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Topic: NA - page 114. (Read 893602 times)

legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
September 07, 2015, 06:42:21 AM
Bram first you think it is stupid bol does not accept NLG and now there is a small chance they might accept it and you think they are to big for NLG.  Huh

He bought cryptocircus for his NLG and that is imploding at the moment, that is why he has negativ responds, i think. Or is influenced by trolls.

Graag positieve bijdrages, Bram en anders beter niet (af)reageren. Je laat je wel kennen zo.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
September 07, 2015, 06:24:58 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

Wait for Patrick or Buerra to respond. They can help you best with this, i think.

OK. I'll PM Buerra on the guldencoinforum.

Patrick is the expert on implementations etc., but they are working together at Nocks, so pm to one of them is sufficient, i assume.

is that site not to big for nlg? at this state of nlg?


Bram first you think it is stupid bol does not accept NLG and now there is a small chance they might accept it and you think they are to big for NLG.  Huh
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
September 07, 2015, 06:20:57 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

Wait for Patrick or Buerra to respond. They can help you best with this, i think.

OK. I'll PM Buerra on the guldencoinforum.

Patrick is the expert on implementations etc., but they are working together at Nocks, so pm to one of them is sufficient, i assume.

is that site not to big for nlg? at this state of nlg?
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
September 07, 2015, 06:13:12 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

Wait for Patrick or Buerra to respond. They can help you best with this, i think.

OK. I'll PM Buerra on the guldencoinforum.

Patrick is the expert on implementations etc., but they are working together at Nocks, so pm to one of them is sufficient, i assume.
hero member
Activity: 1132
Merit: 818
September 07, 2015, 06:05:42 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

Wait for Patrick or Buerra to respond. They can help you best with this, i think.

OK. I'll PM Buerra on the guldencoinforum.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
September 07, 2015, 06:02:08 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

Wait for Patrick or Buerra to respond. They can help you best with this, i think.

Would be great, Julian  Cool
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 250
September 07, 2015, 05:57:39 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.

That would be great! Or marktplaats.nl
hero member
Activity: 1132
Merit: 818
September 07, 2015, 05:36:36 AM
LTEX I know someone at Bol.com and I am willing to talk to him. I need more information tho about how to integrate NLG (and BTC of course, getting them to accept only NLG seems quite a long shot) with their current payment provider. If anyone can get in touch with me for more info I'll give it a shot. Please PM a 06-number or email-address so I can get in contact with someone.
member
Activity: 100
Merit: 10
September 07, 2015, 04:48:20 AM
Right, the electricity cost can make the difference here.
On the other side something isn't mentioned yet:
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
You have to expect a decreasing btc income over time.
"Estimated Next Difficulty:    59,756,916,129 (+4.91%)" means ~5% less btc and those diff changes happen how often a year?
Summarize that over a year to see how much hashrate you have to steady add to keep the btc income stable.
At the end it all depends on how cheap the electricity costs are and how fast you have to get additional equipment for the same amount of btc.

only my 2 sat
legendary
Activity: 1023
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
September 07, 2015, 04:41:43 AM
@George, for clarity, can you provide a detailed and descent overview of your exact calculations. This for sure will help things to move in the right way. Since we by now all know what the basic plan is, you might as well give us the exact calculations on which you base your theory?

Let me help you out here:

A. Total cost of hardware setup (4Th) (in BTC)
B. Expected lifespan of hardware in months
C. Total electricity costs per month (in BTC)
D. Expected average gross profit per month (in BTC) <- Best I have done on average last couple of months is 1.1BTC
E. Expected average nett cost of Scrypt rental for 100Mh per month (in BTC) <- Best average found last couple of months is 0.7BTC

If you fill out these figures from you plan, we van then do the math:

R=(Reserve for future costs) = 7.5BTC (from IPO) - (A)
W=(Total write-off per month) = (A) / (B)
TC=(Total cost of exploitation) = (W)+(C)
NP=(Nett profit) = (D) - (TC)
LOP (Loss or Profit) = (NP) - (E)

If (LOP) is a positive figure we're good to go, if not, we can try to lengthen the lifespan with the funds residing in (R). Lifespan would then become an estimated ((R) / (TC) *0.7)

Please let me know if I forgot something here...
sr. member
Activity: 303
Merit: 250
GoldReserve! Your Retirement Fund!
September 07, 2015, 04:14:07 AM

[/quote]

I have a magnetic engine in my boat, so I know what you mean  Wink

So If I get it right you have a nett profit (including energy, maintenance and write-off) of 0.04 btc / day? That would be 1.2BTC / month.
If by some miracle you manage to buy your SHA256 equipment for half my price, thus 4BTC, you still need to add (4 : 36) = 0.11BTC in write-off making the total gross profit 1.31 / month. Then we have to add electricity, say 0.3 BTC / month totaling to a gross profit of 1.61 BTC / month on 4Th. That's an average profit of 0.4 BTC per TH / month.

