[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 193.

patmast3r

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Quote from: Sportfreund1488 on April 19, 2014, 08:09:02 AM

Hi @ all

Read this the last page of the threat: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6295105

Patmaster and UP want give the Sockpuppets on the refunding list 5 stakes. They can tell fairy tales and got it.
Do u think it´s fair. For u i will look at the Stakeholder List and talk to u if the guys become their stakes.
Please read the fairy tales of the guys and make a post what u think.

UP hasn't commented yet so It's only me that suggested 5 stakes (instead of freaking twenty I might add).
Plz don't all post there. That just bloats the thread and makes it harder to make out people that need attention. Thanks.

ShawnLeary

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Quote from: utopianfuture on April 19, 2014, 07:55:25 AM

Quote from: Spider on April 19, 2014, 07:08:25 AM

Allright, if you have better ideas, I'm all ears. I don't support nem charity at this point, just tried to give an example from the real life.

Why do we have to give the raised money to any foundation ? Your example is a perfect case that we should do charity in the most decentralized and direct manner.
NEM community should bring in cases as such and we will decide the direct delivery of the charity proceeds to the ones in needs. Perhaps put in a Youtube video afterward for a promotional purpose.

Just split the shares between the current stakeholders or keep for development/bounties, and get this show on the road Cheesy

NXT is currently having troubles with marketing, or rather, generating funds for marketing, so please don't underestimate what we will need in the future for proper promotion of NEM. The worst case scenario is we split hairs to make it the most egalitarian and then no one is wanting to part with their NEM for bounties.

Sportfreund1488

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

Hi @ all

Read this the last page of the threat: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6295105

Patmaster and UP want give the Sockpuppets on the refunding list 5 stakes. They can tell fairy tales and got it.
Do u think it´s fair. For u i will look at the Stakeholder List and talk to u if the guys become their stakes.
Please read the fairy tales of the guys and make a post what u think.

utopianfuture

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Internet of Value

Quote from: Spider on April 19, 2014, 07:08:25 AM

Allright, if you have better ideas, I'm all ears. I don't support nem charity at this point, just tried to give an example from the real life.

Why do we have to give the raised money to any foundation ? Your example is a perfect case that we should do charity in the most decentralized and direct manner.
NEM community should bring in cases as such and we will decide the direct delivery of the charity proceeds to the ones in needs. Perhaps put in a Youtube video afterward for a promotional purpose.

Starfleet.Intelligence

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Activity: 237

Merit: 100

Quote from: thiveshak on April 19, 2014, 07:22:48 AM

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 18, 2014, 09:52:52 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on April 18, 2014, 07:36:14 PM

Quote from: Simakki on April 18, 2014, 11:46:51 AM

Auction sounds like good opportunity test the valuation, though it might be could make it in sequels as UP has said. Are there any similar scenarios ever done before? How you can prevent people just bid without intention to buy ? Like some ahole just messin with auction

One way would be to set up an escrow. So people who bid would send their bid to an escrow. If they win, they get the NEM. If they, don't their money (minus a tx fee) would be returned.

It is a good idea. The way it could be done is that the escrow set up the address at a designated time and everyone sends a payment to that address would be considered a bid. The auction would last 24 hours since the designated time. 10 highest bis win 10 stakes and the rest will be returning to the senders. Who want to be the escrow ? I could pay a small payment for the service.

Sorry I have not yet finished the governance piece since I am in the middle of Smiley. Hopefully finish tomorrow. Anyway any preference for the first lot, charity at launch or logo+branding package ?

That would discourage a lot of people who wants to bid. Say, if a person bids @1 btc and sends 1 btc to escrow. Now if he want to increase his bid to 1.1, then has to send another 1.1 btc and then 1.2 btc.

Instead a reserve amount shall be sent to escrow and participate in the auction. If he is in top 10 and doesn't buy the stake, then his reserve will be forefeited.

