Topic: Need more opinions about bestchange red trusts. (Read 951 times)

To be honest you are not missing much here. There have been multiple attempts by BestChange to either directly or indirectly ask users to change/remove their feedback. The whole premise of the thread is that it was created with a view to have all negative trust for BestChange removed. Though the OP claimed he was not an affiliate he evidently is a campaign participant - hence the conflict of interest here.

My negative feedback will remain. They might have a big band of users promoting their services via a signature campaign but that means nothing to me. I certainly do not trust them and will never use their services therefore cannot recommend them to anybody else. Their behaviour by sending semi-threatening PMs to users that left negative trust was low thing to do. As was them watching from the sidelines as another user was fighting their corner for them in a previous thread.

For those that removed negative trust or modified it from red to neutral - I understand and accept they have their reasons to do it therefore I have nothing further to comment on it as they have a right to do what they feel is the best course of action. I also have a right to do what I feel is the best course of action therefore my negative trust will remain. In future if there are no complaints against BestChange and if they add real solid terms and conditions along with a ownership/LLC details and provide real legal protection to users - then I might revisit the issue and revise my trust but for now I will not change or modify it.




This is my first and last reply to you.

I read your feedback and looked through some of your posts and cannot understand why you have not been tagged with red trust rather than the neutral you have received because of your trolling and highly suspicious conduct.

I am not sure what you game is here but I have added you to my IGNORE list and left appropriate feedback as you are clearly untrustworthy.

Another DT has remove the negative trust which is the right thing to do, DTs can put a trust(positive or negative) based on their opinion but since you are in the DT network that opinion is very important and could hurt the reputation of the account you are tagging, please consider all the evidences and explanation of the account you had tagged, remember that they are new here, trying to build their business so welcome them instead of being harsh to them. why I say so?


YOSHIE's feedback is like this :


Claiming that the exchanges are fraudulent is wrong, the way you think is different than what a business thinks, they act based on the evidence and abide the law, even if the exchange has a bad reputation but they are don't violate the law, business is still good with bestchange and the exchange.

Other DT members had already remove the negative trust because they are satisfied with the resolution, will you try to review the reply once again.

---

On JollyGood feedback

Shouldn't this one be remove already, BC has been consistently paying the campaign without delay.


Hilarious, home come this is a scammy behavior? you aren't using the trust system properly JollyGood

read again.

Just because they are not actively replying every post, you think they are scam, you can't make this reasoning in the court.
Please stop ruining people's business, I admire you but this one is too much which is not right anymore.

I have been re-reading all these threads and its a time sink that I'm not willing to continue on right now.

How long did it take for the victim to receive his funds back?

And how long has the red been up?

Sorry I just don't feel this needs to be rushed as I don't seem to remember the victim quandary being rushed by bestchange.

As a Matter of fact I believe the victim would have never been made whole if it were not for the scam thread.

I'll get back to finish my reading when I have the spare time and think I may change to neutral but no promises and if I don't post back here in a week or change my trust then feel free to pm me a reminder.



Added: I haven't fully caught up in this thread yet.

Added: changing to neutral until I can finish reading and remembering what the hell was going on here. Getting a headache from trying to translate shit.

Added (2-26-2020: I don't trust them at all as they still have changelly listed even to this day.

Funny disclaimer they post when they know changelly violated their own terms. This is black and white not even debatable.


https://www.bestchange.com/monero-to-bitcoin.html


Obviously the above on their website is a complete lie.


But I am going to keep the trust as neutral as I don't have the time to deal with this shit.

Thank you for highlighting this issue, I thought I had left negative trust for user Changehero.io after the I read the issue regarding the $21,000 but in any case I just left appropriate feedback.

1. Trust ratings of Changehero.io, the ones who actually withheld the funds

A. Just one neutral from one DT member


B. Inactive flag with some Opposition from DT members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2589379

1. Trust of Bestchanger, accused of Listing Changehero and running a signature campaign without a trust escrow

A. A hail of negative and neutral feedbacks from DT members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450

B. Very active flag that is supported by a number of members
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=1265

I don't know if i am confusing anything but is this the right way to use the trust?
If Changehero was involved and are the ones who actually blocked a customer's funds then why are they not having any flags and negative trust?

If bestchange made all the best efforts to ensure changehero returned all the customer's funds in hope that they could preserve their reputations which unfortunately has remained negative through ratings then what makes us think that they will have anything to lose next time someone else money gets stuck in one of the exchanges listed on their site?

