48:46 PM

I am a US citizen who had more than $5000 USD stored in MtGox at the time of its collapse.
What action can I take right now to work towards getting my money back?

Citizenship is not important. You should file a claim with the Japanese court-appointed liquidator, Mr. Nobuaky Kobayashi. Links and information were posted in this thread a couple of weeks ago; look for "creditors meeting". Some information is available in the MtGOX original website http://www.mtgox.com, but that site may still be managed by Mark, I dont know.

The deadline for filing claims was Nov/2014 but has been postponed to May/2015. There is no date yet for when the spoils will be distributed. Be prepared to get only 1/5 of your claim, at most.

GreenSky

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I am a US citizen who had more than $5000 USD stored in MtGox at the time of its collapse.

What action can I take right now to work towards getting my money back?

OhShei8e

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Quote from: bitcoinvest on September 08, 2014, 02:16:52 PM

EDIT: remember this day bitcoiners !

and listen on 0:09 sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7HxLCFMeY#t=12

Sounds like "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile."

bitcoinvest

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13eJ4feC39JzbdY2K9W3ytQzWhunsxL83X

Quote from: bitcoinvest on September 06, 2014, 10:13:17 AM

I think you heard the news right? if not ...

http://mtgox.gr/mtgox-com-reveiced-6-014-910-00-from-okpay-inc

and here is the confirmation grom Coindesk.com article :

http://www.coindesk.com/okpay-ordered-hand-customers-6-1-million-mt-gox/

EDIT: remember this day bitcoiners !

and listen on 0:09 sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF7HxLCFMeY#t=12

DrApricot

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Quote from: DrApricot on September 06, 2014, 04:18:44 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 05, 2014, 03:54:57 PM

Quote from: DrApricot on September 05, 2014, 12:23:10 PM

I'm not sure Mt. Gox should have even declared bankruptcy. Although it allegedly once held 850,000 btc, as now 220,000 have been admitted found, then the company could have continued operating on a fractional reserve basis like a bank. If the real reason for the bankruptcy was a freeze placed on their fiat bank accounts, and not "disappeared" bitcoins, then that issue should have been negotiated with Mizuho Bank before declaring bk. Mt. Gox may have been the recipient of very poor legal advice, and it would make more sense now to somehow roll back the bankruptcy proceeding instead of proposing a sale of assets.

From what I know, the purpose of bankruptcy (full name: "bankruptcy protection") is to halt all individual lawsuits by employees, creditors and investors against the company, so that a single court (1) gets to evaluate whether the company has a reasonable chance of recovering financially and paying off all its obbligations, or, if not, (2) orders that the company be closed, all its assets be sold or auctioned, and the proceeds be distributed fairly among all claimants.

I had understood that MtGOX was forced to file for bankruptcy protection because many clients were already suing it or were about to do so. The Japanese court easily concluded that MtGOX could never recover from such big losses, even after Mark found the 220'000 BTC that he had "forgotten about", so it determined liquidation.

CCI's major conclusions that they have so far released state: (this is google translation)

Quote

CCI experts have focused on alleged involvement of some banks in the affair. Investigating authorities quickly found that cash transfers that were made by several different banks have not reached unattended client accounts in the system of Mt Gox.

The analysis raised the question of whether individual banks in countries such as Poland, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, USA, Canada and Britain had no prior information about the financial position of Mt Gox well before the opening of the insolvency procedure itself.

Collected by CCI information through OSINT warrants investigators to believe that some of the banks have behaved unfairly to their customers. In some cases investigative company even suspect that some banks deliberately concealed information from their customers.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=bg&u=http://www.investor.bg/novini/130/a/piramida-li-e-bila-platformata-za-bitkoini-mt-gox,170327/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmt%2Bgox%2Bcci%26biw%3D1375%26bih%3D771

Usually banks coordinate the movement of funds internationally through a network of overseas correspondent banks. Slowing down or freezing deposits similar to the way OKPay held up Mt. Gox's funds, while speeding up withdrawals would be sufficient to create a situation in which Mt. Gox's cash flow dried up. Having to declare bankruptcy would then be a very likely result in such case.

DrApricot

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 05, 2014, 03:54:57 PM

Quote from: DrApricot on September 05, 2014, 12:23:10 PM

I'm not sure Mt. Gox should have even declared bankruptcy. Although it allegedly once held 850,000 btc, as now 220,000 have been admitted found, then the company could have continued operating on a fractional reserve basis like a bank. If the real reason for the bankruptcy was a freeze placed on their fiat bank accounts, and not "disappeared" bitcoins, then that issue should have been negotiated with Mizuho Bank before declaring bk. Mt. Gox may have been the recipient of very poor legal advice, and it would make more sense now to somehow roll back the bankruptcy proceeding instead of proposing a sale of assets.

From what I know, the purpose of bankruptcy (full name: "bankruptcy protection") is to halt all individual lawsuits by employees, creditors and investors against the company, so that a single court (1) gets to evaluate whether the company has a reasonable chance of recovering financially and paying off all its obbligations, or, if not, (2) orders that the company be closed, all its assets be sold or auctioned, and the proceeds be distributed fairly among all claimants.

I had understood that MtGOX was forced to file for bankruptcy protection because many clients were already suing it or were about to do so. The Japanese court easily concluded that MtGOX could never recover from such big losses, even after Mark found the 220'000 BTC that he had "forgotten about", so it determined liquidation.

CCIs major conclusions that they have so far released state: (this is google translation)

Quote

CCI experts have focused on alleged involvement of some banks in the affair. Investigating authorities quickly found that cash transfers that were made by several different banks have not reached unattended client accounts in the system of Mt Gox.

The analysis raised the question of whether individual banks in countries such as Poland, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, USA, Canada and Britain had no prior information about the financial position of Mt Gox well before the opening of the insolvency procedure itself.

Collected by CCI information through OSINT warrants investigators to believe that some of the banks have behaved unfairly to their customers. In some cases investigative company even suspect that some banks deliberately concealed information from their customers.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=bg&u=http://www.investor.bg/novini/130/a/piramida-li-e-bila-platformata-za-bitkoini-mt-gox,170327/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmt%2Bgox%2Bcci%26biw%3D1375%26bih%3D771

Usually banks coordinate the movement of funds internationally through a network of overseas correspondent banks. Slowing down or freezing deposits similar to the way OKPay held up Mt. Gox's funds, while speeding up withdrawals would be sufficient to create a situation in which Mt. Gox's cash flow dried up. Having to declare bankruptcy would then be a very likely result in such case.

OhShei8e

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Quote from: bernard75 on September 06, 2014, 03:53:19 PM

Haha, ofc they stopped paying him.

I liked him. But bad outcome. Nobody could have expect such a mess.

OhShei8e

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Quote from: smoothie on September 06, 2014, 03:26:38 PM

and Sturle is nowhere to be found in this thread? lol Grin

He is selling his car:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7185485

bernard75

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Haha, ofc they stopped paying him.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

and Sturle is nowhere to be found in this thread? lol Grin

Newar

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Quote from: bernard75 on September 06, 2014, 12:11:31 PM

I am sure that the standard fee dosnt apply to a refund of that magnitude.

Sure. Still seems outrageously high.

I have no experience moving that kind of money. If anyone does, I'd be interested to hear about it.

bernard75

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I am sure that the standard fee dosnt apply to a refund of that magnitude.

Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 40. (Read 908602 times)