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Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1667. (Read 2985369 times)

hero member
Activity: 497
Merit: 501
Dear community,

I would like to point out the following situation:

Some members who have applied to join the New Economic Movement have lost access to their BTT account.

In a few cases, these same people have made contact with the development team with a second (new) account in order to claim their token.

I have come up with a simple system in which these tokens can be reclaimed by the rightful owner without risking the original owner getting scammed.


System:  Grin


The developers assign two types of priorities to the following accounts:


Priority 1 (highest priority): The original (lost) BTT account.

Priority 2 (lowest priority): The new BTT account.



Then, whenever someone claims to have lost access to an account, the developers would have to carefully inspect the case and hand over a so called "temporary token".

If the original owner claims the token from the original account at a later point in time, the developers would have to remove the "temporary token" from the list and blacklist the person who had claimed a "temporary token".

If the original owner is in fact the same person as the one who claimed the "temporary token", the stake has found it's way back to it's owner.

With this simple system, you can help those who are in a bad situation while preventing any scam.



Feedback is welcome!

To continue with this discussion, when and how are we as a community going to decide what to do with these particular stakeholders?

It'd probably be better to open a vote forum.nemcoin.com (I'll do that).
From the reactions here though, I don't think they'll vote in favor or giving lost btt accounts stakes.


The reason why I think a vote is unfair for the people who have lost their BTT account is because people who vote against the reimbursement have something to GAIN when they vote for neither. After all, those people might only act out of self-interest keeping in mind that those NEM stakes probably will get redistributed into the NEM economy and into THEIR wallets.

This puts an incentive on voting AGAINST reimbursement, leaving the already duped in an even more negative position.

Therefore the vote will always be biased and can not result in a fair outcome for the people who lost their stake.

Although I completely get your argument here, if those who participated in NEM (via claiming a stake) also acted out of self-interest and did their homework, this entire scenario would've been avoidable in the first place. Bare in mind the IPO was a call of participation; it wasn't your conventional "investment"; it was a request for people to participate and help develop NEM, it was more than an investment, it was a movement and a call to join said movement. The New Economy Movement.

I voted against purely for this reason. Not because of some agenda or some bias. I think long term NEM would suffer considerably if devs bent over backwards to accommodate to those who lost their stake through their own errors or neglect (especially when, as a movement, following it should be a priority). Sure, by all means try and help those who have lost out, but within reason, is what i'm saying.

Don't get me wrong, the last thing i'd want is for anyone to lose their stake, but I think some personal responsibility if often missing in today's modern society and seeing it transfer to NEM is destructive, in my view.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
Is there any guesstimate when Beta will be released?

All beta features are implemented.
We are currently testing every new feature and are optimizing parameters for the improved poi algorithm.
My personal guesstimate for beta start is the coming weekend.



Thanks for the short but useful update, BloodyRookie.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
Dear community,

I would like to point out the following situation:

Some members who have applied to join the New Economic Movement have lost access to their BTT account.

In a few cases, these same people have made contact with the development team with a second (new) account in order to claim their token.

I have come up with a simple system in which these tokens can be reclaimed by the rightful owner without risking the original owner getting scammed.


System:  Grin


The developers assign two types of priorities to the following accounts:


Priority 1 (highest priority): The original (lost) BTT account.

Priority 2 (lowest priority): The new BTT account.



Then, whenever someone claims to have lost access to an account, the developers would have to carefully inspect the case and hand over a so called "temporary token".

If the original owner claims the token from the original account at a later point in time, the developers would have to remove the "temporary token" from the list and blacklist the person who had claimed a "temporary token".

If the original owner is in fact the same person as the one who claimed the "temporary token", the stake has found it's way back to it's owner.

With this simple system, you can help those who are in a bad situation while preventing any scam.



Feedback is welcome!

To continue with this discussion, when and how are we as a community going to decide what to do with these particular stakeholders?

It'd probably be better to open a vote forum.nemcoin.com (I'll do that).
From the reactions here though, I don't think they'll vote in favor or giving lost btt accounts stakes.