I think auctioning is not a good thing:
Why not selling the stakes "considered for auction" at a fixed, moderate rate? So one could directly buy from devs. People in the waiting list who didnt get selected for stakes could be privillaged with a special offer as well. This would make distribution more fair IMO.

What we also dont want is big whales coming who soak up the market and just wait for profit without contributing to the development.

thiveshak

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Quote from: utopianfuture on April 18, 2014, 09:52:52 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on April 18, 2014, 07:36:14 PM

Quote from: Simakki on April 18, 2014, 11:46:51 AM

Auction sounds like good opportunity test the valuation, though it might be could make it in sequels as UP has said. Are there any similar scenarios ever done before? How you can prevent people just bid without intention to buy ? Like some ahole just messin with auction

One way would be to set up an escrow. So people who bid would send their bid to an escrow. If they win, they get the NEM. If they, don't their money (minus a tx fee) would be returned.

It is a good idea. The way it could be done is that the escrow set up the address at a designated time and everyone sends a payment to that address would be considered a bid. The auction would last 24 hours since the designated time. 10 highest bis win 10 stakes and the rest will be returning to the senders. Who want to be the escrow ? I could pay a small payment for the service.

Sorry I have not yet finished the governance piece since I am in the middle of Smiley. Hopefully finish tomorrow. Anyway any preference for the first lot, charity at launch or logo+branding package ?

That would discourage a lot of people who wants to bid. Say, if a person bids @1 btc and sends 1 btc to escrow. Now if he want to increase his bid to 1.1, then has to send another 1.1 btc and then 1.2 btc.

Instead a reserve amount shall be sent to escrow and participate in the auction. If he is in top 10 and doesn't buy the stake, then his reserve will be forefeited.

Spider

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Allright, if you have better ideas, I'm all ears. I don't support nem charity at this point, just tried to give an example from the real life.

dzarmush

legendary

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Quote from: Spider on April 19, 2014, 06:01:43 AM

For all of those that were screaming to give money to the charity. I have a charity case for you. And it's not some kind of bogus fundation that keeps 85% of the funds to themselves.

I was hoping that crypto community is cadger free. So sad I was wrong. So glad you're the only one I've seen yet.

But I agree that charity fundations are even worse. And pleging them Nem money instead of spending it on development is super stupid.

dzarmush

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Quote from: patmast3r on April 19, 2014, 04:02:11 AM

Quote from: dzarmush on April 18, 2014, 05:24:11 PM

Quote from: TwinWinNerD on April 18, 2014, 05:13:48 PM

Quote from: siva_gami1203 on April 18, 2014, 04:32:32 PM

Quote from: xtester on April 18, 2014, 04:26:40 PM

Quote from: siva_gami1203 on April 18, 2014, 04:24:18 PM

Quote from: xtester on April 18, 2014, 04:12:52 PM

Interesting times. Am very curious what price the stakes will reach at auction.

max 5 btc. beyond that there will not be a good return for those winning the bids

And you say that based on what?

5 btc would put NEM at 20000 BTCs which is roughly around $10M. My guess is NEM would have a market cap of 50 - 70M in the initial weeks. Wouldn't those bidding expect a return of 500%?

Well this is my opinion.

Even if someone was willing to pay 5 or 10 BTC per stake, the people selling their stake would much lower the price, because at over 2-3 BTC, many people would sell to realize their profit!

Well, at least we'll see how this distribution model works. Lots of people got their stakes for free. I got mine for 10 Nxt ) Even 1 btc will be a great return.

Also 10 Btc for 1M Nem is crazy. There are 4B coins which makes Nem at least 4 times cheaper than Nxt and 250K Nxt cost about 12.5 btc now. I can't imaging somebody buying 1M Nem even for 5 btc. Not before Nxt costs x10 from today price.

Even if there are more NEM than NXT 1 NEM can still be worth more than 1 NXT. You're conclusion is based on the fact that NEM is the same as NXT which is wrong.

