NA - page 435. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Jero

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Quote from: ny2cafuse on September 27, 2014, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: megashira1 on September 27, 2014, 03:04:00 PM

Can you extrapolate on what mining abuse means? The pools are getting to many coins and dumping? Or they can mine the blocks too easily?

One particular multipool, Clevermining, is hitting 10-20 low difficulty blocks in a row in the span of 20 seconds or so, and leaving us with a high difficulty block that is taking longer to crack by the legit NLG pools. We crack the block an hour later, the difficulty drops back down, and Clevermining hits it again. Clever doesn't pay out in NLG, so everything they mine is sold for BTC. Being that they are mining 90% or more of the blocks right now, all those blocks are going to exchanges for a sale.

-Fuse

Thnx! Good explanation. Hopefully also for megashire and deephouse...

Maybe they have experience/thoughts/solutions to share?

ny2cafuse

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Quote from: megashira1 on September 27, 2014, 03:04:00 PM

Can you extrapolate on what mining abuse means? The pools are getting to many coins and dumping? Or they can mine the blocks too easily?

One particular multipool, Clevermining, is hitting 10-20 low difficulty blocks in a row in the span of 20 seconds or so, and leaving us with a high difficulty block that is taking longer to crack by the legit NLG pools. We crack the block an hour later, the difficulty drops back down, and Clevermining hits it again. Clever doesn't pay out in NLG, so everything they mine is sold for BTC. Being that they are mining 90% or more of the blocks right now, all those blocks are going to exchanges for a sale.

-Fuse

megashira1

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Quote from: Jero on September 27, 2014, 03:01:31 PM

Quote from: deephouse on September 27, 2014, 02:50:47 PM

I am not following this thread but can't someone explain the reason for decline in prices. The dev ans cumminity were doing a good job. What happened recently.

After a hugh raise in price (from 100 sat to 2000 sat) Guldencoin was hit by multipool(s).
KGW was not robuust enough to protect Guldencoin from some kind of mining abuse.
Last thursday KGW was replaced (with hard fork) with DGW3.
But DGW3 seems not the solution for the mentioned mining abuse, or needs some adjustments before it works in the way we want.

In the meantime serveral forces, in the context of the price, are working:

- multipools dumping
- some people thinks a lower price is good and are dumping
- some people just wait for what will happen next
- some people are willing to buy but wait for the right moment
- etc etc

Well, for now, price down. Will stabilize after the weekend. In the meantime, devs working hard the find the best solution.

Can you extrapolate on what mining abuse means? The pools are getting to many coins and dumping? Or they can mine the blocks too easily?

Jero

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Activity: 638

Merit: 500

Quote from: deephouse on September 27, 2014, 02:50:47 PM

I am not following this thread but can't someone explain the reason for decline in prices. The dev ans cumminity were doing a good job. What happened recently.

After a hugh raise in price (from 100 sat to 2000 sat) Guldencoin was hit by multipool(s).
KGW was not robuust enough to protect Guldencoin from some kind of mining abuse.
Last thursday KGW was replaced (with hard fork) with DGW3.
But DGW3 seems not the solution for the mentioned mining abuse, or needs some adjustments before it works in the way we want.

In the meantime serveral forces, in the context of the price, are working:

- multipools dumping
- some people thinks a lower price is good and are dumping
- some people just wait for what will happen next
- some people are willing to buy but wait for the right moment
- etc etc

Well, for now, price down. Will stabilize after the weekend. In the meantime, devs working hard the find the best solution.

megashira1

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Quote from: deephouse on September 27, 2014, 02:50:47 PM

I am not following this thread but can't someone explain the reason for decline in prices. The dev ans cumminity were doing a good job. What happened recently.

I too dont understand whats going on.

ny2cafuse

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Quote from: deephouse on September 27, 2014, 02:50:47 PM

I am not following this thread but can't someone explain the reason for decline in prices. The dev ans cumminity were doing a good job. What happened recently.

Maybe you should follow the thread.

Long story short- DGW3 isn't 100% effective and the weak hands are freaking out.

-Fuse

deephouse

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I am not following this thread but can't someone explain the reason for decline in prices. The dev ans cumminity were doing a good job. What happened recently.

Jero

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Merit: 500

Quote from: Litesire on September 27, 2014, 02:21:20 PM

Let the price drop another 200 sat and we can see if clevermining still has major impact.

If the price go down to a the level we can start building again, for sure I still contribute.
If the price go down too much, let new people invest. That should be great! Build a strong community, one of the major goals.

With time we hit the road again , that time we are ready for sure!

strataghyst

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Quote from: /GeertJohan on September 27, 2014, 02:26:22 PM

Quote from: Litesire on September 27, 2014, 02:21:20 PM

Let the price drop another 200 sat and we can see if clevermining still has major impact.

Really, this is not a solution in any way.

I agree! but i do think a price drop will occur.

/GeertJohan

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Quote from: Litesire on September 27, 2014, 02:21:20 PM

Let the price drop another 200 sat and we can see if clevermining still has major impact.

Really, this is not a solution in any way.

Litesire

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Let the price drop another 200 sat and we can see if clevermining still has major impact.

strataghyst

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Activity: 393

Merit: 250

Quote from: ny2cafuse on September 27, 2014, 12:38:45 PM

Quote from: BioMike on September 27, 2014, 12:31:03 PM

Fuse, your forgetting the pump en dump schemes that could be included...!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM2SlekORo0

I'm off to my corner now to cry.

