Topic: NA - page 59. (Read 893613 times)

I don't lose credibility just because a troll that has produced nothing but unfounded accusations say so. Now where is that ignore button again?

1680Club
kwartjeterug
AUR

Did you use your expertise in Marketing - Organization and Management to make those projects an EPIC failure? 
Remember this day LTEX, it is the day you lost all credibility.

I don't know where people always get the impression that I want to take control or things of be the leader here? As far as I'm concerned I am nothing more than an active community member that sometimes stops and thinks for a while and raises serious and founded questions.

Also the ideas some here have that I'm in a fight with the dev team is totally unfunded. For the record I think we have to consider ourselves very lucky to have such an excellent team with MaNi, CED and Rijk. The absolute amazing work they deliver every time makes me proud to be part of this project. Technically I would chose them to be on my team any time!

The reason recent discussions got out of hand is due to the fact that I (and with me a lot of other members of this community) think there is more to this than just amazing and awesome technical development. We are all full of the fact that this coin is going to be great in the long term and that we are all investing in this long term prophecy.

To me, as a businessman and investor, I like to think beyond the awesomeness of todays amazing achievements. I foresee a great future for Gulden, but that also means I think about things like legal aspects of that growth and the implications certain developments like larger user base and the demand for official treaties that come once we reach that sudden growth.

This cals for insights that I sometimes miss in the actions that our Guldenteam takes. I never criticize them or in any way judge their characters. I do however, ask questions and suggest alternatives as talkpiece in constructive discussions. Last time that was made impossible once more by the fact the team refused to respond or engage in that discussion.

By the reactions of the developers like MaNi and CED I also sense they mistake my reserves towards the gulden team (the entire team, responsible for every aspect of actions taken) as an attack on the dev team (the team responsible for technical development of algo, wallets and apps). I also see some members here making that same misjudgment. I have absolutely nothing, repeat nothing against the way the dev team delivers right now. I do have questions for the decisions that are made on a more organizational scale.

That is why I try to involve the community here and on other forums in those discussions and hope that the Gulden team will do so as well.

Most of us are absolutely convinced that Gulden is going to become totally awesome and hell yeah, so do I! Lets use each others expertise to make it happen and not just sit back and wait for our, very capable, dev team do it for us!

My expertise is Marketing - Organization and Management and I'm here to serve!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auroracoin-empowering-financial-freedom-1044432

These are the names of the Auroracoin development team and Auroracoin foundation found on the AUR ANN.

Pétur Árnason (Skarfur) - Chairman of the Auraráð foundation (IS)

Hermann  Finnbjörnsson (apcoins) - Boardmember of the Auraráð foundation (IS)

Hlynur Þór Björnsson (dinobotta) - Boardmember of the Auraráð foundation (IS)

Craig Dellandrea (bimmerhead) - Community development (CA)

Martin Jansen (LTEX) - Marketing & PR (NL)

Jess Foddrill (ny2cafuse) - Developer (US)

Myckel Habets (biomike) - Developer (NL)

Lynn Miller (24kilo) - Developer (AU)

Tom Hendriks (thsminer) - Developer (NL)


I am not even taking the time to talk about the EFL foundation or the Bitcoin foundation in the Netherlands.
We all know it is a big mess and there is no development.
I am going to take it a little bit closer.

How is the development and progress of AUR?
Please tell me how being a foundation makes the coin so more better compared to NLG?
So take your time explaining about the edge the AUR foundation has got on NLG in regards to development.

I see the names LTEX, Biomike and thsminer listed on the team.
Well guys pretty funny story as LTEX is the one that is screaming loudest he wants NLG to be a foundation.
Biomike and thsminer as his underling follow him in his quest.
I would say there is a big conflict of interest here isn't there guys?
Also the names ny2cafuse and 24kilo sound very familiar to me within the Gulden history.
I am not going to talk about their role since ny2cafuse politely asked me to leave the Criptoe debacle out of this. 

LTEX being the head of Marketing & PR is doing an awesome job.
Just as awesome as his 1680club project and kwartjeterug for Gulden
Let's be honest 1680club, kwartjeterug and Marketing & PR for AUR are all an EPIC fail.
And now he is going to come with the magical GULDEX! 
I do not understand how people are actually listening to this guy.

Biomike as a member of the AUR dev team has also has done an excellent job right?
What did you guys do in all that time, as far as I know just coming up with a new wallet?


Now let's take a look at the development and Marketing & PR of NLG so far.
May I remind you that NLG does not even have a guy for Marketing & PR and is not a foundation!
https://timeline.gulden.com/    <--- Enough said, actions speak louder than words.