I'll be glad to be wrong. After all I'll have much more Nem than I have Nxt.

jabo38

legendary

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mining is so 2012-2013

Quote from: patmast3r on April 19, 2014, 04:08:05 AM

On a side not please don't compare NAS to NEM. That's disrespectfull to the devs

NEM developers are working hard writing new code, working for a real future for a real product.

The (probably single) NAS developer was working hard at copy and paste. In fact the NAS developer was so good at copy and paste, he was able to implement the official "wesley" client for NXT on NAS before it made its official debut on NXT. Hahahaha.

Spider

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Activity: 171

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For all of those that were screaming to give money to the charity. I have a charity case for

you. And it's not some kind of bogus fundation that keeps 85% of the funds to themselves. It's a

case from real life. I'm gonna tell you about it and I'll keep it short. It happened in my

friend's family. A man, a woman and two daughters, one of them with authism so she needs

constant care. A man is working on the scrapeyard to support his family. A woman cannot work

because she has to take care of her (sick) daughter. One day the woman is waiting for her

husband to come back from work. Late in the evening the police come and tells that the man died

in horrible car accident. The woman stays without the support and she cannot work because she

have to take care of the house and the children. It's true - I was at the funeral. The

priest told to support this family so people gave the money directly to him. And he put the

money to his pocket. Bastard.

I declare that if you will make this one of the charity cases, I will support it with +20% up to

500 dollars which I will give DIRECTLY to this family.

jxmhqjg

full member

Activity: 175

Merit: 100

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 15, 2014, 10:29:56 PM

On a cheerful note. I made a poll in NEM forum http://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2184.msg2511#new

Check it out. Wonderful job of the team on making the forum. The question is NEM as a currency or NEM as a technology system ?

I think NEM as a currency(cryptocurrency) first, and then we need a technology system to support NEM.A network payment system;Create a decentralized global international remittance systems, it is cheaper than existing remittance systems, more convenient.

patmast3r

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Merit: 1001

Quote from: dzarmush on April 18, 2014, 08:46:41 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on April 18, 2014, 07:36:41 PM

Quote from: Simakki on April 18, 2014, 05:50:45 PM

I dont understand why people still compare NEM to the NXT, lead nowhere.

After auction there will be a realistic valuation, but this should be the market cap before launch. Im gonna hold majority of my NEM coins, because if everything goes like the devs have projected, NEM should be totally different than this older alts or btc and after 1-2 years we'll see how it has worked. It is little bit sad that so many of the guys just want to make a quick profit.

+1

-1

Nxt is the first 2nd gen coin. Every other coin will always be compared to Nxt: Nem, Nas, Nxtl, Qora, eMunie, Ethereum...

I don't want to talk smack about NXT but here are some things to consider:

NXT only is the first 2nd generation coins because it was the first to call itself that. You can look around the forum there are already anouncements for 4th gen coins which are pure bullshit.
It was always stated that the 2nd gen thing about NXT was transparent forging. I don't see that implemented and wich BCNext out of the picture do we know if it ever will be ?

Like I said, not hate for NXT just a pragmatic look at it.

On a side not please don't compare NAS to NEM. That's disrespectfull to the devs

ElitistCA

sr. member

Activity: 477

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

yes I like what they have done for NXT design, I would suggest going there, but i would also show those guys NEM wallets mock ups as inspiration, they can bring their own concepts too, but I would like to see what design branding they can come up based on our original design idea.

And I think that open bids would be more exciting...

EDIT: yeah, that idea with comparing price of NXT and NEM is just wrong, NXT is system with its unique past, distribution, community, image and all other stuff that makes its price, NEM will have everything unique too, you cant base price of one on price of other.

patmast3r

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Quote from: dzarmush on April 18, 2014, 05:24:11 PM

Quote from: TwinWinNerD on April 18, 2014, 05:13:48 PM

Quote from: siva_gami1203 on April 18, 2014, 04:32:32 PM

Quote from: xtester on April 18, 2014, 04:26:40 PM

Quote from: siva_gami1203 on April 18, 2014, 04:24:18 PM

Quote from: xtester on April 18, 2014, 04:12:52 PM

Interesting times. Am very curious what price the stakes will reach at auction.

max 5 btc. beyond that there will not be a good return for those winning the bids

And you say that based on what?