-Fuse

Don't cry every little thing is gonna be alright. Grin

Did the dev team contact the developers of DGW3 as I read somewhere a while ago that they helped implement with other coins.
Maybe they can help fine tuning it to 2.5 min blocks as it is designed for 1min blocks.

The solution that Geertjohan gives also works, does it require another hard fork? If so maybe a longer maturity time like casinocoin can also be included? I personally like that solution.

I would never ban IP's that just doesn't feel right.
You cannot really blame clevermining as they only use a little flaw in our algorithm.

lakala

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Excellent job folks!!

ny2cafuse

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Quote from: BioMike on September 27, 2014, 12:31:03 PM

Fuse, your forgetting the pump en dump schemes that could be included...!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM2SlekORo0

I'm off to my corner now to cry.

-Fuse

BioMike

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Quote from: ny2cafuse on September 27, 2014, 12:25:49 PM

Quote from: KenChanYu on September 27, 2014, 12:03:53 PM

I hate to point out the obvious but your solution is multi algo where you allow sha256,x11 and scrypt in one.

Thanks you and now I need to go sleep.

Oh, here we go...

And while we're at it, let's make it POS only. And implement an IPO and sell shares. Oh... and maybe we can tie it to a real commodity.... maybe waffles.

It's all so obvious now... I wish I thought of this earlier.

-Fuse

Fuse, your forgetting the pump en dump schemes that could be included...!!!

ny2cafuse

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HODL for life.

Quote from: KenChanYu on September 27, 2014, 12:03:53 PM

I hate to point out the obvious but your solution is multi algo where you allow sha256,x11 and scrypt in one.

Thanks you and now I need to go sleep.

Oh, here we go...

And while we're at it, let's make it POS only. And implement an IPO and sell shares. Oh... and maybe we can tie it to a real commodity.... maybe waffles.

It's all so obvious now... I wish I thought of this earlier.

-Fuse

WaterLooDown

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Quote from: BioMike on September 27, 2014, 11:55:30 AM

This issue also hit the exchanges apparently:

mcmont is a Bleutrade admin

Quote

mcmont @biomike We detected blocks out of sync on different ips. We prefer to pause for protection. It seems that problems are occurring in blockchain, the difficulty is not adjusting properly.
mcmont @biomike bittrex also blocked nlg: https://bittrex.com/status

Hey Bio,

NLG goes into a blocked status on bittrex only during block resolves over 1hr, they not actually blocking the coin but just that transfers will be delayed, it's unblocked(status) now again.

https://bittrex.com/status

KenChanYu

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I hate to point out the obvious but your solution is multi algo where you allow sha256,x11 and scrypt in one.

Thanks you and now I need to go sleep.

BioMike

legendary

Activity: 1658

Merit: 1001

This issue also hit the exchanges apparently:

mcmont is a Bleutrade admin

Quote

mcmont @biomike We detected blocks out of sync on different ips. We prefer to pause for protection. It seems that problems are occurring in blockchain, the difficulty is not adjusting properly.
mcmont @biomike bittrex also blocked nlg: https://bittrex.com/status

ny2cafuse

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Merit: 1002

HODL for life.

Quote from: /GeertJohan on September 27, 2014, 10:03:02 AM

Right so I agree that Terk should throw less GH/s at NLG. But I don't want to ban IP's. Besides that there are literally thousands of ways to work around IP bans. Especially when it's about profit.
I think the fix should be governed by the software itself. A consensus between all nodes.
There's not too much smart stuff you can do with the diff re-adjustment; in the end the problem simply is that a jump pool cannot be predicted and that the diff re-adjusts towards 2.5 minute blocktime. It's really hard to take 200 GH/s into account.

Fuse (and others) what do you think about the formula that the block reward is 1000/150* with a max of 1000 per 150 seconds?
This makes sure that jumping with large GH/s is not profitible, because there's a max of 1000 coins being released per 150 seconds..
So IF the diff is low, a 300GH/s cluster could only be used to generate a block of 900-1000 coins close to the 2.5 minute mark, this doesn't affect the difficulty because blocks are mined at the correct time..
I think this, combined with DGW3, will cause a more stable blockchain.

I still think the algo can be tweaked to do this as well. You can literally do a search for clevermining and find coins that went through the same thing we did. From just glancing at the search results, it appears DGW3 did it for some coins. I just need to track the ones that worked, and take a look at their readjustment values. I do think that we're jumping a little too high with the difficulty. We went from around 300 to over 700 yesterday in an instant. Maybe a difficulty increase / decrease limit of 20% would help even things out as well. I don't mind spikes up and down... but 100% spikes up are no bueno.

However, GJ, this would possibly work. In the end you want to cut the profit out from under the jumpers. Limiting the block value for fast blocks could do that, but that's a pretty big change to the coin. If we are talking changing block rewards, maybe we should just go the route of BTM. While I haven't done enough research on it, I could say that a 24 hour confirmation time would cripple the jumpers.

IDK... I'd like to see DGW3 work. And I think it can with a little tweaking. I just need to do some reading.

-Fuse

Topic: NA - page 435. (Read 893613 times)