Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1412. (Read 2985787 times)

Well you even admitted yourself as being unprofessional and "shitty" on the NEM Forum, where all the "serious" discussion takes place. You also then claimed to not be a formal member of the team, but you are listed as a "Marketer/helper" on the OP, like it or not you are a representative of NEM, and some of the replies I have seen from you on forums if you were representing a business, you more than likely would no longer be employed by that business.

And let us not forget the biggest NEM unprofessional black eye of them all, UtopianFuture, but we have set a stage where we are trying to move beyond that, so in fact I should not be putting that into the equation admittedly, but you did request examples.

Kotycoon has been a huge contributor but we have seen multiple examples of mistake "posts" where apologies were warrented in other threads/forums.

And we have seen very Sullen responses at times from team members to questions. Trolls or TrollFudders should be responded to professionally or outright ignored.

Xtester has been the poster child for professionalism, and I would like a statement of intent from the representatives in this coin that they intend to conduct themselves more professionally in the future, as an investor that would give me much more confidence in this project.

Edit* "Only realistic dates are being given as estimates. So yes, march is realisitc. " December was once official and realistic launch date. What makes this date more realistic?

I won't quote anymore because the posts are getting extremely long.

But let me address your concerns about the estimated dates not being met for several times.

I understand that is frustrating and confusing. Everyone is excited about launch, and when the date comes that launch was targeted to happen and another delay hits... it's really frustrating for everyone.

The thing is, there is really nothing that can be done about this. Either the devs do not give any sort of estimate at all and force everyone to wait in the dark until the day of launch happens as a surprise, or they try and give estimates and risk potential community disappoint when those estimated targets are not hit.

Software development, especially of this nature, is extremely complex. The devs are trying to give as realistic of an estimate as possible, but I cannot convey enough how difficult it is to actually meet a target deadline when it comes to developing such complicated software. An unforeseen bug can cause serious delays, and that is nobody's fault. The devs are not robots; they will make mistakes. That is why the core of NEM must be tested carefully and thoroughly before launch. Launching with a critical bug in the core code could literally mean the end of NEM.

It is unrealistic to expect the devs to be able to say "we are launching on such and such date" and force them to adhere to that. Can we agree on that?

Basically it comes down to the fact that you can't make everyone happy. If no estimated target dates were ever set, people would complain that they are being left in the dark. If a date is set and missed, which is highly likely in software development, people will complain. There simply is no way to make every single person in the community happy when it comes to the launch date.

All that I can say is that it will happen when it happens. Right now, as far as I can tell, things are looking good with multisig and no critical bugs have been reported that I know of. So as of right now, at the very latest, a release by March seems likely. But again, I am no dev nor do I have any inside knowledge of how the beta testing is going so I am in no way a definitive source.

Only realistic dates are being given as estimates. So yes, march is realisitc.

What that has been done so far do you consider unprofessional ?

Is March a realistic launch date?

Will we see a more professional culture from those involved with NEM in the future?

Those are my current questions.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about many of the other people here who are advocating for an immediate launch.

But anyway, I understand that confidence is waning. It's just that, as I explained, there is literally nothing that can be done about it at this point. All I am trying to say is that if you try out the beta, I don't see why anyone should lose confidence in this project. I mean, you don't even have to try it out for yourself... just look at any of the screenshots of the client in action and you can see that everything is there and working and all that is left is a final bit of testing.

I can totally understand losing confidence if the devs were disappearing and not talking and there were no discernible updates being made to the codebase. But that's just not what is happening right now. So please, just try and look at this objectively and understand why there have been delays. Could things have been handled better with the claiming of stakes and such? Of course! But things happened. Nothing can be done about it now, but that does not undermine NEM in any way. The only thing that has hindered is people's ability to trade, which honestly there was no guarantee of in the first place.

I really don't mean for this to seem negative or condescending in any way. I really don't. I am just trying to explain how and why NEM is where it is right now and why everyone should still feel confident in NEM as a whole. I know many of you trade and I know it sucks that you can't trade right now, but I can assure you that it was not some intentional plot to prevent you all from trading during this extended delay period. It just happened to turn out this way. Launch is on the horizon, and then you can trade to your heart's content.

But anyway, again... I don't mean to convey any animosity in these posts. I am all about trying to promote a friendly community here. I want to try and answer questions as a fellow member of this movement and as a friend. The Internet can be such a nasty place. When everyone is anonymous, people forget how to have feelings and compassion for each other and it's one of the things I want to try and alleviate at least in this community. I'm not a core dev, or even anyone that important in NEM at all, but I'll try to answer any other questions you might have as best I can.

Coins come back, transaction is cancelled. On that it and a full consent of all parties who signs. Transaction can be cancelled depending on time. That who the initiator of the translation, it determines time. After this time transaction is cancelled if though one of all parties didn't sign.