The reason why I think a vote is unfair for the people who have lost their BTT account is because people who vote against the reimbursement have something to GAIN when they vote for neither. After all, those people might only act out of self-interest keeping in mind that those NEM stakes probably will get redistributed into the NEM economy and into THEIR wallets.

This puts an incentive on voting AGAINST reimbursement, leaving the already duped in an even more negative position.

Therefore the vote will always be biased and can not result in a fair outcome for the people who lost their stake.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
Is there any guesstimate when Beta will be released?

All beta features are implemented.
We are currently testing every new feature and are optimizing parameters for the improved poi algorithm.
My personal guesstimate for beta start is the coming weekend.


perfect,can't wait for the beta version on weekend,
we can wait ,but for the good and stable version.
hero member
Activity: 687
Merit: 500
Is there any guesstimate when Beta will be released?

All beta features are implemented.
We are currently testing every new feature and are optimizing parameters for the improved poi algorithm.
My personal guesstimate for beta start is the coming weekend.

hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 565
uhm...but after the official release, does NEM can be traded directly with BTC?
full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 100
Is there any guesstimate when Beta will be released?
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
Wow the 7 stake megawall is now almost entirely chewed through... 5.4 stake single sale in the last hour or so. I gotta say this is looking very encouraging for NEM.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013
You can prove that it is your Token, but not that you have 100% no control over it.

Yes, so to give me the stake the regular way prior to the tokens becoming worthless, then if I was shady and lying about being locked out, I could then sell the token. But if we wait until the token is worthless and I can not sell it, then it doesn't matter if I have control over it or not. Just that it is my token.

And I still have control over this account. And this is the account that requested the token.


This is a trustless decision. No one is needs to trust me that I am telling the truth because when I receive my stake the regular way, there is no way for be to go back and claim the token because it will be invalid. So it is impossible for me to get two stakes, even if i was a scammer.



Yes, you will have to wait until the stake is no more claimable and that the token is dead and that you can proof ownership of it.

And despite all the fuds, a deadline is important because we do not want people to lay claim that they never got their stakes because they were "not aware". This only opens up scam opportunities.

Scenario of a scam:

Sieze control of an account. Lie low and wait for anyone to report lost of control of this account. 6 months later, account still remain dormant. Scammer now surfaces out and says that he has a stake to claim and that he was "not aware" there was an exercise to claim stakes.

Of course there is still another possibility that the scammer claims right from day 1. But that would raise alarm and can cause them the stake as it will allow us to take counter measure.

In any case, there were only a few who wanted indefinite time to claim. So, there is no issue, i.e., there will be a deadline.

Sorry for proponents of no deadline. In fulfilling the greater objectives of an initiative, like I said, not everyone will be pleased. And we will have to work on that premise.

Chris001, looks like you have made a good case.  Its not up to me, but if it was I could understand your situation.  You still have control of all your accounts, you just sent your NEM into the dark. 

To prove this is really the case, I guess you have to wait a long long time to get your NEM as there is no other fair way, but at least you will probably get it!
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
1243 people registered.. thats +243 in what.. 2 days? not bad i think..

If you add people from NXT AE, together it will be more than 2000 stakes. So it's only ~800 missing?
true.. I'm hoping there will be no more than 400 unclaimed. At current rate of registration we shouldn't have many.. Phase 2 needs to start asap though..

Phase 2 prob won't start asap but I believe there will be an update soon.
Since the recent shitstorm we may change the process slightly to make it easier for us while taking into account what many people said.
Don't expect anything though - this is just what I think. Until there is an official update take this as bullshit.
legendary
Activity: 1059
Merit: 1016
You can prove that it is your Token, but not that you have 100% no control over it.

Yes, so to give me the stake the regular way prior to the tokens becoming worthless, then if I was shady and lying about being locked out, I could then sell the token. But if we wait until the token is worthless and I can not sell it, then it doesn't matter if I have control over it or not. Just that it is my token.

And I still have control over this account. And this is the account that requested the token.


