📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 126.

CumpsD

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: smooth on November 22, 2013, 05:37:54 PM

We're already at the point where reliably spending the distributions involves prohibitive transaction fees. For someone with one seat the latest distribution is 0.00018967. The standard transaction fee is 0.0001 per KB and pulling the output of a transaction into a new one takes about 1/4 a KB. So spending the distributions will cost roughly 12%. Of course you can gamble on not including a fee and hope your transaction goes through, but that's not really a solution.

Something needs to be done, maybe just include a check box for people to voluntarily put their seats into probation status?

Doesnt the tx fee lower when it ages?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

We're already at the point where reliably spending the distributions involves prohibitive transaction fees. For someone with one seat the latest distribution is 0.00018967. The standard transaction fee is 0.0001 per KB and pulling the output of a transaction into a new one takes about 1/4 a KB. So spending the distributions will cost roughly 12%. Of course you can gamble on not including a fee and hope your transaction goes through, but that's not really a solution.

Something needs to be done, maybe just include a check box for people to voluntarily put their seats into probation status?

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Distribution 270968 is complete. nastyfans says thanks for the many donations!

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

1 poll closed

[member opinion] take over 2 TH/s TerraMiner for 30 BTC
no: 458 (6.3%)
yes: 6770 (93.7%)
abstain: 17772
RESULT: NASTY MINING TAKES OVER 2 TH/S TERRAMINER FOR 30 BTC

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Many great feedback!

Quote from: smooth on November 21, 2013, 05:49:54 AM

How about any unpaid distributions (just fully credited, but not yet paid, NOT partial weeks) associated with a seat are added to the sale price.

I would do it different. I would add existing donations to seller payment.

I really like the idea of piggy-backing donations on payments to sellers. This is a clever way of avoiding tx fees. If auction volume was high enough this could eliminate distributions completely. But right now I do not feel comfortable mixing auction transactions and donation distribution transactions.

Quote from: OgNasty on November 21, 2013, 03:05:52 AM

I'd rather see a system in place where the user could set a minimum payout threshold.

My problem with this idea is credited, but no yet paid, donations at seat sales.

Right now the distribution system is very simple. One time each week it uses policy formula to calculate seat price and creates transaction to send donations to seat owners.

Maybe I change it to a system that queues payments at any time and the queue is flushed one time per week. Then I think we could implement many interesting features to reduce tx fees and allow payment flexibility.

pyra-proxy

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

Quote from: nonnakip on November 21, 2013, 02:54:25 AM

Quote from: smooth on November 20, 2013, 08:31:58 PM

Maybe let people set their own payment schedule? There is already a mechanism to hold the donations for probation accounts. That could be extended to all accounts.

I like this idea. But it must be limited to choice. Maybe 1-week/2-week/4-week/8-week. Batch payments must happen to save tx fees.

Also realize that donation distributions do not care about auction. Who has the seat on the distribution gets all donations for that seat. If you use 8-week donation distribution and sell a seat 1 day before distribution all 8 week donations go to new owner. I will not implement logic so 7.2359 weeks donations go to old owner and 0.7641 weeks donations go to new owner. Such a feature introduces many complexity and corner cases. As example a seat changing owners many times within 1 week or old owners no longer members.

How about in addition to the 1 - 8 week options, have a pay out with next available distribution option, this should help alleviate the 8 week donations going to seat purchaser problem....?

Edit: And/Or an enable seat sell immediately or after the next distribution option when putting seats up for sale

CumpsD

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

The main concern is to keep them batched to avoid tx costs. Whatever system is used.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: nonnakip on November 21, 2013, 02:54:25 AM

Quote from: smooth on November 20, 2013, 08:31:58 PM

Maybe let people set their own payment schedule? There is already a mechanism to hold the donations for probation accounts. That could be extended to all accounts.

I like this idea. But it must be limited to choice. Maybe 1-week/2-week/4-week/8-week. Batch payments must happen to save tx fees.

Also realize that donation distributions do not care about auction. Who has the seat on the distribution gets all donations for that seat. If you use 8-week donation distribution and sell a seat 1 day before distribution all 8 week donations go to new owner. I will not implement logic so 7.2359 weeks donations go to old owner and 0.7641 weeks donations go to new owner. Such a feature introduces many complexity and corner cases. As example a seat changing owners many times within 1 week or old owners no longer members.

How about any unpaid distributions (just fully credited, but not yet paid, NOT partial weeks) associated with a seat are added to the sale price.

Example, you accept an offer to sell a seat for 0.05 but the seat has 0.001 of unpaid distributions from previous weeks. You have to pay 0.501 to buy the seat. The new owner inherits the 0.001 accrual so the net price paid is 0.05.

Quote from: OgNasty on November 21, 2013, 03:05:52 AM

I'd rather see a system in place where the user could set a minimum payout threshold.

Yes that seems simpler.

OgNasty

donator

Activity: 4760

Merit: 4323

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: nonnakip on November 21, 2013, 02:54:25 AM

Quote from: smooth on November 20, 2013, 08:31:58 PM

Maybe let people set their own payment schedule? There is already a mechanism to hold the donations for probation accounts. That could be extended to all accounts.

I like this idea. But it must be limited to choice. Maybe 1-week/2-week/4-week/8-week. Batch payments must happen to save tx fees.

