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Topic: Nakamoto speaks on BitcoinXT (Read 2878 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 20, 2015, 11:26:18 AM
#46
That kind of manifesto-like tirade is uncharacteristic
of Satoshi's writing style, which features crisp
business-like sentences and somewhat idiosyncratic grammar.

Lol, if you say so. Roll Eyes

That's my strong impression.
You can study the corpus of Satoshi's original writing
to arrive at your own conclusion. Also I think there
is natural language processing software that can be used for analysis.

people say he had different ways of writing too. as in there were several people behind it.

but my point is no one knows, and will likely never know so better stop acting like we all know everything about satoshi.

it is his mail address, one that was not hacked, one that served to post the original WP, so whether or not he/they wrote this message, it is well articulated and coherent with this xt BS.

ps: funny that he did not worte in favor of xt tho Tongue
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
August 20, 2015, 10:56:22 AM
#45
That kind of manifesto-like tirade is uncharacteristic
of Satoshi's writing style, which features crisp
business-like sentences and somewhat idiosyncratic grammar.

Lol, if you say so. Roll Eyes

That's my strong impression.
You can study the corpus of Satoshi's original writing
to arrive at your own conclusion. Also I think there
is natural language processing software that can be used for analysis.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
August 20, 2015, 10:17:42 AM
#44
gees people still going on with this  Roll Eyes

hell i'm anti XT (read my previous posts), but this is 100% fake.

the fact that this email has been used a few times in the past, and some rounds trying to fake satoshi's sig (google it, which was spotted so they arent trying that one again) tis a dead giveaway tis fake.




legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 20, 2015, 10:09:41 AM
#43
That kind of manifesto-like tirade is uncharacteristic
of Satoshi's writing style, which features crisp
business-like sentences and somewhat idiosyncratic grammar.



Lol, if you say so. Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
August 20, 2015, 09:52:03 AM
#42
That kind of manifesto-like tirade is uncharacteristic
of Satoshi's writing style, which features crisp
business-like sentences and somewhat idiosyncratic grammar.

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
BTC > etc
August 20, 2015, 07:09:44 AM
#41
4) No, you should assume that e-mail was compromised too, until proven the contrary. That e-mail probably remained inactive for years. A lot of e-mail providers allow the re-use of addresses by other people when these addresses remain inactive after some time. Just because no one claimed to have "hacked" that account it doesn't mean that e-mail wasn't compromised.

Vistomail is paid mail
There is also the possibility that Satoshi stopped paying for it, the address got deactivated, and later on someone else snagged it
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
August 20, 2015, 05:19:50 AM
#40
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

1) Are you sure? He has a PGP key, it's here: https://bitcointalk.org/Satoshi_Nakamoto.asc
The good sense says he should sign that message, specially after the incident with the GMX e-mail.

Yes, I'm 100% sure he never signed any a) public communication or b) private communication that was made public by the recipient.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1010
Ad maiora!
August 19, 2015, 05:33:57 PM
#39
This XT debate is turning into a real schism. I'm reserving judgement until the actual truth comes out, and I'm finding all these new XT threads kinda hard to believe
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 19, 2015, 03:24:50 PM
#38
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

1) Are you sure? He has a PGP key, it's here: https://bitcointalk.org/Satoshi_Nakamoto.asc
The good sense says he should sign that message, specially after the incident with the GMX e-mail.

2 and 3) I agree, it's not a fake address.

4) No, you should assume that e-mail was compromised too, until proven the contrary. That e-mail probably remained inactive for years. A lot of e-mail providers allow the re-use of addresses by other people when these addresses remain inactive after some time. Just because no one claimed to have "hacked" that account it doesn't mean that e-mail wasn't compromised.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 511
August 19, 2015, 02:32:43 PM
#37
hum!!!
how to be certain who he was satoshi?Huh
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
August 19, 2015, 01:53:36 PM
#36
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

Thanks for clarifying things. The fact that such fork as XT could almost be accepted speaks much about current state of Bitcoin. This should never happen, and it's Bitcoin Foundation to blame most. They are so compromised that all important decisions are left to developers to make. This is not optimal, developers interests are not necessarily aligned with the interest of general Bitcoin community. Put your self in developers shoes, if some change would facilitate some new startup witch can make you a lot of money, you would be hard pressed to put community interests in front of your personal ones. There's also an issue that so few people would be able to push for such an important change. It's OK when the issue is technical, but when it's political like this one, consensus on the changes should demand far more individuals then handful of them.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
August 19, 2015, 11:43:07 AM
#35
Even if it was fake, that sounds exactly like what Satoshi would say. In any case, XT doesn't need this, XT by itself is proving a failed fork with a hidden agenda to kill any hopes of privacy for the end user, from what I've gathered reading the latest shenanigans.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
August 19, 2015, 11:34:41 AM
#34
EDIT: Also, (not sure but) I think Satoshi did sign messages when he exchanged mails with Hal.

