NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1723.

TaunSew

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Quote from: patmast3r on October 01, 2014, 02:48:57 AM

Quote from: TaunSew on October 01, 2014, 02:37:02 AM

...
I would make it optional (just like token request is optional). If you want that extra layer of security of being email verified over BTT verified then you send Patmast3r / xtester a message containing your email.

Just a reminder that, once you send out that message, that you delete your sent outbox (so if your BTT is compromised then whoever has your account can't find out what email you gave Patmast3r / Xtester)

Such a pm could also come from an overtaken account so there is really no way to know if the email will be legit.
My advice is to store the token (I hope we can send out really soon) somewhere other than btt and then delete the pm. After that you can do with your btt account whatever you want

It's an individuals responsibility to report their account being compromised as soon as possible (ASAP). NEM has been in pre-release for a long time now. Hasn't there been two previous breaches prior to the current one? Seems like if you had an account compromised for months and didn't report it then it was probably a forgotten account to begin with.

patmast3r

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Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: TaunSew on October 01, 2014, 02:37:02 AM

...
I would make it optional (just like token request is optional). If you want that extra layer of security of being email verified over BTT verified then you send Patmast3r / xtester a message containing your email.

Just a reminder that, once you send out that message, that you delete your sent outbox (so if your BTT is compromised then whoever has your account can't find out what email you gave Patmast3r / Xtester)

Such a pm could also come from an overtaken account so there is really no way to know if the email will be legit.
My advice is to store the token (I hope we can send out really soon) somewhere other than btt and then delete the pm. After that you can do with your btt account whatever you want

nembit86

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Activity: 588

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NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Quote from: TaunSew on October 01, 2014, 02:33:19 AM

Quote from: nembit86 on October 01, 2014, 02:27:47 AM

Yes, wealth is a state of mind. If someone from the middle ages had access to immediate safe water supply, inside toilets, ability to get all over the world in hours and entertainment at his fingertips( internet) and so on......then I dare say that person would consider himself more wealthy than his king.

I emphasize wealth more than technology. I don't confuse wealth with being rich but rather wealth being independent.

You can have someone in contemporary times with access to these contemporary things but they might be working 60 hours a week at three part time jobs. Would you rather be that part time worker or a Medieval King (who doesn't have to labour) with 30 servants? That is a comparison of extremes I guess.

Especially with how society has devolved - I think I would rather take my chance as a Cowboy in the 1890s when there was plentiful free land than the possible future where 99% of people are living in rental apartments (but with distractions). Granted this is me coming from an international Anglophone Pax Americana culture where owning real estate is culturally important.

Depends on who you are as to what wealth is I suppose.

TaunSew

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Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: patmast3r on October 01, 2014, 02:32:51 AM

Quote from: rockethead on October 01, 2014, 02:02:54 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mepsipax on September 30, 2014, 04:04:16 PM

Hi I just attempted to log in here to Bicointalk.org, and had trouble with my password - which I hadn't changed.

Was getting nowhere, so I requested a password change, waited - no email was sent to my registered address.

Finally got in via my 'secret question' to find my email address had been changed to a Russian one!

My password for this site btw is around 16 characters/upper/lower/numbers etc so should be impossible to guess.

I have now changed my email address back to my original one, and changed my password (another long random one)

My PC is clean, no keyloggers or trojans etc

Given that our Btc.Org accounts are our proof of Nem stake, I am concerned this may happen again.

Advice appreciated

gald you got your account back.

@devs, perhaps the "token" or "code" that will be used for redemption should be sent out ASAP to prevent any more lost accounts for what ever reasons?

Actually, we should have the email account sent instead. THis is all going to be messy as we do not know who is real and who is fake anymore. It could be a hijack in plan and we don't know.

If we don't know who's fake anymore how would you like to collect those email addresses ?

Well unless you want to read and organize information from 3000 profiles.

I would make it optional (just like token request is optional). If you want that extra layer of security of being email verified over BTT verified then you send Patmast3r / xtester a message containing your email.

Just a reminder that, once you send out that message, that you delete your sent outbox (so if your BTT is compromised then whoever has your account can't find out what email you gave Patmast3r / Xtester)

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: nembit86 on October 01, 2014, 02:27:47 AM

Yes, wealth is a state of mind. If someone from the middle ages had access to immediate safe water supply, inside toilets, ability to get all over the world in hours and entertainment at his fingertips( internet) and so on......then I dare say that person would consider himself more wealthy than his king.

I emphasize wealth more than technology. I don't mistake wealth as being exclusive to the rich but rather wealth as a measure of independence.

