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Topic: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. - page 18. (Read 408455 times)

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
What a very painful situation?I can just imagine the heart ache you must be going through not been able to have access to your hard earned money all in the name of  new "Capital Control Law".
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, and is not new.
Bank deposit guarantee schemes almost always have a limit on the amount guaranteed if the bank collapses.

Most people also don't have this much money to potentially lose money because of limits in bank guarantees. It is also not difficult to spread your money around different banks in a way so that the deposit guarantee limits would not affect you.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

google in combination with knowledge of german language helpful:

Klagenfurt. So schnell kann es gehen: Nach der Unterschrift des Bundespräsidenten und Gegenzeichnung des Bundeskanzlers ist das umstrittene Hypo-Sondergesetz nun seit Nachmittag, 31. Juli, offiziell kundgetan. Nun hat die Finanzmarktaufsicht (FMA) zwei Wochen Zeit, die in Arbeit befindliche Umsetzungsverordnung zu erlassen.

Auf dem Verordnungsweg werden die vom Schuldenschnitt, der Mitte August anläuft, erfassten Anleihen benannt. Sie werden für erloschen erklärt. Dann darf von den Gegnern - also in erster Linie vom Schnitt betroffene Parteien - Beschwerde eingebracht werden, was zu erwarten ist.

Mit dem Sondergesetz für die staatliche Krisenbank Hypo Alpe Adria lässt die Republik Gläubiger von landesgarantierten Nachranganleihen im Volumen von 890 Mio. Euro bluten. Betroffene Anleihegläubiger und etliche Juristen sehen die Wertloserklärung der Verbindlichkeiten als Enteignung.

Zwar können Anleiheinvestoren auf die Herausgabe von Geldern erst klagen, wenn die jeweilige Bond-Tranche fällig ist. Verfassungs- und Feststellungsklagen sind aber schon früher möglich.

Etwa von der Weltbank, die in Hypo-Anleihen mit Kärntner Landesgarantie investiert ist, wird erwartet, dass sie vor Gericht auf ihren rechtlichen Sonderstatus verweist und sich wohl durchsetzt.

Im Gesetz ist auch die Einrichtung einer Abbaugesellschaft festgeschrieben.

You can use google-translate, but here are some bullet points:

  • it's about the "Hypo Alpe Adria" Bank. An austrian state bank.
  • federal chancellor and president of Austria have signed a special law to be effective mid-August
  • federal state (subdivisions of Austria, like in germany, for example: Kärnten) guranantees on bonds of the banks in the order of €890 million are "anihilated" by that new law
  • Those bonds are 'annulled' (for lack of better world) by that law
  • bondholders (for example the world bank) are not amused and expected to sue
  • they can sue once their respective bonds are due
  • the worldbank is expected to sue, pointing to it's exceptional legal status and expected to win
  • the new law also effects the founding of an organization to dismantle the bank

;tldr: Austrian state bank Hypo Alpe Adria goes belly up. State annuls bonds. bondholder World Bank will likely be made whole by taxpayer, though => mixed bail-in bail-out.
 


note how it says: "capable and trustworthy"?

(click image for more gems)

oh, and they are "publicly commited", too ;-)



Interesting: in May the sole owner (the austrian state) decided to replace its represantatives on the supervisory board of the bank.

hehe, and in April they had decided to increase the capital by 750 million EUR
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
This guy just lost 3 million Euros at a bank (BES) bankruptcy at Portugal, sorry this is video and in portuguese but can't find any english version:

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/videos/14179041

Oh yeah, it's starting to rumble and roll now ... if you still have sizable cash on deposit in banks you better get reading that fine print closely or prepare to get shafted, then robbed.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
By the way, this style of "bank restructuring" is going to be adopted in the whole European Union.
Soon, everyone's uninsured money (over 100K EUR) in EU banks will be at risk of seizure.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, and is not new.
Bank deposit guarantee schemes almost always have a limit on the amount guaranteed if the bank collapses.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 1116
Just to add to this thread, here in Brazil we had in the 90's what we call here "confisco", where the president confiscated/blocked all accounts balance above 3k Us dollars approx. in todays values, after more than 20 years now this money still missed, many suicides happened that year.
This can happen anytime, any country...stay alert, invest your cash in something.
Bitcoin FTW!
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000
This guy just lost 3 million Euros at a bank (BES) bankruptcy at Portugal, sorry this is video and in portuguese but can't find any english version:

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/videos/14179041
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.