Would you mind telling me which pool you use?  Grin

Nicehash for 0.018 sounds nice indeed, but my experience with them is that the low contracts somehow never become available, resulting in higher mining cost all the time. MRR is by far the most reliable and stable regarding price and profit.
[/quote]

You just forget the obvious, which of course never mentioned here. If you are using "free electricity" then he does not have to afraid of the ROI part...just my 2cents...
legendary
Activity: 1023
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
September 07, 2015, 02:16:26 AM
Forget about "perpetuum mobile's", magnetic engines is what is hot  Grin

But seriously, numbers are similar to some degree, yet with a huge detail overlooked by many thus far.

Around 4 TH/s, as proposed, yields around 0.04 BTC daily.
Yet, as this part seems overlooked quite frueqently, the SHA256 part includes electricity, maintenance, replacements, etc.

Meaning, 4 TH/s yielding around 0.04 BTC daily, this yielding is a net yielding. Give or take a few on luck and diminishing of performance due time, one could state average yielding would closely be more like 0.035 ~ 0.03 on overall.



These are my statistics:
Since I had notified (https://community.guldencoin.com/t/community-mining-ipo-switching-gears-session/1150/13), I have been testing what I notified. Which, sinds then, is nearly over a month.
On average, I have been testing with 2 TH/s. Over a time period of nearly a full month, this averaged around ~0.018 daily net profits with luck hovering around 95 ~ 96% on overal during that month.



Regarding empowering the SHA256 part towards the Scrypt part, there are quite some variances depending on networks chosen, either be them public or private.
You gave MRR as an example, averaging 0.022 per 100 MH/s. Nicehash could go for 0.018 whilst betarigs could go for 0.03, and private networks vary hugely between them (Netherlands for example is pricey as hell, versus Venezuela being a mere paradise).

Regarding the 'left overs' from the surplus generated by the SHA256 part, they will be used to put back into the system. I.e, will be used to expand the system to keep up with votality on hashrates and difficulty, in order to keep the Scrypt hash running.


I have a magnetic engine in my boat, so I know what you mean  Wink

So If I get it right you have a nett profit (including energy, maintenance and write-off) of 0.04 btc / day? That would be 1.2BTC / month.
If by some miracle you manage to buy your SHA256 equipment for half my price, thus 4BTC, you still need to add (4 : 36) = 0.11BTC in write-off making the total gross profit 1.31 / month. Then we have to add electricity, say 0.3 BTC / month totaling to a gross profit of 1.61 BTC / month on 4Th. That's an average profit of 0.4 BTC per TH / month.

Would you mind telling me which pool you use?  Grin

Nicehash for 0.018 sounds nice indeed, but my experience with them is that the low contracts somehow never become available, resulting in higher mining cost all the time. MRR is by far the most reliable and stable regarding price and profit.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
September 07, 2015, 01:57:40 AM
We are busy working through the bug fixes to be released for 1.5.1, but we also adding in a new project to be released at the same time. More details on this later.

Thanks for this update Waterloo! Curious what the new project will be  Smiley

It's about building value going forward, traders who store for future halvings will be shaken out the market providing even more stability. Guldencoin price needs to reflect value and not speculative froth. We are very pleased with how things have gone and excited about bringing more features to the table.
sr. member
Activity: 458
Merit: 500
September 06, 2015, 11:55:47 PM
2.5 million was put back on bittrex, unfortunately the altcoin market and even guldencoin is still dominated by traders wanting to make btc. Keep those buy orders real low so these guys don't make profits off you. Price isn't the concern for guldencoin at this early stage.
sr. member
Activity: 332
Merit: 250
September 06, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
I think George had made some miscalculations on his part or for short term it works as he planned maybe. But in the longterm it will defenitivly not as you calculate, LTEX. Write-off of the miners must be included ofcourse and George wanted to invest in new BTC mining also to feed the scryptmining, as I understood. Maybe George can explain with other calculations, that he plans otherwise. Good post LTEX. No offence George, but I think LTEX is right on this, that in the longterm it can't work. But prove us wrong. Smiley


No offence taken  Grin




{snip}
That makes no sense to me:
The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even, after which it is already close to obsolete, so its basically just an inefficient way of renting with more variables that can go wrong may as well rent directly.
{snip}


Thnx for your extensive answer.