There is one minus. If between people there is a dispute, or the conflict, because of one all can remain out-of-pocket. Therefore as in addition, it is necessary to make some functions that it was possible to carry out transaction on a majority of votes. From so community, and in the future the NEM fund, can get stuck because of someone. Well for example the person will gain the confidence, will become the signer, and will arrange diversions then not with signers. And you won't do anything with it. Therefore it is necessary to construct the tool between all signers on the basis of vote that there was an opportunity to exclude some signer who harms. And here already there will be a vote on the majority. But in vote some threshold of people that they took vote but not will be necessary so someone one took vote and all threw out from signers and then all coins tidied up to the hands. There has to be a threshold from 75% to 85% obligatory. Here personally now I give value to a threshold of 75%. That 7 or 8 people from 10 could take such vote, so to speak the minimum threshold for acceptance of results on an occasion deprive of someone a right to sign.

Developers need to study all these moments. After all in the sphere crypto and furthermore here decentralization, many unpleasant moments are possible and to us it is necessary to learn to expect them in advance.

Original here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10358423

"sit back and say things like LAUNCH RIGHT NOW because you have no understanding of the implications of doing so. You are very much entitled to your opinion"

You are putting words in my mouth, I never said anything of the sort. All I want is a REALISTIC timeline. As the last 4 or so time/target dates apparently were not. March was discussed here. Peoples stakes are literally being held hostage until launch.

Give us a realistic timeline and mean it and commit. That is all we are asking for. The last few target dates were not met. So I would hope at this point the knowledge gained from this would be enough to set a realistic timeline.

So is March the current Target Date developers? Yes or No? If so what timeline are we looking at? Indefinitely?

What more do you want? The devs and countless prominent members of the community have stated at least 100 times that they are doing everything they can to prepare for launch and that there have been issues holding it up. Initially, launch was going to happen without multisig. But, considering there were a large number of unclaimed stakes and other XEM that is going to have to be held in an account somewhere, multisig then became something that the devs and the overall community decided was necessary before launch could happen. So, development of multisig began. This, in turn, takes time to complete. Multisig ran into some issues, all of which have been highlighted here on these forums with absolute transparency. Now we have finally gotten to a state where beta testing of multisig can begin.

So again, what do you want? Do you want NEM to launch with potentially buggy multisig that could possibly result in a catastrophe related to the large amount of XEM that has to be held by the developers? What if there is a critical error in multisig that causes all these XEM to disappear? We absolutely *have* to test multisig thoroughly before launch can happen. This is just reality. If you cannot wait then I don't know what to tell you. Things don't just happen magically because you wish them to. Do you not think the devs would launch right away if it was in any way possible? It's just simply not feasible to launch right now, and that's all there is to it.

What I mean by "you are either a part of NEM or you aren't" is that if you are not able to see and accept these obvious facts that are right in front of you, then you obviously have no desire to even be a part of NEM in the first place and just want to dump your stake for BTC or some other alt. That's completely fine of course; it's a free market and you can do whatever you like. But that is literally the only possible reason you could have for wanting to rush launch right now. As an *actual* investor in NEM and part of the community, I in no way want them to launch right now before proper beta testing of multisig. It would open so many potential disasters that I don't know how anyone could advocate for it.

This is not some game or random, meaningless software we are talking about here. We are talking about something that involves REAL money and REAL value... REAL money that could disappear in an instant if anything goes wrong. None of us want people's money to disappear in a poof of smoke, and that's why we have to test things first. Once this thing goes live, there is no turning back. What's done is done, and that involves potentially hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of fiat value. This is not something to take lightly.

Furthermore, I did not mean that everyone MUST participate in the beta testing. It's just that if you can't or don't want to, then you cannot (with good conscience) sit back and say things like LAUNCH RIGHT NOW because you have no understanding of the implications of doing so. You are very much entitled to your opinion, but when someone like myself comes back with a list of reasons why launch cannot happen right now and that it is a silly, time-wasting argument to make then that's when you need to reflect objectively on why you think that way, or give me and the devs some very good reasons why launch needs to happen this very instant. (Launching for the sole reason that you want to trade XEM is not a good reason, by the way.)

It is very clear many people have concerns, it started with a founding figurehead showing that his ethics and morals of the New Economy Movement was not incapable of committing the sins it was against. Then once a community was won back by a new team, multiple delays and a short window of claim was open for a "unknown period of time" for a November release... pressuring stake claims while continuously extending that window of time for claims. The delaying again with a tight lip on a launch date to not continue the carrot on a stick ride we had already been on for a length of time... Which also just so happened tied up peoples investment so even if those that have lost confidence at this point wanted out, they could not exit. Meanwhile supply has been limited due to claimed stakes and thus pressuring the market that is till unclaimed, which in my opinion is a false market due to that fact. It is possible some people are taking advantage of that "market environment." Here we are and discussing March, 4-5 months beyond that point and it still is not a hard set in stone deadline for launch, while many who have been excited about this movement are starting to grow weary. If you don;t believe many people are, I beg to differ.

You state this is not the place for serious discussion about NEM and I am wasting valuable time, then complain about the trolls and non-serious discussion.