As far as you ask me the only reason these guys want a foundation, is that it gives them a better opportunity to take over NLG and get rid of the current devteam.
Yes I have said it, they tried it once with the Criptoe team to get rid of GJ and that failed and now they are trying it an other way.
Good luck guys,instead of causing drama with NLG invest the time in AUR and Guldex 

There are no "leaders", nor "dictators".

There is only a blockchain, which can either be followed, or not 

if only this team could be afforded the same.The team that imo is doing a lot right.

That's just all assumptions (both from my and your side)... and a discussion I don't feel like having (I didn't want discuss AUR matters here as it is off-topic). My experience so far is that the AUR foundation is not slowing development. I speak from a personal point of view. If team members say they are busy IRL, I don't question that. Everyone should do what they think is right. If spending more time with family, work or study results in lesser productivity in our team, well so be it. I don't feel like having a contest about which team is the most busiest IRL.

That's all I'm going to say about it.

You are stating that (the Aur team is busy IRL) is the reason for the slower development (and not the foundation) - however the NLG team is likely just as busy, so that statement can't possibly be true.
This of course does not mean that it is the foundation for sure, there could be many other reasons (A higher quality team, a more dedicated team, a more motivating environment, a better community, better leadership etc. etc.), but your reason for discounting the foundation as a possible factor is certainly incorrect as the NLG team is indeed very busy IRL as well.

I just mentioned how things run at AUR how I see it, by no means I wanted to compare it with NLG (I don't know how busy the NLG dev team is).

Yeah, I love the look of the new page that Rijk has done, excited for the future developments there.

Wow nice pic and good work!

And this is different from NLG how exactly?
Every one of the current NLG team members has full time jobs, In my personal capacity I co-run my own company where I work longer than normal work days, NLG development is squeezed into what little free time we have.

EFL wouldn't have gotten anywhere even without a foundation, so that is a bad excuse.

AUR has a foundation because the Icelandic people wanted a central body for the Icelandic media and government to contact, and to host the part of the premine, as its unknown creator wanted. Iceland also has strict currency laws, which needed to be sorted out. The Netherlands don't have them. We communicate with them about possible development decisions, and we want to have them make some, but if they don't decide anything the other non-foundation members have just as much to say about it. The slower pace of development is not due to the foundation, but many of the development members are often busy IRL (I am also busy with NLG, spreading my limited time between the two), and we had a legacy to handle, which has been a bit inconvenient. The things I'm currently developing for AUR can also be used for NLG, but for some things we have to reinvent the wheel as the code is not freely available (e.g. the seed node monitoring system).

Both AUR and EFL have foundations. Why not see which projects come out on top? Let Gulden remain the untamed beast while the other 2 projects run on structure.

LTEX is not my leader and don't pull AUR in this. It has NOTHING to do with it. Stop spreading FUD. The dev team is currently leading NLG, nobody else. We just want them to do a proper job and raising questions about issues we see and propose possible solutions.

There is 2 leaders . LTEX and RIJK .one will be a dictactor to the grp that does not agree. Like Ltex is ur your leader because of ur joint effort with aur. You also talk with Ltex more and his ideas will have more effect on you. It will be the same for the followers of Rijk.

Thank you for recognizing our concerns. Looking forward to the statement. I hope we can continue the discussion afterwards, when things remain not clear.

LTEX, I and a few others just want a civil discussion about things that worry us (and holds us back in doing things for NLG) and how the team would handle the obvious problems when they arise. The foundation was proposed as one of the many solutions, not THE solution. Yet, we only receive negative sounding comments from the dev team about how bad this one solution is.

If the dev team doesn't want this discussion, I'll get the hint (I don't speak for others). Just say it, then I know I have to obey the benevolent dictator.

I made it clear that it would be better to pack the organisation in a legal entity (whether that is a foundation, "vereniging" or "cooperatie" remains open for me) for various reasons. One thing, for example, I asked Rijk about is the taxes that he possibly has to pay over the pre-mine, due to the fact that it is in his possession (it is part of his wealth under the current construction). If he is not paying tax over it he is evading taxes, which is possible punishable by Dutch law. I have yet to hear about this from him. Other things happening in his personal environment (accidents, legal problems, financial problems, marriage/divorce, etc.) could also have consequences for the pre-mine.

What is done within the legal entity remains open for discussion for me, but as long one natural legal entity (currently Rijk) is the thing controlling NLG by law, NLG remains vulnerable. This is what worries me (and I guess also LTEX, who started this). From a development point of view this might not be a good decision (as MaNI and c_e_d claim, I'm not sure about that), but from a investing (not the speculation mentioned here often) point of view it would reduce uncertainties quite a bit.

And people mentioning the Bitcoin foundation... it wasn't initiated from the community. They were just some (shady) CEOs of Bitcoin companies that tried to influence Bitcoin through that structure.

With a foundation your ship would become a empty vessel very quickly and not worth saving but at least i wont be onboard anymore