There's no evidence whatsoever about that; if you have a quote, please link to it.
hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
August 19, 2015, 11:30:25 AM
#33
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

^^^ This.
Well said.
It doesn't matter if the message was signed or if it was Satoshi or not.
What matters is what was said, and to my eyes, it seems like it's the right thing.

EDIT: Also, (not sure but) I think Satoshi did sign messages when he exchanged mails with Hal.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
August 19, 2015, 10:44:12 AM
#32
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

I agree with everything, but one thing:
(1.) Satoshi never had the need to sign a message back in the days, but after his years of disappearance, people will only believe it is him, when he signs a message with his key. He should know that and he created that key for a reason. If he wants to stay anonymous and still wants to communicate with the Bitcoiners, there is no need to reactivate his old accounts, because a new account will be seen as legit as an unsigned message from a (probably) hacked email account. If you think, that he was only about content, then why should he reactivate his old account to sound more legit? If he wants to sound more legit (as the creator of Bitcoin), why  doesn't he simply sign his key to make it 100%?

I tell you why: Because he can't! Because he doesn't have the password! Because it was not Satoshi, who wrote that and the other messages after his evaporation.



why would he care about pgp-identifying himself to retards?

AGD
legendary
Activity: 2070
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
August 19, 2015, 09:59:27 AM
#31
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

I agree with everything, but one thing:
(1.) Satoshi never had the need to sign a message back in the days, but after his years of disappearance, people will only believe it is him, when he signs a message with his key. He should know that and he created that key for a reason. If he wants to stay anonymous and still wants to communicate with the Bitcoiners, there is no need to reactivate his old accounts, because a new account will be seen as legit as an unsigned message from a (probably) hacked email account. If you think, that he was only about content, then why should he reactivate his old account to sound more legit? If he wants to sound more legit (as the creator of Bitcoin), why  doesn't he simply sign his key to make it 100%?

I tell you why: Because he can't! Because he doesn't have the password! Because it was not Satoshi, who wrote that and the other messages after his evaporation.
sr. member
Activity: 381
Merit: 255
August 19, 2015, 07:59:37 AM
#30
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.

Well said! Could not have said it better myself, especially the last part.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
August 19, 2015, 07:38:44 AM
#29
Unsigned = Fake

1) Satoshi never cryptographically signed any communication.

2) satoshi (at) vistomail is NOT a fake address - in fact it is the email address from which Satoshi originally sent the Bitcoin Whitepaper

3) The email was not spoofed, it actually originated from vistomail's server. The email headers show the email originated from 190.97.163.93 and the SPF records show this as an authorised sender for the email.

4) there is no evidence whatsoever of satoshi (at) vistomail having been compromised (the compromised email was satoshin (at) gmx)

About 1): Hero/Legendary members in here should know that Satoshi never signed anything - obviously he did that in purpose, and the reason has to be that he wanted a) plausible deniability, b) a focus on the CONTENT of his messages and not on a "creator" who had the last word on anything.

Furthermore, the recent intervention by the "new Satoshi" on the mailing list is consistent with the writing style of the "old satoshi", and so is the content - therefore it is reasonably possible that the message is legit.

That said, I don't think it changes anything. Anybody with half a brain understands that XT is a shitcoin launched by two shady individuals with ties with gov agencies and dangerous agendas (blacklisting, anti-tor policies, "proof of passport" for miners, etc.), no need for Satoshi to realize that.
AGD
legendary
Activity: 2070
Merit: 1164
Keeper of the Private Key
August 19, 2015, 01:58:51 AM
#28
its fake dude if satoshi is still alive and make a return he wouldn't do it this way.  Also he would be smart to know that nobody is going to believe him without a signed key. 

No one has his public key... he has never signed anything!!! unless you know this guy, you will never ever get a provable signed msg from mr nakamoto

Not so sure about this, seems to me I've seen something signed. If he really never signed anything, it would be odd for him to start signing now.


lol

https://bitcointalk.org/Satoshi_Nakamoto.asc

User-ID:
Satoshi Nakamoto <[email protected]>
Validity:
from 2008-10-30 19:19 until forever
Certificate type:
1,024-bit DSA
Certificate usage:
Signing EMails and Files, Encrypting EMails and Files, Certifying other Certificates
Key-ID:
5EC948A1
Fingerprint:
DE4EFCA3E1AB9E41CE96CECB18C09E865EC948A1
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
August 19, 2015, 01:50:28 AM
#27
its fake dude if satoshi is still alive and make a return he wouldn't do it this way.  Also he would be smart to know that nobody is going to believe him without a signed key. 

No one has his public key... he has never signed anything!!! unless you know this guy, you will never ever get a provable signed msg from mr nakamoto

Not so sure about this, seems to me I've seen something signed. If he really never signed anything, it would be odd for him to start signing now.
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