1. The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even

Depends on power costs also I guess
.

2. What I personally would like to see is some basic sums

I would like to see these too. @George

3. I was replying to SuicidalTendencies

My mistake.

---




Forgot to mention it in my previous reply regarding;

This very much depends on the chipset type and electricity costs.

Using a setup derived from for example Antminers U3, a break even point would never ever be reached.
Using a setup derived from fro example Antminers S5, a break even point would be reached within 160 ~180 days.

Ok, I'm taking this serious, so here is a calculation based upon my own real live experience:

Given:

I bought 3 Spondoolies SP20 miners a while ago. The total investment was about 8 BTC including power supplies (a little bit more then the 7.5BTC in this project)
They run pretty smooth @ 4.3Th (a little bit more then the 4Th proposed in this project)
As the Spondoolies machines are known to be the best manufactured ones in the world, they would probably last 3 years
They operate @ about € 125,- per month in power costs, lets turn that down to € 75 for arguments sake = 0.37BTC / month
We have to calculate replacement in 36 months, being (8BTC:36) = 0.22BTC / month
On average I get 1.1BTC / month mining @ Ghash.io
Renting 100Mh @ MiningRiggRentals.com costs on average 0.022BTC / Day = 0.66BTC / month

Asked:

1. ROI on miners in days (if only mining BTC)
2. ROI on miners in days (if mining BTC to buy Scrypt hashes)

Answer:

1:

Total operational costs: (Write-off miners=0.22 + Power=0.37) = 0.59 / month
Average income on Ghash.io = 1.1
Average nett profit = (1.1 - 0.59) = 0.51
ROI = 8 : 0.51 = 15.68 months = 470 days

2:

Total operational costs: (Write-off miners=0.22 + Power=0.37 + MRR=0.66 ) = 1.25 / month
Average income on Ghash.io = 1.1
Average nett loss = (1.1 - 1.25) = 0.15
ROI = 8 : -0.15 = IMPOSSIBLE!

Now there are obviously variables that can be altered here, like lower power costs and longer lifetime of the miners. But then still, it is a big IF! It's like tying to ride an electrical bike forever by feeding the battery with a dynamo on the wheels, that would be called a "perpetuum mobile" and those do not exist as you can read here: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetuum_mobile

Again, I'm looking at this from my point of view. It might be possible George has alternative ways that make the figures turn out better, but let's not forget things change rapidly in the crypto landscape, thus making hard promises like lifetime insurance is not something to take for granted!

I like to throw another phrase at you on this one (in dutch, sorry): "resultaten in de toekomst zijn geen garantie voor wat het verleden u wilt voorhouden"...

Forget about "perpetuum mobile's", magnetic engines is what is hot  Grin

But seriously, numbers are similar to some degree, yet with a huge detail overlooked by many thus far.

Around 4 TH/s, as proposed, yields around 0.04 BTC daily.
Yet, as this part seems overlooked quite frueqently, the SHA256 part includes electricity, maintenance, replacements, etc.

Meaning, 4 TH/s yielding around 0.04 BTC daily, this yielding is a net yielding. Give or take a few on luck and diminishing of performance due time, one could state average yielding would closely be more like 0.035 ~ 0.03 on overall.



These are my statistics:
Since I had notified (https://community.guldencoin.com/t/community-mining-ipo-switching-gears-session/1150/13), I have been testing what I notified. Which, sinds then, is nearly over a month.
On average, I have been testing with 2 TH/s. Over a time period of nearly a full month, this averaged around ~0.018 daily net profits with luck hovering around 95 ~ 96% on overal during that month.



Regarding empowering the SHA256 part towards the Scrypt part, there are quite some variances depending on networks chosen, either be them public or private.
You gave MRR as an example, averaging 0.022 per 100 MH/s. Nicehash could go for 0.018 whilst betarigs could go for 0.03, and private networks vary hugely between them (Netherlands for example is pricey as hell, versus Venezuela being a mere paradise).