You can have someone in contemporary times with access to these contemporary things (and distractions) but they might be working 60 hours a week at three part time jobs. Would you rather be that part time worker or a Medieval King? That is a comparison of extremes I guess.

Especially with how society has devolved - I think I would rather take my chance as a Cowboy in the 1890s when there was plentiful free land than the possible future where 99% of people are living in rental apartments (but with distractions). Granted this is me coming from an international Anglophone Pax Americana culture where owning real estate is culturally important.

patmast3r

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Activity: 980

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Quote from: rockethead on October 01, 2014, 02:02:54 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mepsipax on September 30, 2014, 04:04:16 PM

Hi I just attempted to log in here to Bicointalk.org, and had trouble with my password - which I hadn't changed.

Was getting nowhere, so I requested a password change, waited - no email was sent to my registered address.

Finally got in via my 'secret question' to find my email address had been changed to a Russian one!

My password for this site btw is around 16 characters/upper/lower/numbers etc so should be impossible to guess.

I have now changed my email address back to my original one, and changed my password (another long random one)

My PC is clean, no keyloggers or trojans etc

Given that our Btc.Org accounts are our proof of Nem stake, I am concerned this may happen again.

Advice appreciated

gald you got your account back.

@devs, perhaps the "token" or "code" that will be used for redemption should be sent out ASAP to prevent any more lost accounts for what ever reasons?

Actually, we should have the email account sent instead. THis is all going to be messy as we do not know who is real and who is fake anymore. It could be a hijack in plan and we don't know.

If we don't know who's fake anymore how would you like to collect those email addresses ?

nembit86

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Yes, wealth is a state of mind. If someone from the middle ages had access to immediate safe water supply, inside toilets, ability to get all over the world in hours and entertainment at his fingertips( internet) and so on......then I dare say that person would consider himself more wealthy than his king.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: nembit86 on October 01, 2014, 01:19:29 AM

always amazes me why governments and even the people seem to think that 2% inflation is acceptable and even good. over 10 years at this rate means a devaluation of 22% of the money. Thats fine if wages keep up but they invariably dont.

People WILL spend money when they need to. Do you really think that someone will put off buying a car or something for the house or anything for that matter because it will be slightly cheaper next year? Its not human nature.

another thing. people will just have to learn to keep their passwords secure ...or else lose everything...

Stagflation is the correct term for the first sentence.

The necessity argument is true but there's also inheritance as well. I can't really name many dynasties which preserved their wealth for centuries, other then the Rothschild (their alleged wealth could just be allegations and no basis in reality).

Most of the wealthy dynasties today are families which emerged after 1913, when inflationary $Fiat became king. In an inflationary supply it seems like all the printed or fractional reserve wealth is concentrated into a few hands and worker's incomes decline due to stagflation and their savings are diminished through the hidden tax on the poor being inflation.

Of course even with a fixed monetary supply it doesn't really address the problem of fractional reserves which is where most of the inflation is coming from. In ancient times, you just told the King that you suspect the gold keeper was lying or you send the mob to investigate. Today, banks can announce "banking holidays" (or blame "technical errors from hackers), all the numbers are digital (so no physical vaults that can be inspected) and various tricks in the book to avoid a bank panic.

rockethead

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mepsipax on September 30, 2014, 04:04:16 PM

Hi I just attempted to log in here to Bicointalk.org, and had trouble with my password - which I hadn't changed.

Was getting nowhere, so I requested a password change, waited - no email was sent to my registered address.

Finally got in via my 'secret question' to find my email address had been changed to a Russian one!

My password for this site btw is around 16 characters/upper/lower/numbers etc so should be impossible to guess.

I have now changed my email address back to my original one, and changed my password (another long random one)

My PC is clean, no keyloggers or trojans etc

Given that our Btc.Org accounts are our proof of Nem stake, I am concerned this may happen again.

Advice appreciated

gald you got your account back.

@devs, perhaps the "token" or "code" that will be used for redemption should be sent out ASAP to prevent any more lost accounts for what ever reasons?

Actually, we should have the email account sent instead. THis is all going to be messy as we do not know who is real and who is fake anymore. It could be a hijack in plan and we don't know.

nembit86

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

Quote from: patmast3r on October 01, 2014, 01:46:32 AM

Quote from: nembit86 on October 01, 2014, 01:19:29 AM

always amazes me why governments and even the people seem to think that 2% inflation is acceptable and even good. over 10 years at this rate means a devaluation of 22% of the money. Thats fine if wages keep up but they invariably dont.

