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Topic: ***NEM*** Should NEM organize the second stakeholder list auditing ? - page 2. (Read 2689 times)

hero member
Activity: 834
Merit: 524
Nxt NEM
can we just let this go please? its stirred up enough trouble as it is and will only lead to more which will do far more damage to nem than a few sock puppets slipping through. please just let it go. try and think of new ideas to promote nem instead of arguing over this.

The case is not so black & white...

Basically nobody can prevent the audit as the audits have been public.
Everyone, starting from John Smith from Albuquerque to Wu Hao from Lhasa, can do the audit by him/herself: the data is publicly available.

The audit would have some benefits. And if the audit is accomplished with discreet, it could be quite harmless - with those censored benefits.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
Heh, the sock puppets came out to vote "no" in force in the last 10 hours.

Why would sock puppets even care to vote now -- as at least 500 stakes have now moved to AE -- a decentralized system where developers can't stop anyone from selling them?   Two, there is not enough data. Nem only has  account activity / creation date and taint analysis for BTC only (not Nxt deposits).  Thi isn't enough for any kind of audit.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
Heh, the sock puppets came out to vote "no" in force in the last 10 hours.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
I think anyone that had puppets has already converted to Nemtokens on the Asset exchange or will pretty fast if a new audit is on the cards. It dosnt really matter if they sold or kept their tokens as they will redeem them for NEM simply be sending the token to the issuing address

Sounds good to me. Let them get out while NEM is cheap and let others come into the system instead.

Right now we are not issuing assets (temporarily) because someone scammed us out of 6 stakes.

A new audit has some pros and cons:

  + new sockpuppets may be found
  -
  - some may become angry like in the 1st audit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=496112.160 )
  - extra work ... but maybe it is now cheaper than earlier Smiley
  +
---------------
= I think that if a new audit can be done in the similar, "discreet" spirit like the 1st one, then ... why not.




Great idea, ARGpentem there's your game plan right there. Let the NEM community know what you guys find the audit.  In fact, do another audit after that one, just to be the safe side. Report back to this thread when you guys are finished!
hero member
Activity: 834
Merit: 524
Nxt NEM
I think anyone that had puppets has already converted to Nemtokens on the Asset exchange or will pretty fast if a new audit is on the cards. It dosnt really matter if they sold or kept their tokens as they will redeem them for NEM simply be sending the token to the issuing address

Sounds good to me. Let them get out while NEM is cheap and let others come into the system instead.

Right now we are not issuing assets (temporarily) because someone scammed us out of 6 stakes.

A new audit has some pros and cons:

  + new sockpuppets may be found
  -
  - some may become angry like in the 1st audit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=496112.160 )
  - extra work ... but maybe it is now cheaper than earlier Smiley
  +
---------------
= I think that if a new audit can be done in the similar, "discreet" spirit like the 1st one, then ... why not.

newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
What was final supposed to mean?

1. UP did an audit

2. A commitee did an audit

3. A public audit was done as well

*note* I got mine on the AE


This will harm NEM. Who started up this whole sockpuppet thing anyway.?
Isn't their many things that need to be done that we haven't done yet?

FUD trolls...CfA, ARG, etc. Obvious troll is obvious, etc.
newbie
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
What was final supposed to mean?

1. UP did an audit

2. A commitee did an audit

3. A public audit was done as well

*note* I got mine on the AE


This will harm NEM. Who started up this whole sockpuppet thing anyway.?
Isn't their many things that need to be done that we haven't done yet?
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
The vote has answered this. Call it off. Community has spoken.

as of right now, 20 people want a second audit, and 25 people don't want one. I don't think we can call it off yet.

ARGpentem will you be helping out with the audit if it happens, we need the community, dev and marketing team is quite busy.

Hi bro, why not ?

K OP, what's the plan?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
The vote has answered this. Call it off. Community has spoken.

as of right now, 20 people want a second audit, and 25 people don't want one. I don't think we can call it off yet.

ARGpentem will you be helping out with the audit if it happens, we need the community, dev and marketing team is quite busy.

