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Topic: NA - page 434. (Read 893613 times)

legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 05:24:23 AM
I honestly think the next solution needs to be the solution.  Not a series of solutions until we get there.

The more changes we make, the more bloated the code becomes to keep track of the changes on the blockchain, and the bigger chance we have of breaking things.  Let the devs and the community come together and figure this out in a rational manner.  Hasty decisions kill coins.

-Fuse

The change of block reward depending on block time I would consider a bigger change but easier to implement.

Sell pressure on exchanges drops, price shoots up. Switching miners are unimpressed by your efforts (read: they still profit enough to keep doing the things they do).
member
Activity: 100
Merit: 10
September 28, 2014, 05:18:36 AM
I honestly think the next solution needs to be the solution.  Not a series of solutions until we get there.

The more changes we make, the more bloated the code becomes to keep track of the changes on the blockchain, and the bigger chance we have of breaking things.  Let the devs and the community come together and figure this out in a rational manner.  Hasty decisions kill coins.

-Fuse

The change of block reward depending on block time I would consider a bigger change but easier to implement. It could start hitting if the time falls below a certain level like 60% (1.5min instead the normal 2.5min), this way it allows smaller variations of hashrate before it kicks in.

The other part of changes I am thinking about is the modification of our DGW3, so that it is able to handle major changes in hashrate like we see them now and will have to expect them even more extrem. Let us develop it further, so it can cope with the problems of the Scrypt ASIC age.
I have looked at several diff adaption algorithm during the last days and still think DGW3 was a good choice.
What I had to realize is, they are all pre scrypt ASIC and none of them is able to handle spike like we see them well enough.
Looks like none expected hashpower like we see them today in the hands of only a few switching pools.
And from what I saw, all of them have what I call the "bad block" problem; none of them can handle a sharp drop of hashrate fast enough and steady miners are left with atleast 1 block with extrem long time to solve.
Think of it as a series of smaller patches to tune DGW3 and when it's done you can call it DGW4 if you want. Wink

And for those talking about 1 min block times: The original DGW3 is using a block time of 2.5 min too.
Shortening block times by a factor of 2.5 would only shorten the times for the bad blocks by the same factor. And on the side of the quick blocks we can easily run into much bigger problems.
We need to work on the problem itself, not make them look smaller.
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 03:05:09 AM
Also want to point something out, more and more people are starting to realize that unneeded tech coins aren't longterm, esp with Dogecoins rise recently. Guldencoin can shoot up over 10000 sat in a couple years time if the merchant adoption rate keeps going as it is.

Problem = users buy nlg, merchants dump nlg. Ideal would be if merchants keep there nlg to buy stuff somewhere else with nlg Smiley

In the early days of bitcoin there was a vivid discussion about a BTC economy, here on the forum. The idea was to have many varying things to be bought by BTC and no need to USD conversion was needed. The problem was spacial distance between the people supporting this idea. With NLG this would be less of a problem. I have thought about starting a discussion about this on the NLG forum, but haven't gotten to it yet.


Started the discussion on the NLG forum
https://forum.guldencoin.com/index.php?topic=564.0
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 02:58:40 AM
I agree about price formation, let the market handle it (if it needs to be lower, so be it). About the diff adjustment, I would prefer the tweaking in the diff change algo we set on to this week. If that worked with other coins, it will work with guldencoin. Making forks to the network will only increase the uncertainty about NLG and that will reflect onto the market (that is what we saw yesterday). In the mean time we need to work as hard as possible to get more merchants accepting NLG and continue with its promotion.

Are the settings to DGW3 not supporting 1 minute block times instead of the 2 and half minute block times for Guldencoin?

Settings can be changed (what's in a name), that was what I was hinting on. Maybe other settings would work better with NLG.
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
September 28, 2014, 02:45:36 AM
Let the price drop another 200 sat and we can see if clevermining still has major impact.

If the price go down to a the level we can start building again, for sure I still contribute.
If the price go down too much, let new people invest. That should be great! Build a strong community, one of the major goals.

With time we hit the road again , that time we are ready for sure!

Since I am a buyer and not a seller I don't mind the pricedrop too much. I do mind the reason it is happening though. I have no doubt this will get resolved by the DeVteam however.

I agree 100% that lower price will bring in new enthusiasts. Let's give them a warm welcome and show how positive this community is. What we can do now is show that this coin is happening by introducing new merchants and users.

To support that I will release a series of tools you all can use, ETA, this Wednesday...
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 02:39:48 AM
Also want to point something out, more and more people are starting to realize that unneeded tech coins aren't longterm, esp with Dogecoins rise recently. Guldencoin can shoot up over 10000 sat in a couple years time if the merchant adoption rate keeps going as it is.

Problem = users buy nlg, merchants dump nlg. Ideal would be if merchants keep there nlg to buy stuff somewhere else with nlg Smiley
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 100
September 28, 2014, 02:38:59 AM
Also want to point something out, more and more people are starting to realize that unneeded tech coins aren't longterm, esp with Dogecoins rise recently. Guldencoin can shoot up over 10000 sat in a couple years time if the merchant adoption rate keeps going as it is.
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 100
September 28, 2014, 02:29:18 AM
I agree about price formation, let the market handle it (if it needs to be lower, so be it). About the diff adjustment, I would prefer the tweaking in the diff change algo we set on to this week. If that worked with other coins, it will work with guldencoin. Making forks to the network will only increase the uncertainty about NLG and that will reflect onto the market (that is what we saw yesterday). In the mean time we need to work as hard as possible to get more merchants accepting NLG and continue with its promotion.

Are the settings to DGW3 not supporting 1 minute block times instead of the 2 and half minute block times for Guldencoin?
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 02:22:20 AM
Check the buy book vs sell book.