This is a trustless decision. No one is needs to trust me that I am telling the truth because when I receive my stake the regular way, there is no way for be to go back and claim the token because it will be invalid. So it is impossible for me to get two stakes, even if i was a scammer.



Yes, you will have to wait until the stake is no more claimable and that the token is dead and that you can proof ownership of it.

And despite all the fuds, a deadline is important because we do not want people to lay claim that they never got their stakes because they were "not aware". This only opens up scam opportunities.

Scenario of a scam:

Sieze control of an account. Lie low and wait for anyone to report lost of control of this account. 6 months later, account still remain dormant. Scammer now surfaces out and says that he has a stake to claim and that he was "not aware" there was an exercise to claim stakes.

Of course there is still another possibility that the scammer claims right from day 1. But that would raise alarm and can cause them the stake as it will allow us to take counter measure.

In any case, there were only a few who wanted indefinite time to claim. So, there is no issue, i.e., there will be a deadline.

Sorry for proponents of no deadline. In fulfilling the greater objectives of an initiative, like I said, not everyone will be pleased. And we will have to work on that premise.
sr. member
Activity: 289
Merit: 250
will NEM stake's price reach again 3BTC before the official release? 

I can see that happening.  Once we are a few days away from launch, the price will probably shoot up 2 or 3 times.

uhm...you are very optimistic. I hope you're right Cheesy
I am more optimistic.
NEM's decentralization is very powerful merit in POS crypto.
I believe NEM will surpass not only NXT but also Ripple in market cap within 2 years.
The market cap of Ripple is about 140,000,000 dollar now.
140,000,000/4,000= 35,000 dollar.
Above sum is in point of now.
After 2 years, the market cap will increase.
And then the price of I NEM stake(1,000,000 NEMcoin) will be 35,000 x (  ) dollar.
So, all selling NEMcoin after launch is not good for you, but it may be helpful for decentralization by wide distribution.
In other words, your sacrifice for Nem's prosperity.
Will you do it?  ^ . ^
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!
Cases like chris101 I think shoulda be fairly cut and dry. If someone else has access to it there is no doubt it would be claimed. Accidents happen.. As long as the stake doesn't get claimed then I would certainly agree that your stake should get reassigned to your btt account and I think most others should too.

wait a minute...is it chris101 or chris001?.......feel like I,m gettin scammed already... Wink
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
electroneum.com
Cases like chris101 I think shoulda be fairly cut and dry. If someone else has access to it there is no doubt it would be claimed. Accidents happen.. As long as the stake doesn't get claimed then I would certainly agree that your stake should get reassigned to your btt account and I think most others should too.


Thank you very much for your support!!!

I apologize to everyone for having to take the time to vote and help me and a few others.

I made the mistake and there are much more important things going on, so I am sorry for the distraction.

Thanks everyone. Please vote here if you have not already.

https://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2524.0
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
electroneum.com
You can prove that it is your Token, but not that you have 100% no control over it.

Yes, so to give me the stake the regular way prior to the tokens becoming worthless, then if I was shady and lying about being locked out, I could then sell the token. But if we wait until the token is worthless and I can not sell it, then it doesn't matter if I have control over it or not. Just that it is my token.

And I still have control over this account. And this is the account that requested the token.


This is a trustless decision. No one is needs to trust me that I am telling the truth because when I receive my stake the regular way, there is no way for be to go back and claim the token because it will be invalid. So it is impossible for me to get two stakes, even if i was a scammer.

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
electroneum.com

The fact is that I can prove that it's my token. No one is disputing that.



If you can prove that it's your token, I don't think there will be any problem for you to receive it.

We have said we are not in favor of people receiving stakes for which they have absolutely no proof of ownership. I don't even want to imagine where the road of broken incentives for claiming dumb stakes leads.


This is great to hear Xtester!!  Smiley

I can prove that this Account sent the PM with the wrong Nxt account number. That Nxt acct only had a few Nxt sent to it by Kodtycoon to help me make it more secure.

Then the token was sent to it.