Also realize that donation distributions do not care about auction. Who has the seat on the distribution gets all donations for that seat. If you use 8-week donation distribution and sell a seat 1 day before distribution all 8 week donations go to new owner. I will not implement logic so 7.2359 weeks donations go to old owner and 0.7641 weeks donations go to new owner. Such a feature introduces many complexity and corner cases. As example a seat changing owners many times within 1 week or old owners no longer members.

I'd rather see a system in place where the user could set a minimum payout threshold.

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Quote from: smooth on November 20, 2013, 08:31:58 PM

Maybe let people set their own payment schedule? There is already a mechanism to hold the donations for probation accounts. That could be extended to all accounts.

I like this idea. But it must be limited to choice. Maybe 1-week/2-week/4-week/8-week. Batch payments must happen to save tx fees.

Also realize that donation distributions do not care about auction. Who has the seat on the distribution gets all donations for that seat. If you use 8-week donation distribution and sell a seat 1 day before distribution all 8 week donations go to new owner. I will not implement logic so 7.2359 weeks donations go to old owner and 0.7641 weeks donations go to new owner. Such a feature introduces many complexity and corner cases. As example a seat changing owners many times within 1 week or old owners no longer members.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: kroneko on November 20, 2013, 08:29:11 PM

Quote from: plasticAiredale on November 20, 2013, 07:38:17 AM

If we switch to 50 or 75% won't that put the weekly seat distribution pretty close to the dust level (obviously depending on how many seats one owns)? If so maybe we should consider switching to a bi-weekly or more payout schedule.

Good point - if we move to a vote to raise the percentage and it's passed this should go up for a poll vote as well, if anything should save us some on the transaction fees.

Maybe let people set their own payment schedule? There is already a mechanism to hold the donations for probation accounts. That could be extended to all accounts.

kroneko

member

Activity: 140

Merit: 27

Quote from: plasticAiredale on November 20, 2013, 07:38:17 AM

If we switch to 50 or 75% won't that put the weekly seat distribution pretty close to the dust level (obviously depending on how many seats one owns)? If so maybe we should consider switching to a bi-weekly or more payout schedule.

Good point - if we move to a vote to raise the percentage and it's passed this should go up for a poll vote as well, if anything should save us some on the transaction fees.

Carnth

hero member

Activity: 634

Merit: 500

Quote from: nonnakip on November 20, 2013, 04:37:07 AM

This is only opinion poll.

I think a lot of people missed this. It is just an opinion pool. The results of this poll will not change anything. Although it will be a strong indicator of what Nasty Fans is likely to do.

plasticAiredale

full member

Activity: 207

Merit: 120

If we switch to 50 or 75% won't that put the weekly seat distribution pretty close to the dust level (obviously depending on how many seats one owns)? If so maybe we should consider switching to a bi-weekly or more payout schedule.

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Quote from: btcboston on November 19, 2013, 10:24:20 PM

Is it possible to change a vote once it has been registered?

Vote changing is not allowed.

Quote from: btcboston on November 19, 2013, 10:24:20 PM

I voted 50% but it is getting so few votes that I would prefer to move my vote to 25% since 25%/75% are both running very close in the results.

This is only opinion poll. If 25%/75% clearly lead and are so close that the 50%/100% votes could change 25%/75% outcome I will include 25% and 75% in fundraiser poll.

btcboston

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

Is it possible to change a vote once it has been registered? I voted 50% but it is getting so few votes that I would prefer to move my vote to 25% since 25%/75% are both running very close in the results.

kroneko

member

Activity: 140

Merit: 27

Voted my seats for 75%, and here's why - while paying off debt is a priority, I think it also speaks to long term viability of this operation, it's certainly ideal to get bigger payments now, but if we're reinvesting more over the long term it should help us in growing our operation and get us longer term sustainable profits. I think going with loans right now was exactly what was needed to position us for the next generation of ASICs, but putting ourselves in a position to not need loans (but still have it as a funding option) for the next generation should help all seat holders in the longer term.

OgNasty

donator

Activity: 4760

Merit: 4323

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Carnth on November 19, 2013, 06:49:55 PM

Quote from: CumpsD on November 19, 2013, 04:21:28 PM

Is a mail being sent out automatically when you are about to go on probation? If it isn't, that's a change I'd welcome

You may not have realized this, but "email address" is never asked when you signed up on NastyFans.

It's optional, but it is utilized.

Carnth

hero member

Activity: 634

Merit: 500

Quote from: CumpsD on November 19, 2013, 04:21:28 PM

Is a mail being sent out automatically when you are about to go on probation? If it isn't, that's a change I'd welcome

You may not have realized this, but "email address" is never asked when you signed up on Nasty Fans.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Saving is good to be nimble. In any business sometimes opportunities arise that don't allow enough time for fundraising. Savings isn't that useful to take advantage of BTC price increases or to support seat values for its own sake because members could do that on their own. I'd rather see money in excess of reasonable working capital needs be distributed. (We're a long way from that of course.)

Also, forgive me if this has already been brought up (the thread is pretty long and I only joined recently) but how about an option to reinvest distributions by automatically buying seats on the auction (check box to enable plus a maximum price per seat to be paid)? This would provide some better liquidity for the seats, since it presently isn't possible to have any kind of standing buy order (only sell orders).

Topic: 📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 126. (Read 958997 times)