I have seen the likes of Cloudbet, fortunejack and other popular casino around the forum being complained about by clients time and time again about blocked funds which are sometimes released after "investigations" but i never see any flags left to the accounts if we are to go the bestchange scenario is the basis of creating and supporting flags

@ examplens - The link in the feedback goes straight to the thread in question, it is here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/doubt-the-possibility-of-a-scam-bestchange-bounty-and-signature-campaign-5217470

If you read through that thread the pattern that becomes clear is that one user in particular is coming across as vehemently supporting or backing either BestChange or the signature campaign and their Best_Change user was posting too. The more the conversation became intense between the user in particular and other members the more of a back seat the Best_Change user took. That sort of cowardice is not befitting of a business owner/operator. Furthermore, regardless of whether BestChange are working as a broker or not they should have real terms and conditions or their website along with legal statements about how/if members that click affiliaite websites via their website have protection in the event of scams or other problems.

In my view there is no need for me to deem BestChange as a reliable trustworthy entity. Going purely based on the way they conduct themselves I find them untrustworthy. If you or other users feel that there is no need for concern and find them trustworthy then I am very happy for that. If there are other users that agree with my interpretations or opinions then I am also happy for that too. We are talking about opinions and all opinions are subjective - my opinion has been stated in their feedback and I never expect anybody let alone everybody to agree with me, we are all entitled to our opinions.


Thank you friend, I appreciate the feedback. Your good work here in the forum has not gone unnoticed and many people appreciate what you do here too.

@JollyGood I really respect what are you doing on this forum, in most cases I agree with you but I'm not sure about this case.

Your negative feedback posted before "$21k accusation" says "BEWARE - this user has no history on the forum but created a signature bounty without escrow"
I don't think that running a signature campaign without escrow deserve the red tag. especially considering that they already paid out five consecutive weeks without any delay or excuses. I confirm that.
In your reference post, I find the only discussion about escrow and whether they have the money for such a campaign, and I think is not a proper reference.
Rigid attitude on the campaign/escrow issue leads to the wrong side. But still here is a lot of new campaign without escrow on a daily basis, just check the altcoin section.

Also, you say in feedback: "Furthermore, this user watched from the sidelines WITHOUT entering the conversation when users discussed bestchange. Instead this user sent PMs to its supporters rather than have an open transparent debate therefore not definitely not trustworthy."

Can you link me to this discussion? I know for BestChange ANN thread, but I don't see any constructive discuss there initiated by the dissatisfied user.


OP, I already said in my previous post on this topic about sending PM, it is not the right way. IDK why Bestchange do that, I want to believe they are new in the forum discussion and really wants to improve his trust here.


So, your opinion depends on the other 11 DT members decision? Isn't trust rating a personal opinion based on evidence and experience? You left both, negative and neutral obviously it seems that you are not sure what is appropriate.
When we talking about evidence, what kind of fraud proves your post in red tag reference? We talking here about BestChange business, not about services listed there.
among other things, their mediation helped to solve the incident with changehero.io. It is a plus, right? Users have someone trusted who will help them to solve "misunderstanding" with exchangers.

It is just my 2 cents in this case, though it can be argued that I'm not rational here because I am paid from Bestchange (even this post will be counted). I just want to be sure whom I promote wearing his signature.

JollyGood, YOSHIE
Thank you so much for replying here. It means a lot for me that you reacted over my pm. I wasn't intended to bother you.
Great sorry to others i have messaged if my message was annoying in any way.

From the biggenning, i didn't want to pm you all as i know most of you frequently read and reply in threads in this board but i was really confused with contradict opinions in this case and all the replies in this thread made by sers i used to trust in their opinions added more confusion in my head. Maybe this is why i followed the suggestion of LTU-btc to pm you who still keeping their feedbacks negative as a last try to understand the situation.
Usually, i have interest to check ambiguse details of the project i promote in my signature, and in this case the issue is about negative trust in project manager trust page made by users i used to trust in their opinions and their good willingness for the best of this community. This is why i insisted to get an answer and updated this thread frequently to get the answer instead of annoying you by pm. Yes i wear bestchange signature and get paid for every post i made but none the BM or the team behind asked me or paid me to post about this issue. BestChange representer seems careless about the issue and didn't even participate in this discussion and i can assure that i created this topic to answer questions wondering in my head and i mentioned that i will close it once get an answer.
I am not about to accuse anybody or make a drama debate.

I will keep this thread opened until tomorrow if someone wants to add any note then close it. Am satisfied with recent comments and understand why those users keep their feedbacks negative.
Great thanks to anyone who replied here.

Now you have to look at this one post, from the beginning I have said about BestChange.


The red paint I gave for BestChange based on: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.53670911

So, please don't send me PM again, I'm afraid I won't have time to read, thank you.

My negative feedback for BestChange is going to stay because it is very relevant.