Hi bro, why not ?
legendary
Activity: 1447
Merit: 1028
'A new Stakholder List doesent make sense,  everyday hoders changen.  The first distrubution was nice to know but know everybody can make a own picture.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Can you guys hurry up and release already. I want my stake to buy Qora while the price is low.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
My Head is a Ritz
The vote has answered this. Call it off. Community has spoken.

as of right now, 20 people want a second audit, and 25 people don't want one. I don't think we can call it off yet.

ARGpentem will you be helping out with the audit if it happens, we need the community, dev and marketing team is quite busy.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
i voted no with 10 of my puppets  Cheesy Cheesy great vote!

~CfA~


Only accounts with member status can vote.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 520
i voted no with 10 of my puppets  Cheesy Cheesy great vote!

~CfA~
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1020
expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()
there is no chance to manage a new audit in a appropriate way now. the sockpuppets have probably already sold the nemstake.
Or do you want to audit the nemstakes as well?

Face it. Its too late for changes now.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
You should have done before now it's too late
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
I am not Dorian Nakamoto.
I think anyone that had puppets has already converted to Nemtokens on the Asset exchange or will pretty fast if a new audit is on the cards. It dosnt really matter if they sold or kept their tokens as they will redeem them for NEM simply be sending the token to the issuing address

Sounds good to me. Let them get out while NEM is cheap and let others come into the system instead.

Right now we are not issuing assets (temporarily) because someone scammed us out of 6 stakes.
legendary
Activity: 1279
Merit: 1018
 I think anyone that had puppets has already converted to Nemtokens on the Asset exchange or will pretty fast if a new audit is on the cards. It dosnt really matter if they sold or kept their tokens as they will redeem them for NEM simply be sending the token to the issuing address
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
Quote from: nutildah link=topic=682860.msg7745665#msg7745665
If there was a way to inactivate these particular stakes I would do that.

No way to do that, since AE is completely decentralized, theres no "admin" to talk to about this matter

I thought about it and in the long run its most likely not a big deal. I do have to give it up to the guy (sorry I forgot his handle) who admitted what happened. He could have just said nothing but in this type of environment honesty is crucial. So, he has my respect for that.

But back to the original topic, I am a professional auditor and I think that there's no harm in conducting a second audit or an audit of the first audit, so long as there is the community willpower to make such a thing happen.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
I am not Dorian Nakamoto.
Here is a problem: It's impossible to catch all sock puppets just by activity or taint analysis. You can't even do taint analysis with Nxt investors as all accounts are connected closely via exchanges such as Bter and Dgex.  Plus it's really easy to fool the system by transferring BTC to an exchanges and back.

As for account activity, people can have more than one active account that they use to post.  



This.  This makes the whole issue irrelevant.  

As well there's no conclusive proof that inactive accounts are sockpuppets.  There's many people who lurk and read Bitcointalk but simply aren't interested in any discussion on here.  The "call for participation" wasn't intended literally, it was legal wording to get out of any financial liability for running a securities.   While someone might not be active on Bitcointalk - they may be active on other social media websites or be really effective in viral P2P advertising.

My point is that we have too many "group 3", retroactively taking away their stakes (these people waited half a year) means NEM is going to create a lot of enemies overnight and I think that's more FUD worthy than any sockmaster boogeymen.  We know in NODE's case that (we take away the bull$hit intuition examples), they only found an extremely small number (compared to 1000 stakeholders) of sockpuppets.  So I stand by my conclusion that taking away stakes in mass is just going to piss off people and they'll be NEMs' worst enemies and they'll talk away any subsequent interested people.



The original issue here was someone scammed Pat of 6 or 8 tokens but that has nothing to do with sockpuppets, that was some guy who was looking up names on the stakeholder list and creating a copy cat name which look the same.

Then the people photoshopping banned photos to get NEMstake.

You know NEM must be really promising if people are resorting to weird ways to get it.


 


We don't have to take their stakes away, but we should try to at least message them and give them a chance to respond. Like ask them if they are a sock puppet, if so, who's account (up to 2 accounts controlled by 1 person is okay in the rules). If there are no replies, then we can consider taking stakes away, or if we can find proof that a person has more than 2 accounts.
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