There have been no transactions made from that account since then as I am locked out of it.

I have the PM copy from when I claimed the token, and I sent a PM and reported it months ago.

So once it is no longer possible for the token to be sold on the Nxt exchange, and the token has still not been moved or sold, and it is still in there, I just can't send the token in to be destroyed, but it's basically destroyed anyway because it is worthless at that point.

I have been worrying about this for a long time. I figured as long as I could prove that I am a stakeholder and prove that I never used the token, that it wouldn't be a problem to get my stake the regular way.


Thanks for understanding. Pat and others agree as well. I really want to thank him for him setting up the vote and doing everything he can to help me. Thank you all. I am just trying to make sure the community really understands what the situation is because of all the lowlifes that ARE trying to do everything they can to steal a stake.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
So, what's happening now? I thought the BETA was supposed to launch yesterday on the 14th?

No, it wasn't.
Estimations are just an approximation of future.

We are pretty close. I think our devs will be able to post an update soon.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1001
CEO Bitpanda.com
You can prove that it is your Token, but not that you have 100% no control over it.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.

The fact is that I can prove that it's my token. No one is disputing that.



If you can prove that it's your token, I don't think there will be any problem for you to receive it.

We have said we are not in favor of people receiving stakes for which they have absolutely no proof of previous ownership. I don't even want to imagine where the road of broken incentives for claiming dumb stakes leads. That's a dead end and we should do well to avoid such obvious errors.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
electroneum.com
I had my Nxt token sent to the wrong Acct.

It is still sitting there. When the Tokens are worthless on the asset exchange and it was never moved, I don't see why anyone would vote for me not to get my stake.

I have a copy of the PM that I sent to get the token. I put the wrong acct number on the PM. Yes, this was my mistake but I made it aware to Pat a long time ago and the token has not moved since.

If I can prove that I am not scamming, and prove that I never sold the token, and prove that it is locked in a account and can no longer be redeemed or sold, why can't I get my stake the regular way, since I can prove that I never did anything with the "token" that was supposed to represent my stake?

It is obviously mine. I never used the token. There is no way for me to use the token. So there is no reason not to give me the stake the regular way since the token was never used.

THANK YOU to those who voted not to take my stake away. I have been waiting to get it many many months.

I thought that it would be more secure on the Nxt exchange, but I screwed up the password.
I had never used Nxt before and I have only used to accts where if you type in the wrong password it says "error".
I understand now that it just makes you a new account.

The fact is that I can prove that it's my token. No one is disputing that.

I can prove it is still locked in my Nxt account once that it becomes invalid.

So, do I really have to have the ability to send it back to be destroyed? when it is worthless anyway at that point.

I made a BIG mistake and it was my fault.

I just want to thank those in the community for standing up for me and helping me get my stake. I just wish everybody understood that there is no way for me to be scamming another stake here. I hope everyone just understands that.

I think a lot of people just looked at the vote and thought they were opening up the chance of another scam.

In this case I can PROVE that there is no possible way for me to get two stakes out of this deal.

I still have control of this Bitcointalk account that registered in the first place.

So if you are one of the people who voted to not allow the token to become worthless in the account and then claim my stake the normal way, please look into this further. All you have to do is read all of the details above and it explains it.

Pat, kodtycoon, and a few of the devs have no problem letting us claim our stakes the regular way as long as the community agrees with it.

I thought that the NEM community would do everything it could to help someone get their stake as long as it could be proven that I am not scamming a stake. I still have faith that some of you would change your mind and if you did not vote please do so. I really need your help here. It takes 30 seconds.

I would help you save yours if you needed me.


Please vote here: https://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2524.30


Thank you for taking the time to vote.

And a BIG THANK YOU to all of you that took the time to understand and stood up for me and a few others when we needed your help.


We should stick together and help each other in the community as much as possible when mistakes are made. If they can't be fixed without risk, then the community has done all it can to help.

But when the problem can be solved, and the community can help fix the mistake with a simple vote, I say we be that kind of helpful and caring community whenever we can.
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