Topic: My fears about forum trust system. (Read 460 times)

While you're right, technically the trust system has been somewhat moderated in the past, where theymos deemed necessary. Usually, with accounts abusing it, by leaving like a million different feedbacks etc. Other than that, you're right.

Despite what others have said about it not counting for much in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't take that into consideration, since it's your personal trust list. By putting someone in your trust list, you see their trust ratings in the trusted section, and if they're particularly active in the marketplace, they should be leaving quite a bit of them. Which directly benefits you as a warning.

Although, if you were to ever rise through the ranks yourself, then it will serve a purpose beyond your own personal reasons.

It happened either when I was a newbie or Jr member, 23rd July, 2021.
I believe he gave me the simplest explanation as a newbie who doesn't know the meaning of DT1 or DT2.

Agreed, I was just giving some gross numbers.

When did this happen? That system was abandoned more than 2 years before you joined Bitcointalk.

So meaning ThePharmacist don't really understand how DT system work, oh fuck.

lol

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It's always been that users can read/leave feedback at their discretion. Completely up to you whether you decide to frame DefaultTrust as your god of reputation, if you bend over for theymos or if you investigate individual feedback.

If you're the type of person to simply look at a bunch of numbers and be satisfied, then there are plenty of prime candidates out there. Positive or negative have varying definitions to all users - if you have to miss out interacting with those who disregard the nuance, then it's not much of a loss.

The trust system on this forum is not that much reliable. I personally have a negative trust score for just speaking out about a scam I was victim of, yet nobody has ever lost money with me. Nobody knows why people are at risk of losing money with me according to my trust score. On the contrary, I got abused organising a giveaway, kept my word, and yet got a negative feedback for it. The person who abused my giveaway, with proof, didn't get any negative trust score (@examplens). I caught that guy in a big lie yet people here defend him, because they're all part of the same group.

Scams get promoted no problem, every now and then. The last one is Bitlucy. The promoter of that scam, Royse777, has a positive trust score, because "He just didn't pay attention". Most people here will assure you he has nothing to do with it, yet the evidence is overwhelming. Not to forget that the trust score is supposed to do with the risk of trade associated with that person, not if it was intentional or not (although in this case it most certainly was). This had some but little effect on Royse777 account. And then this scam gets forgotten and there we go to the next one.

It is rather the reputation of this forum that has been created by the founder of Bitcoin that has now been sabotaged by a bunch of evil people promoting scams, and it would be very difficult to change since they are the larger group on this forum and some of them have a lot of accounts.

I'd estimate 99% of accounts here have a price set on them. If they were to be trusted in a sum of money that is larger than the promotion money they get to promote their scam organisations, they'd scam the person who trusted them. That might or might not affect their trust a little, but it wouldn't matter then. Of course this is something I would never do since I know there is a God and there would be a price to pay if I would steal someone.

LoyceV as an example would have a large price for his account so he could be trusted to some extent. Others a bit less. The question is how much do you value their accounts. Go take a look on the signature campaigns and see how much they get. I wouldn't advise anyone to go beyond 200-300 dollars on average, and that is already too high and a bit more risky.

So it's better to suggest to Loyce.club which I already did.

See theymos' semi-mysterious algorithy

It's a bug on BPIP: newer Trust lists don't get updated. I guess it's too much work to fix, so it never happened.

I am not sure what's wrong with BPIP.org but you may check Loyce.club which I always use, Here is the lastest one https://loyce.club/trust/2022-06-25_Sat_05.09h/3461867.html

in fact, this does not change anything concerning LoyceV DT power. You are not DT1 or even DT2, so adding someone to your trust list doesn't change many things.

btw. are you sure you have edited your trust list correctly? Judging by BPIP from your profile, you still only have the default list "Not available in the latest file." https://bpip.org/Profile?id=3461867

I added you to my trust list a few weeks ago. But, You are a DT1 member already. Does it make any change on it? I mean, What if you get more votes from members? I guess there are some changes in rank?

Correct. See DefaultTrust changes.

I know none of the people who included (or excluded) me personally.

You may want to rephrase this.

So, Merit count matters (For Voters) when it comes to DT1 Selection? I didn't see the official election yet. How to vote? Add to my trust List = Vote? Do you believe someone will add me to their list if they don't know me personally? I feel like no Because I am not a veteran member like you  

Well, not directly. But with 10+ earned Merit, you can have a vote, and with 250+ earned Merit, you can have a big vote for DT1.
If you use the Trust system correctly, eventually someone will include you and your feedback becomes more meaningful to others.

Thanks for pointing my attention to this thread. I will go through it and see people's opinions.

That's what really happens. Some people will get a loan from Darkstar and repay in order to have a positive feedback from him. Though in most cases I have seen him place a neutral feedback instead.
What I really missed is the early days of the forum where the weight of trust is determined by how much btc trade you were able to execute. Someone pointed it out in this thread.

I am honestly unaware of this. I didn't know that a fellow without a feedback from DT1 or DT2 can have a stake in the trust system. Now I know, I'm gonna arrange my trust list.

I haven't seen it happen, was just thinking aloud and being concerned. Someone has already noted that something similar happend but theymos was able to handle it.

Same was my thought but a thread by Ratimov was an eye opener to me. That thread left me in awe for some time. But I have a strong believe that Ratimov was right because 85% of that farm doesn't exist in this forum today.
Exposing RainbowKun and His Large Alts Army. Big farm 60+ Accs !!!

ok, that might be a good signal but has not "having many successful trades" also proved in part to be unreliable and prone to manipulation?
A few dollars trades, or taking short and small loans just for the sake of gaining positive trust.

a closed system is almost being created, where some novices can gain trust very hard and slowly.

Actually, there is! You can change the Trust depth in Trust settings. But be aware this has large recursive implications and depth 4 will probably give a timeout on the Trust settings page.


A quality poster has more to lose than a spammer. That's why I trust a quality poster more.

Prove it, and theymos can manually blacklist them from voting for DT1. See this example.

The case of EZ0010 could be anyone else, but not everyone would return that money. The EZ0010 account was a newbie account with few posts, I believe there was no sentimental attachment to the account for him to want to keep it. What EZ0010 did was noble and he was rewarded for his honesty. 
There is nothing mysterious about the trust system. A spammer can be given a neutral trust with reference to his post spamming. I have seen accounts with neutral trust by Actmyname with reference of being part of a spammer list. It’s not a red tag, a negative tag in such situations would be harsh and will be abuse of the trust system. The person may choose to create a thread on reputation to drag the case.

There's no reason to give positive feedback to good person, skillful user, scam buster, spam buster etc since all of them has no relation with money related. Positive feedback is used if you're can be trusted because you have made several trade with huge amount and foremost the user send first or didn't using any escrow, this will help other users who want to trade with the users that have positive feedback will know if he's can be trusted, but not 100%.

I've pointed this feedback on LoyceV thread, you can read it below.


The 5 positive feedback reflect on EZ0010 account isn't really correct since it's too many, he only need 1 positive feedback left by theymos since he's returning back theymos (forum) money, not with the other 4 users.

When this is happen, I believe theymos will take care with this case since it's already too big and would messed up the current trust system.

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Have anyone forget the case by this user elmanchez where he get TMAN's positive feedback since he design everyone for free? after that, he continue to farm more positive feedback and act like an innocent. Many users thought he's a good user and can be trusted with many positive feedback, but the fact he's a loan defaulter elmanchez exit scam, loan default