People WILL spend money when they need to. Do you really think that someone will put off buying a car or something for the house or anything for that matter because it will be slightly cheaper next year? Its not human nature.

another thing. people will just have to learn to keep their passwords secure ...or else lose everything...

Why is everyone coming up with these percentages.
We'd be talking about 0.1 % here.
It could e.g. be used to pay random rewards to people running nodes that usually don't get to harvest because their POI-score isn't hight enough. Kind of a lottery to make the network stronger.

I'm glad this actually turned into a decent discussion and not some flame war

Obviously I wasnt anticipating you guys setting inflation at 2% , that would then be as absurd as it is now.

patmast3r

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Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: nembit86 on October 01, 2014, 01:19:29 AM

always amazes me why governments and even the people seem to think that 2% inflation is acceptable and even good. over 10 years at this rate means a devaluation of 22% of the money. Thats fine if wages keep up but they invariably dont.

People WILL spend money when they need to. Do you really think that someone will put off buying a car or something for the house or anything for that matter because it will be slightly cheaper next year? Its not human nature.

another thing. people will just have to learn to keep their passwords secure ...or else lose everything...

Why is everyone coming up with these percentages.
We'd be talking about 0.1 % here.
It could e.g. be used to pay random rewards to people running nodes that usually don't get to harvest because their POI-score isn't hight enough. Kind of a lottery to make the network stronger.

I'm glad this actually turned into a decent discussion and not some flame war

nembit86

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

NEM ....best currency distribution ever ...!!!!!!!

always amazes me why governments and even the people seem to think that 2% inflation is acceptable and even good. over 10 years at this rate means a devaluation of 22% of the money. Thats fine if wages keep up but they invariably dont.

People WILL spend money when they need to. Do you really think that someone will put off buying a car or something for the house or anything for that matter because it will be slightly cheaper next year? Its not human nature.

another thing. people will just have to learn to keep their passwords secure ...or else lose everything...

makoto1337

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Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 11:53:06 PM

Quote from: makoto1337 on September 30, 2014, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 11:28:59 PM

Quote from: mrvegad on September 30, 2014, 11:19:11 PM

“Inflation will erupt even when the supply of money does NOT increase – it depends upon DEMAND. If the people decide to hoard toilet paper because of a coming storm, the price will rise with demand.” - http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/06/inflation-is-not-always-caused-by-change-in-money-supply-deflation-is-engulfing-europe/

What NEM is missing as well as other cryptos is a supply and demand model. When there is demand for NEM more NEM will be created, no demand for NEM then none will be created (would be better if some of the NEM were destroyed. Good article here: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

Supply and demand works both ways. If demand falls then the system would have to remove NEM from circulation (tax) or some NEMbank would have to create fake demand - both scenarios would be PR disasters.

Give someone a reason to buy NEM if they're being subject to all these taxes / fees / inflation? Forget it - they'll be walking to the nearest Vanguard Investment Branch or would be looking at real estate investments.

Obviously I am not blind and I see what you are attempting to do. You want us to implement eMunie's system but eMunie's system has long been debated on Bitcointalk and most people are against it.

I think eMunie has an interesting economic model, but it is somewhat complicated and it would be better to keep the core simple and allow more complex institutions and derivatives to be built on top. And they will most certainly be built by someone.

As mentioned before, NEM will be destroyed over time by people losing accts or sending NEM to bogus addresses. I think a very small amount of NEM creation might make sense because of that. This hasn't been decided, of course. TS and others make good points.

Coins can be "lost" but the net result would probably be more coins "gained". There will be all this NEM that will likely be created by third entities due to fractional reserves or even the asset exchange. The NXT asset exchange already had some assets that were worth more than the total supply of NXT.

NEM will support colored coins so I think the core NEM itself should be untouched. If you want to experiment with some eMunie hatching coin or some inflationary coin then that can likely be done with a colored coin.

If crypto currencies go mainstream then most national governments would likely go down the colored coin route (as it gives them the choice to do whatever they want, like print more coins to make their exports cheaper).

The colored coin idea is somewhat interesting. If everyone is really against inflation of NEM then that might be a good option to look into.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: makoto1337 on September 30, 2014, 11:44:43 PM

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 11:28:59 PM

Quote from: mrvegad on September 30, 2014, 11:19:11 PM

“Inflation will erupt even when the supply of money does NOT increase – it depends upon DEMAND. If the people decide to hoard toilet paper because of a coming storm, the price will rise with demand.” - http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/06/inflation-is-not-always-caused-by-change-in-money-supply-deflation-is-engulfing-europe/

What NEM is missing as well as other cryptos is a supply and demand model. When there is demand for NEM more NEM will be created, no demand for NEM then none will be created (would be better if some of the NEM were destroyed. Good article here: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

Supply and demand works both ways. If demand falls then the system would have to remove NEM from circulation (tax) or some NEMbank would have to create fake demand - both scenarios would be PR disasters.