Regarding the 'left overs' from the surplus generated by the SHA256 part, they will be used to put back into the system. I.e, will be used to expand the system to keep up with votality on hashrates and difficulty, in order to keep the Scrypt hash running.

legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
September 06, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
I think George had made some miscalculations on his part or for longer short term it works as he planned maybe. But in the longterm (years) it seems not, as you calculate, LTEX (unless new funding comes in, in time (that's not the deal yet for this 100 MH/s)). Write-off of the miners must be included ofcourse and George wanted to invest in new BTC mining also to feed the scryptmining + the existing btc-miners, as I understood. Maybe George can explain with other calculations. Good post LTEX. No offence George, but I think LTEX is right on this, that in the very longterm it can't work. But prove us wrong. Smiley

George, I think it is best that you can make also a calculation and put that one in the tread on: https://community.guldencoin.com/t/community-mining-ipo-follow-up-permanent-mining-initial-setup-session/1215/54

Edit: LTEX, I think the differnece is maybe that George holds more surplus on the btc part, because of the existing mining equipment already in place. Correct me if i am wrong, George. So longer riding on the battery via the dynamo. Not endless ofcourse, but for quite a while. Hope you explain this in a calculation, George.
legendary
Activity: 1023
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
September 06, 2015, 03:59:07 PM

{snip}
That makes no sense to me:
The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even, after which it is already close to obsolete, so its basically just an inefficient way of renting with more variables that can go wrong may as well rent directly.
{snip}


Thnx for your extensive answer.

1. The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even

Depends on power costs also I guess
.

2. What I personally would like to see is some basic sums

I would like to see these too. @George

3. I was replying to SuicidalTendencies

My mistake.

---




Forgot to mention it in my previous reply regarding;

This very much depends on the chipset type and electricity costs.

Using a setup derived from for example Antminers U3, a break even point would never ever be reached.
Using a setup derived from fro example Antminers S5, a break even point would be reached within 160 ~180 days.

Ok, I'm taking this serious, so here is a calculation based upon my own real live experience:

Given:

I bought 3 Spondoolies SP20 miners a while ago. The total investment was about 8 BTC including power supplies (a little bit more then the 7.5BTC in this project)
They run pretty smooth @ 4.3Th (a little bit more then the 4Th proposed in this project)
As the Spondoolies machines are known to be the best manufactured ones in the world, they would probably last 3 years
They operate @ about € 125,- per month in power costs, lets turn that down to € 75 for arguments sake = 0.37BTC / month
We have to calculate replacement in 36 months, being (8BTC:36) = 0.22BTC / month
On average I get 1.1BTC / month mining @ Ghash.io
Renting 100Mh @ MiningRiggRentals.com costs on average 0.022BTC / Day = 0.66BTC / month

Asked:

1. ROI on miners in days (if only mining BTC)
2. ROI on miners in days (if mining BTC to buy Scrypt hashes)

Answer:

1:

Total operational costs: (Write-off miners=0.22 + Power=0.37) = 0.59 / month
Average income on Ghash.io = 1.1
Average nett profit = (1.1 - 0.59) = 0.51
ROI = 8 : 0.51 = 15.68 months = 470 days

2:

Total operational costs: (Write-off miners=0.22 + Power=0.37 + MRR=0.66 ) = 1.25 / month
Average income on Ghash.io = 1.1
Average nett loss = (1.1 - 1.25) = 0.15
ROI = 8 : -0.15 = IMPOSSIBLE!

Now there are obviously variables that can be altered here, like lower power costs and longer lifetime of the miners. But then still, it is a big IF! It's like tying to ride an electrical bike forever by feeding the battery with a dynamo on the wheels, that would be called a "perpetuum mobile" and those do not exist as you can read here: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetuum_mobile

Again, I'm looking at this from my point of view. It might be possible George has alternative ways that make the figures turn out better, but let's not forget things change rapidly in the crypto landscape, thus making hard promises like lifetime insurance is not something to take for granted!

I like to throw another phrase at you on this one (in dutch, sorry): "resultaten in de toekomst zijn geen garantie voor wat het verleden u wilt voorhouden"...
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
September 06, 2015, 03:35:16 PM
We are busy working through the bug fixes to be released for 1.5.1, but we also adding in a new project to be released at the same time. More details on this later.

Thanks for this update Waterloo! Curious what the new project will be  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 332
Merit: 250
September 06, 2015, 03:05:55 PM

{snip}
That makes no sense to me:
The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even, after which it is already close to obsolete, so its basically just an inefficient way of renting with more variables that can go wrong may as well rent directly.
{snip}


Thnx for your extensive answer.

1. The average Bitcoin (SHA) miner takes probably 2 years to break even

Depends on power costs also I guess
.

2. What I personally would like to see is some basic sums

I would like to see these too. @George

3. I was replying to SuicidalTendencies

My mistake.

---




Forgot to mention it in my previous reply regarding;

This very much depends on the chipset type and electricity costs.

Using a setup derived from for example Antminers U3, a break even point would never ever be reached.
Using a setup derived from fro example Antminers S5, a break even point would be reached within 160 ~180 days.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
September 06, 2015, 02:35:41 PM
We are busy working through the bug fixes to be released for 1.5.1, but we also adding in a new project to be released at the same time. More details on this later.
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