Not everyone here is capable of BETA testing. Blaming those of us that are incapable of getting involved in the BETA period is very totalitarian, and also goes against the New Economy Movements idealistic values.

"You are either a part of NEM or you aren't." So you mean you want your investors to blindly follow every move without any skepticism or critical thinking? is that the community you want?  A bunch of sheep?

If people are attacked when voicing their concerns then maybe this movement doesn't contain the attributes and ethics it was founded on  then. I would think that would be a serious concern in itself. The communities/members concerns should be responded to with compassion and professionalism.

Did run at
Mozilla browser or not???

What concerns could you possibly have? It's not vaporware. The beta is live and running right now and you can use it for yourself. The only difference between now and launch is that you can't dump all your XEM yet.

People joke around here because this is not the official forum where we talk about serious NEM business. It's been stated a million times that if you are really interested in NEM you should be on the official NEM forums or, even better, Telegram because that is where all the actual discussions are going on about NEM developments.

This forum is too full of trolls and people only interested in making a quick buck to have any type of serious discussion other than critical announcements. If you are actually interested in NEM, join the rest of the people who are interested or else just wait until launch and dump your stake and move on.

There are people working long hours for zero money to develop this coin while all the naysayers here sit back and act like it is their privilege to gain from that hard work, and anything less is an insult or a scam. If you invested in NEM then you did so at your own risk and absolutely nothing is owed to you, especially when you contribute nothing other than complaints while devs and other community members are putting many hours of their precious time into this project.

And I say this as nothing more than an ever-so-meaningless unofficial community spokesperson of sorts because I myself am not only very busy but lacking in the skills to otherwise contribute except through testing and public relations. But as an investor I have pledged my support to the team and accept the fact that it is taking time to finish the monumental task of developing a next-generation cryptocurrency from scratch. I am a part of NEM until it succeeds or until it goes to zero and that is the decision I have made. If we had more people willing to devote themselves to the project like this instead of whining and threatening to dump their investment as soon as launch happens then we could possibly build something even greater, but with or without you the NEM ecosystem will continue to develop and grow until the devs are incapable of continuing or there are zero users, neither of which I foresee happening in the near future.

So that's what it comes down to. You are either a part of NEM or you aren't. Complaining that launch is taking forever does nothing other than waste everyone's time because the devs literally cannot work any faster than they already are.

My only point was pretty soon the investors and community is going to start getting concerned. You have to understand peoples concerns at this point are not unfounded.

Like I said I believe in this project and have invested in it, and this coins has had more twists and turns than others I have been involved in and it isn't even live yet... but concerns anyone is having at this point and wavering confidence is to be expected at this point.

Are you somehow under the impression that this isn't already happening ?

I am going to tag on to your comment, but I will refrain from name calling.

I do believe there is a good possibility that those of us that have claimed our stakes have pushed the market supply down and prices up for those still trading their stake. Anyone who says that is unlikely I would like to hear why.

I do believe the delayed launch has hurt NEM. How much I do not think anyone can really gauge that.

I do believe the "Developers" are working hard but I have seen an attitude shift in their posts as well. They are almost making fun of themselves at this point, so I think even they are frustrated with the delays and it is starting to wear on everyone, developers, investors, and believers. I myself find myself checking this thread less and less. I am sure many have lost interest at this point.

But is there any real way to measure the damage without anecdotal evidence? I don;t believe so. So the proof will be in the pudding so to speak. The few times I or others have posted concerns about the never ending delays it is reiterated that everyone is going to see this through. I get excited and cheer on NEM once again, but I am starting to have serious concerns as a community member, as I am sure others are getting concerned as well.

But I have claimed my stake and have no option but to ride it out until/if NEM launches and see if the roulette wheel lands on Black or Red, or if the ball ever gets rolling to begin with.

But I will admit the constant trolling and unnecessary posts are beginning to wear on us all, and I see lots of disdain and even some broken hearts. Developers and community members I appreciate everything you have put into this "movement," but I would do everything I would to avoid a further delay, even if it means some sleepless nights, as I feel it is in everyone's best interest to see this milestone actually happen.

We all virtually lost money with those neverending delays. Except those smart enough not to redeem.

Mid-march....errr. Starting to think that the team has pathological issues about taking the decision on actually releasing the damn thing

I am not worried, but look at it this way, I could have gotten 2 NemStakes at the moment for a price of 1 when I claimed and who knows how many once Nem hits the exchanges. Don't get me wrong, I am opportunists just like we all are in crypto world to some extent, otherwise we would have stayed in good old Fiat. I just like for my money to be readily available so I can follow the market flows, nothing else.

Some people do not want a not polished job. More help and less mourn

Even there are errors on nem 0.5.4
https://github.com/NewEconomyMovement/NemCommunityClient/issues

A salute to the team nem.

Like Rome was built in one day?

If you are worried about the value in BTC/fiat then I think you are thinking about NEM the wrong way.