5 btc would put NEM at 20000 BTCs which is roughly around $10M. My guess is NEM would have a market cap of 50 - 70M in the initial weeks. Wouldn't those bidding expect a return of 500%?

Well this is my opinion.

Even if someone was willing to pay 5 or 10 BTC per stake, the people selling their stake would much lower the price, because at over 2-3 BTC, many people would sell to realize their profit!

Well, at least we'll see how this distribution model works. Lots of people got their stakes for free. I got mine for 10 Nxt ) Even 1 btc will be a great return.

Also 10 Btc for 1M Nem is crazy. There are 4B coins which makes Nem at least 4 times cheaper than Nxt and 250K Nxt cost about 12.5 btc now. I can't imaging somebody buying 1M Nem even for 5 btc. Not before Nxt costs x10 from today price.

Even if there are more NEM than NXT 1 NEM can still be worth more than 1 NXT. You're conclusion is based on the fact that NEM is the same as NXT which is wrong.

BitEugene

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Quote from: utopianfuture on April 18, 2014, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: Gaman on April 18, 2014, 10:01:50 PM

I think it should be an open bid and that a person can get all the stakes if he bids high enough

You can make 10 bids by sending in 10 separate payments. It shouldn't be difficult.

"I think it should be an open bid"

I agree. Why would we need blind auction. We need to sell those stakes as more expensive as possible. If someone has enough money to buy them all let him do it.

zsutbd

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Activity: 146

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Quote from: dzarmush on April 18, 2014, 08:46:41 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on April 18, 2014, 07:36:41 PM

Quote from: Simakki on April 18, 2014, 05:50:45 PM

I dont understand why people still compare NEM to the NXT, lead nowhere.

After auction there will be a realistic valuation, but this should be the market cap before launch. Im gonna hold majority of my NEM coins, because if everything goes like the devs have projected, NEM should be totally different than this older alts or btc and after 1-2 years we'll see how it has worked. It is little bit sad that so many of the guys just want to make a quick profit.

+1

-1

Nxt is the first 2nd gen coin. Every other coin will always be compared to Nxt: Nem, Nas, Nxtl, Qora, eMunie, Ethereum...

Nem has a great future in those 2nd gen coin:
- Brilliant dev team and great community.
- Impressing technical aspects
- Most fair distribution and best beginning of any coin.
....

Grin

Gxname

member

Activity: 119

Merit: 100

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 17, 2014, 05:38:43 AM

Quote from: Gxname on April 17, 2014, 04:53:06 AM

Quote from: qiqide on April 17, 2014, 04:47:47 AM

Now the problem is that my account was banned by BTT. Then How can I get my nem when nem launched? Huh

Some people know how to solve this problem? I also encountered difficulties. Thank you.

If you sent in a transaction from a certain account. You can show proof of owning that transaction and request to use a new account if your old account got banned or lost.

OK, I will put my bitcointalk account information and NXT transaction information sent to you to confirm,
I hope to receive your reply.thanks.

sampsonm

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on April 18, 2014, 07:36:14 PM

Quote from: Simakki on April 18, 2014, 11:46:51 AM

Auction sounds like good opportunity test the valuation, though it might be could make it in sequels as UP has said. Are there any similar scenarios ever done before? How you can prevent people just bid without intention to buy ? Like some ahole just messin with auction

One way would be to set up an escrow. So people who bid would send their bid to an escrow. If they win, they get the NEM. If they, don't their money (minus a tx fee) would be returned.

Escrow is a good idea. What about using a descending price auction (Dutch auction) to determine the ideal market price for NEM?

www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

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Internet of Value

Quote from: Gaman on April 18, 2014, 10:01:50 PM

I think it should be an open bid and that a person can get all the stakes if he bids high enough

You can make 10 bids by sending in 10 separate payments. It shouldn't be difficult.

Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 193. (Read 661498 times)