My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. - page 50.

Kazu

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Quote from: rpietila on April 20, 2013, 01:47:38 PM

Quote from: cho on April 20, 2013, 01:42:58 PM

Quote from: flavius on April 20, 2013, 12:52:54 PM

I find it funny how many "businesses' post on this forum acting like it's not a big deal to have 700k in their bank account. You should NEVER keep a large amount of money in a bank account mainly for tax purposes.

Could you enlighten us about this ? If you need to pay 1M in monthly wages, where do you move that money from ? What is the link with tax ?

The enlightening part is the poster's age, which unfortunately prevents him from understanding anything at all concerning how the world works. As long as you need to spend your days in schools undergoing brainwash, you have pretty little energy to think of anything meaningful.

Or you get educated... but not in the public school (i.e, brainwash) system?

rpietila

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Quote from: cho on April 20, 2013, 01:42:58 PM

Quote from: flavius on April 20, 2013, 12:52:54 PM

I find it funny how many "businesses' post on this forum acting like it's not a big deal to have 700k in their bank account. You should NEVER keep a large amount of money in a bank account mainly for tax purposes.

Could you enlighten us about this ? If you need to pay 1M in monthly wages, where do you move that money from ? What is the link with tax ?

The enlightening part is the poster's age, which unfortunately prevents him from understanding anything at all concerning how the world works. As long as you need to spend your days in schools undergoing brainwash, you have pretty little energy to think of anything meaningful.

cho

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Boar with me

Quote from: flavius on April 20, 2013, 12:52:54 PM

I find it funny how many "businesses' post on this forum acting like it's not a big deal to have 700k in their bank account. You should NEVER keep a large amount of money in a bank account mainly for tax purposes.

Could you enlighten us about this ? If you need to pay 1M in monthly wages, where do you move that money from ? What is the link with tax ?

myrkul

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Quote from: flavius on April 20, 2013, 12:52:54 PM

I find it funny how many "businesses' post on this forum acting like it's not a big deal to have 700k in their bank account. You should NEVER keep a large amount of money in a bank account mainly for tax purposes.

I love how many armchair entrepreneurs come here and post that you should never do this, or that.

flavius

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welcome to riches

I find it funny how many "businesses' post on this forum acting like it's not a big deal to have 700k in their bank account. You should NEVER keep a large amount of money in a bank account mainly for tax purposes.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: myrkul on April 20, 2013, 10:23:56 AM

Instead of putting the brakes on the collapse of European economies, they poured on the gas, and ensured that everybody hits bottom in quick succession.

That was not the cause. Bad monetary policy is, well, bad and the only good monetary policy may be not to have one, but that didn't cause the banks to fail. Failing oversight is what caused the banks to fail. Or to grow to be too large to fail before failing. Effective oversight (whether through market forces or effective government oversight) would have prevented the problem. Ineffective oversight would have caused it regardless of what the EU did. Ineffective oversight is the deciding factor, and that is a purely Cypriot responsibility.

Bad monetary policy also didn't cause the economic mess in general. A solvability crisis doesn't help, but Europe's labour and services markets are still very rigid and rigged. That's socialism for you.

myrkul

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 20, 2013, 10:05:21 AM

Quote from: myrkul on April 20, 2013, 09:46:19 AM

Well, you managed to completely miss the point.

Maybe that's because there wasn't one. Or because you explained it badly.

Country A is failing fast. Country B is not doing so hot, but far from failing just yet. Countries, in their death throes, typically inflate the shit out of their currency, to try and prop up their economies. This means that, ceteris paribus, A would have a much higher inflation rate than B. Putting them on the same currency C forces A and B to have the same inflation rate. Two things could happen here: C slows A down to the inflation rate of B, or C speeds B up to match the rate of A. If Bitcoin (or any hard currency) were C, the former would happen. They'd have no choice. But since the Euro is fiat just like every other type of funny money out there, the latter happens, and B's economy is dragged down by A. A good look at the last decade shows this clearly.

Instead of putting the brakes on the collapse of European economies, they poured on the gas, and ensured that everybody hits bottom in quick succession.

cho

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 20, 2013, 10:06:31 AM

Quote from: rpietila on April 20, 2013, 06:55:56 AM

There would be no need for deposit insurance, if the banks offered 100% backed current accounts.

Exactly, deposit insurance is a bad idea. It only exists to lull people into a false sense of security, so that banks can continue to play their fractional reserve games.

True. It's funny that from the very beginning of fractional banking, this has been designed as a trick not fully advertised to the depositors

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: rpietila on April 20, 2013, 06:55:56 AM

There would be no need for deposit insurance, if the banks offered 100% backed current accounts.

Exactly, deposit insurance is a bad idea. It only exists to lull people into a false sense of security, so that banks can continue to play their fractional reserve games.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: myrkul on April 20, 2013, 09:46:19 AM

Well, you managed to completely miss the point.

Maybe that's because there wasn't one. Or because you explained it badly.