If you read thought the tag properly you would know I did not leave negative trust because of the $21,000 scam, I left my negative feedback long before that accusation and my reasons are stated within the trust section: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1073450

I supported the flag regarding the $21,000 because it clearly stated in teh header of the flag what the accusation was and even though it has been withdrawn I absolutely believe anybody dealing with BestChange does stand a high risk of losing their money. Others can have their own views, I have my own.

And in the OP you stated you were not affiliated with BestChange and then you clarified later by saying you were not paid by them (alluding to starting the thread or trying to have negative trust removed) yet you are paid by them because are displaying their signature and promoting them and it calls your own character in to question. I really do not like it and do not appreciate users that maybe take it upon themselves to make requests or representations for those that pay for their signatures - that conflict of interest seriously damages credibility.

When BestChange send copy and pasted PMs to those that left negative trust asking it to be removed otherwise there was a threat made against us. I ignored that pathetic PM just like the other users that received it. In your case I am posting a reply here, please do not send me any more PMs - thank you.

I am not sure how good it is to send PM with a request to be revised red feedback. Because of some reason, people do not like unexpected PM's (unless you offer them a well-paid job  ). it can sometimes have a negative effect, especially if someone has already sent PM with the same request.
For example:

I guess you would get a better response to this topic if you put subject like: "abusing the trust system in bestchange red trusts case?"

I thought about to pm them about the situation but prefer to create this thread as i know they all read threads in Reputation board and will surely notice it.
I have just sent PMs to all of them redirecting them to this thread. I don't think this will encourage them to review their feedbacks because user "No Hate" confirmed thst he sent them messages and nothing has changed since that time .

Body of the PM :

Maybe you need to PM these users who haven't removed their negative feedbacks from Bestchange profile. As I understand, accusation against Bestchange already been resolved some time ago, so this situation looks strange. I doubt that they haven't noticed that or this thread. Maybe they think that Bestchange still can't be trusted after all...

I would keep updating this thread until to get an answer. It's hard to believe that none of users who left the feedback had noticed this thread or didn't check the updates in reference threads he uses for his {red} feedbacks .

I mentioned in op that i will close the topic once get a valid reason for the [permanent] red tags in bestchange profile. Honestly, i am really confused about the relyability of the trust system.
Any red tag should be justifief by a valid reference link. This is what i have noticed but some exceptions are really hard to understand.

I can understand this very well. If there is a valid argument of accusation, then it's surely reasonable to give a negative feedback. I think you made the right decision by changing the trust from negative to neutral after the case has been resolved.
Note that you are the only one who left a feedback for changehero, when other users just tag bestchange.
I still have hope that those DTs are just not aware by the case been resolved and it's just a matter of time. If it's not, then i wish not to see controversial feedbacks and i think they should explain why they keep it negative.

Funds were returned to original owner and I replaced my feedbacks with neutral ones. I don't consider this situation to be resolved though. Instead of giving their sincere excuses to customer for their 90 days long "investigation" they simply banned him. Excuses must be made if we take absence of any feedback into account. They were literally silent during all these 90 days, edited their own terms of usage and began to pretend that user was a kind of empty place for them. Such kind of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable.

It's better suit if you say "it's good to see Changehero has solved the issue." BestChange isn't directly involved here. In fact, BestChange had nothing to do if changehero wouldn't come with solution. But why no one talks about reputation of Changehero at all? I am sorry if I am missing anything.
Temporarily the neg was good, may be that's what forced to solve the issue. I don't know though but now that the case is closed and DT should remove the tag.

The case has been resolved days before creating this thread .

I would also like to add the recent comment from the admin [Theymos] concerning negative/positive feedbacks and creating Flags :

It's not just about the reputation of one single user, but more about the reputation of the trust system and the forum's reputation in general.

The thread was created 4 days ago, am I expecting instant reply?

Trust rating are important to a business since they like to have a good reputation in the forum they are using to promote their business, do you think they will continue promoting in this forum if the community is not fair? think about that for a second.

You are defending someone who are busy connecting accounts on bounty cheating but don't have the balls to correct their wrong judgement on a more serious matter, is that how DT members suppose to act now? if so, then this system is broken.

Expecting instant response isn't always fair. Its good to see that bestchange have solved their issue and these DT members negative tag plays the main role here. They can remove their negative trust anytime when they feel it necessary but if they didn't do that than maybe bestchange won't feel it necessary to solve the issue within short time. So i am gonna give a big amount of credit to all these DT members who took their action for a better solution.

Its your cheap thinking and its better not to apply on others. They are holding their positions with the acceptation of their judgement and without you majority number of people have trust on their judgement.