Almost 12 BTC to go to 0.00000333
And only 3.23 BTC to go to 0.00000725
sr. member
Activity: 435
Merit: 250
September 28, 2014, 02:21:37 AM
I has bougt over 500000 NLG price from 402 to 440 sat. I will dump it and still buy into.

Please sell now. I will buy all
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 02:20:36 AM
I agree about price formation, let the market handle it (if it needs to be lower, so be it). About the diff adjustment, I would prefer the tweaking in the diff change algo we set on to this week. If that worked with other coins, it will work with guldencoin. Making forks to the network will only increase the uncertainty about NLG and that will reflect onto the market (that is what we saw yesterday). In the mean time we need to work as hard as possible to get more merchants accepting NLG and continue with its promotion.
hero member
Activity: 638
Merit: 500
September 28, 2014, 02:14:47 AM
Big sell again. Seems multipools still love Guldencoin.
Think we see many more, hopefully also new, Guldencoin millionaires coming days...
legendary
Activity: 1025
Merit: 1001
September 28, 2014, 01:54:20 AM
I have another buy other @ 417, for almost 1million coins.

5.1258   4.9823   1194785.83818345 0.00000417
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 100
September 28, 2014, 01:47:06 AM
Don't worry too much about current price a lot of traders sold off to get into Doge, but I think that run is almost over but I see NLG had a lot of support at these prices, 7th highest traded coin on bittrex. Smiley
That is healthy!

On Cryptsy it would be 5th highest. Nothing to be concerned about here. Let the devs do there thing.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
September 27, 2014, 10:26:39 PM
Right now making the blockreward depending on the block times seems the best to keep the coins per time interval stable and not giving big hashpowers the advantage to make big numbers of coins in a short time and drop out until low diff gives them the change to do it again, over and over. This can be a short solution, but I am not sure if this a good solution on the long run.
So NLG might have to go through a few changes in the near future for the better on the times to come.

I honestly think the next solution needs to be the solution.  Not a series of solutions until we get there.

The more changes we make, the more bloated the code becomes to keep track of the changes on the blockchain, and the bigger chance we have of breaking things.  Let the devs and the community come together and figure this out in a rational manner.  Hasty decisions kill coins.

-Fuse
member
Activity: 100
Merit: 10
September 27, 2014, 09:50:53 PM
With the difference in hashrate between our normal miners and the power clever (or other multipools) can throw at NLG, not actual diff adjusting algo can keep up with this. It is too far out of control with too many asics on those pools. Look at the number of hashlets GAW is selling every day and you will get an idea of what we do have to expect in the future.

Don't get me wrong. I think clever is a nice pool if you don't want to steady keep track on the most profitable coins and want to make BTC anyway. Terk wants to make money for his pool (and himself) too. So I can't blame him. He tried to help while not hurting his profits too much.

Right now making the blockreward depending on the block times seems the best to keep the coins per time interval stable and not giving big hashpowers the advantage to make big numbers of coins in a short time and drop out until low diff gives them the change to do it again, over and over. This can be a short solution, but I am not sure if this a good solution on the long run.
So NLG might have to go through a few changes in the near future for the better on the times to come.

I was reading deeper into diff algos during the last couple of days and have some ideas. PMed /GeertJohan this night about something he said to get some more info. This should help me to figure out what might work to improve the diff adjustment for cases like this major imbalance between normal and peek hashrate. After I got a clearer picture I will discuss it with /GeertJohan.
It's not to keep it a secret, but to have a workable solution to present for public discussion instead of throwing around big ideas that will not work out in the end.
And min/max block times (as someone suggested before) will definitely be part of the discussion too.
F1k
member
Activity: 104
Merit: 10
Known to have a broken social filter. Patching.
September 27, 2014, 09:02:22 PM
I'm loving this low price.

Wanted to buy a crapton when nlg went below 2 eur / 1000 nlg on litebit, but suddenly no ideal. >.>

Please keep the price down a bit longer, I need that ideal working xD
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
September 27, 2014, 06:25:33 PM
Is there a way to put a time constraint on block finding i.e no block can be found within 1 minute of each other (blocks get rejected) and if more the x (will use 3 for this example) times usual time passes (7.5min) the difficulty starts lowering I'll add to that, make it drop  x% every minute past the 7.5min mark till the next block is found

I'm not a programmer so don't know if this is doable

or start lowering the block rewards now to a point where its not profitable for the multi pools, but that may have a scarcity effect that drives the price up were you end up back at square one
hero member
Activity: 637
Merit: 500
September 27, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
People who sold out below 600 really got caught out today. Sad
legendary
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
September 27, 2014, 04:23:24 PM
Can you extrapolate on what mining abuse means? The pools are getting to many coins and dumping? Or they can mine the blocks too easily?

One particular multipool, Clevermining, is hitting 10-20 low difficulty blocks in a row in the span of 20 seconds or so, and leaving us with a high difficulty block that is taking longer to crack by the legit NLG pools.  We crack the block an hour later, the difficulty drops back down, and Clevermining hits it again.  Clever doesn't pay out in NLG, so everything they mine is sold for BTC.  Being that they are mining 90% or more of the blocks right now, all those blocks are going to exchanges for a sale.

-Fuse

Clevermining with this type of business would of killed off 99% of the scrypt coins in this situation. Guldencoin is holding resilient with this abuse. At the end of the day Clevermining has no emotional attachment to NLG and is pure business. Whether he kills NLG or not is not his concern but it might end up that Doge and litecoin will be the only ones he will be able to mine.
With the above being said he did reduce the hash against the coin and I am sure he will do it again because if NLG fails due to his multipool it will also hurt his business. Right now there isn't many scrypt coins to mine that are doing well.


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