TimJBenham

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Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 02:50:47 PM

Ask, instead: Through what mechanism did the EU cause the economies in both Cyprus and Greece to be fucked up enough to need bailing out?

(hint: check your pocket)

You don't think the government's of Cyprus and Greece might not have had something to do with it? I didn't hear about the EU army that was forcing them to adopt the Euro at gunpoint.

myrkul

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 20, 2013, 01:34:35 AM

Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 03:58:42 PM

And tying 27 failing economies to the same inflation rate is an even worse idea.

Huh? If everybody were using Bitcoin right now, then everybody would be subject to the same inflation rate too.

Well, you managed to completely miss the point.

rpietila

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There would be no need for deposit insurance, if the banks offered 100% backed current accounts.

This is similar to Mt.Gox, who are liable to hold 100% reserve for all the USD deposited there, and obviously cannot pay interest.

These would serve the general populace. If someone wants to give his money to fractional reserve banking, it would be better if he realizes that it is a conscious choice to take risk, and he can lose it all.

The system in place now has used up its trust capital, and deserves and is destined to fail. Everyone holding bank balances denominated in fiat will lose most if not all of their purchasing power in the following 10 years.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 03:58:42 PM

And tying 27 failing economies to the same inflation rate is an even worse idea.

Huh? If everybody were using Bitcoin right now, then everybody would be subject to the same inflation rate too.

MKEGuy

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TO ANYONE IN THE US:

Take a good fricken hard look at this and what this man has/is going through!!! This is the exact same kind of crap we are heading for if you do not pull your head out of the fricken sand and pretend like everything is A ok!!! I'm so sick of the complaciancy in the country. Its PATHETIC!!! This man worked his ass off probably to get what he has and where he is today only to have the govrnment come in and decide that they are entitled to his money. Glad to see that over the last several hundred years one thing has not changed, those are are rich think they are entitled to anything and everything. Those with power are never satisfied and always want MORE! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

To the OP:

I'm incredibly sorry for your loss and I hope things work out for you in the long run. It sucks that you have to go through such measures to protect yourself. Gold luck to you!

myrkul

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 19, 2013, 03:21:05 PM

Printing money is a bad idea...

And tying 27 failing economies to the same inflation rate is an even worse idea.

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 03:15:19 PM

So, in a race to the bottom, tying all the parachutes together was a good idea... why?

If by that you mean adopting the euro, then yes, that was an improvement over what came before. Using something like BTC would have been a much greater improvement, but having a single fiat currency was still an improvement over having many little fiefdoms. And tying the parachutes together is not a good analogy. Printing money is a bad idea, and printing money unilaterally is the only thing the national governments gave up. Cyprus could not have saved itself by printing money. The Cypriots could easily have implemented good banking oversight had they wanted to. Preferably by leaving it to the market, but even if the government did it and had done a decent job. This by itself would have prevented the problem, regardless of what the ECB did.

myrkul

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM

Maybe in the future other forms with more respect for property rights and individual liberties will become viable. I certainly hope so.

Well, that and a half-euro coin will get you a doughnut.

Quote from: mmeijeri on April 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM

Quote

Ask, instead: Through what mechanism did the EU cause the economies in both Cyprus and Greece to be fucked up enough to need bailing out?

Through no mechanism at all because the mechanisms that caused this were implemented by national governments long before there ever was an EU. Mandatory deposit insurance, defective government oversight instead of strict market discipline, legal tender laws, fiat currencies, politically motivated accounting rules instead of market discipline and so on, and so on.

So, in a race to the bottom, tying all the parachutes together was a good idea... why?

mmeijeri

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Martijn Meijering

Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 02:50:47 PM

So you'd be complaining either way?

More loudly now than if they hadn't handled it badly. But as I said, I do accept democracy as the lesser evil, and the least bad viable form of government. Maybe in the future other forms with more respect for property rights and individual liberties will become viable. I certainly hope so.

Quote

Ask, instead: Through what mechanism did the EU cause the economies in both Cyprus and Greece to be fucked up enough to need bailing out?

Through no mechanism at all because the mechanisms that caused this were implemented by national governments long before there ever was an EU. Mandatory deposit insurance, defective government oversight instead of strict market discipline, legal tender laws, fiat currencies, politically motivated accounting rules instead of market discipline and so on, and so on.

myrkul

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Quote from: mmeijeri on April 19, 2013, 02:37:08 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 19, 2013, 02:33:23 PM

If it were "handled well," you'd be OK with them stealing your money for it?

Theoretically no, just like most of the things governments do seem to me to be usurpation of citizens' freedoms, but pragmatically, yes.

So you'd be complaining either way?

Quote from: mmeijeri on April 19, 2013, 02:37:08 PM

Quote

Maybe. Maybe it wouldn't even have occurred.

What makes you even suspect that could be the case? Through what mechanism did the EU cause the Cypriot government to be delinquent in its supervisory duties?

Ask, instead: Through what mechanism did the EU cause the economies in both Cyprus and Greece to be fucked up enough to need bailing out?

(hint: check your pocket)

Topic: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. - page 50. (Read 408494 times)