I first heard this news from person who is affected. He stated that his money on Hypo-Alpe bank account is gone.

Should be easy to find an actual news story saying so, if that is the case.

Quote
Anyway, Moody's confirmed that this is happening now in Western Europe:
Quote
The government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee

'Creditors' being the bondholders, not depositors.
The full paragraph:
Quote
Frankfurt am Main, July 22, 2014 -- On 8 July, the Austrian Parliament passed legislation that allows the government to bail-in the subordinated debt holders of nationalised Hypo Alpe-Adria-Bank International AG (HAA) and void the deficiency guarantee of the State of Carinthia (A2 stable) on that portion of the bank's debt. From Moody's perspective, the government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee.
donator
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.

I first heard this news from person who is affected. He stated that his money on Hypo-Alpe bank account is gone.

Anyway, Moody's confirmed that this is happening now in Western Europe:
Quote
The government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html

So it wasn't bailed in with depositors' money, it was bailed in with bondholders' money.
donator
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

Quote
On 8 July, the Austrian Parliament passed legislation that allows the government to bail-in the subordinated debt holders of nationalised Hypo Alpe-Adria-Bank International AG (HAA) and void the deficiency guarantee of the State of Carinthia (A2 stable) on that portion of the bank's debt. From Moody's perspective, the government's decision to place taxpayers' interests above the rights of creditors is unprecedented to the extent that it reneges on a public-sector guarantee.
Source: https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Austrias-Law-on-Hypo-Alpe-Adria-is-credit-negative--PR_304468


Search more:
https://encrypted.google.com/#q=hypo+alpe-adria-bank+bail-in

legendary
Activity: 4060
Merit: 1303
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.

The economist had a little info:
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21604580-small-bank-puts-europes-new-dogma-failing-banks-test-hungry-hypo

Plus:
http://www.euromoney.com/Article/3361560/The-spectre-of-bail-in-risk-across-Europe.html
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
Nobody even noted how Hypo Alpen bank in Austria collapsed recently and then was bailed-in with 100% of depositor's money and how country's parliament void of all insured deposits from that bank.

What exactly happened? Google not helpful.
donator
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Is he now a proud shareholder of a respected bank?


A proud shareholder of dead bank Smiley
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Ridiculous..

Yes, it's ridiculous. But make no mistakes: preparations are done in all western central-bank-controlled countries to pull this off on a larger scale.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
I followed this when it happend, how did it turn out? Anything refunded?

First 100k was refunded, everything else is gone for good.

Is he now a proud shareholder of a respected bank?
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
Im scared AF to cash out on my little Bitcoins I have, it's very scary to know they can froze your entire saving accounts out of nowhere. My friend tried to withdraw 0.5 BTC and he got his bank account frozen until they basically want to unfroze it. I'll have to re-check im doing it all perfect if I ever want to withdraw some BTC.

I wish people would stop referring to "selling BTC for fiat money" as "withdrawing BTC".
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
This is why millionaires keep their money in offshore bank accounts, or precious metals like gold, or priceless/expensive paintings/artifacts etc etc.

Offshore bank accounts are no more solution after FATCA. Every USD transfer can be stopped by US intermediary bank. Many offshore financial companies are investigating bitcoin potential right now.

But rare antiques, exclusive real estate, gold and resources are still good way to save your wealth.

Well Bitcoin if stabilized it would be a great means of storing wealth and using it offshore. All an offshore financial service has to do is implement a system like Protonmail that has 2 passwords one that both the customer and company know which lets you access your account on their servers, and one that only the customer knows which decrypts your account on their servers. This would protect a US citizen as they can plead the 5th, and the offshore financial service company is safe because they don't know what their customers are doing, in short, your privacy is backed by cryptography, not 3rd parties that can be subpoenaed.
donator
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
This is why millionaires keep their money in offshore bank accounts, or precious metals like gold, or priceless/expensive paintings/artifacts etc etc.

Offshore bank accounts are no more solution after FATCA. Every USD transfer can be stopped by US intermediary bank. Many offshore financial companies are investigating bitcoin potential right now.

But rare antiques, exclusive real estate, gold and resources are still good way to save your wealth.
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