Give someone a reason to buy NEM if they're being subject to all these taxes / fees / inflation? Forget it - they'll be walking to the nearest Vanguard Investment Branch or would be looking at real estate investments.

Obviously I am not blind and I see what you are attempting to do. You want us to implement eMunie's system but eMunie's system has long been debated on Bitcointalk and most people are against it.

I think eMunie has an interesting economic model, but it is somewhat complicated and it would be better to keep the core simple and allow more complex institutions and derivatives to be built on top. And they will most certainly be built by someone.

As mentioned before, NEM will be destroyed over time by people losing accts or sending NEM to bogus addresses. I think a very small amount of NEM creation might make sense because of that. This hasn't been decided, of course. TS and others make good points.

Coins can be "lost" but the net result would probably be more coins "gained". There will be all this NEM that will likely be created by third entities due to fractional reserves or even the asset exchange. The NXT asset exchange already had some assets that were worth more than the total supply of NXT.

NEM will support colored coins so I think the core NEM itself should be untouched. If you want to experiment with some eMunie hatching coin or some inflationary coin then that can likely be done with a colored coin.

If crypto currencies go mainstream then most national governments would likely go down the colored coin route (as it gives them the choice to do whatever they want, like print more coins to make their exports cheaper).

makoto1337

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

I am not Dorian Nakamoto.

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 11:28:59 PM

Quote from: mrvegad on September 30, 2014, 11:19:11 PM

“Inflation will erupt even when the supply of money does NOT increase – it depends upon DEMAND. If the people decide to hoard toilet paper because of a coming storm, the price will rise with demand.” - http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/06/inflation-is-not-always-caused-by-change-in-money-supply-deflation-is-engulfing-europe/

What NEM is missing as well as other cryptos is a supply and demand model. When there is demand for NEM more NEM will be created, no demand for NEM then none will be created (would be better if some of the NEM were destroyed. Good article here: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

Supply and demand works both ways. If demand falls then the system would have to remove NEM from circulation (tax) or some NEMbank would have to create fake demand - both scenarios would be PR disasters.

Give someone a reason to buy NEM if they're being subject to all these taxes / fees / inflation? Forget it - they'll be walking to the nearest Vanguard Investment Branch or would be looking at real estate investments.

Obviously I am not blind and I see what you are attempting to do. You want us to implement eMunie's system but eMunie's system has long been debated on Bitcointalk and most people are against it.

I think eMunie has an interesting economic model, but it is somewhat complicated and it would be better to keep the core simple and allow more complex institutions and derivatives to be built on top. And they will most certainly be built by someone.

As mentioned before, NEM will be destroyed over time by people losing accts or sending NEM to bogus addresses. I think a very small amount of NEM creation might make sense because of that. This hasn't been decided, of course. TS and others make good points.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: mrvegad on September 30, 2014, 11:19:11 PM

“Inflation will erupt even when the supply of money does NOT increase – it depends upon DEMAND. If the people decide to hoard toilet paper because of a coming storm, the price will rise with demand.” - http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/06/inflation-is-not-always-caused-by-change-in-money-supply-deflation-is-engulfing-europe/

What NEM is missing as well as other cryptos is a supply and demand model. When there is demand for NEM more NEM will be created, no demand for NEM then none will be created (would be better if some of the NEM were destroyed. Good article here: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

Supply and demand works both ways. If demand falls then the system would have to remove NEM from circulation (tax) or some NEMbank would have to create fake demand - both scenarios would be PR disasters.

Give someone a reason to buy NEM if they're being subject to all these taxes / fees / inflation? Forget it - they'll be walking to the nearest Vanguard Investment Branch or would be looking at real estate investments.

Obviously I am not blind and I see what you are attempting to do. You want us to implement eMunie's system but eMunie's system has long been debated on Bitcointalk and most people are against it.

mrvegad

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

“Inflation will erupt even when the supply of money does NOT increase – it depends upon DEMAND. If the people decide to hoard toilet paper because of a coming storm, the price will rise with demand.” - http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/06/inflation-is-not-always-caused-by-change-in-money-supply-deflation-is-engulfing-europe/

What NEM is missing as well as other cryptos is a supply and demand model. When there is demand for NEM more NEM will be created, no demand for NEM then none will be created (would be better if some of the NEM were destroyed. Good article here: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

jabo38

legendary

Activity: 1232

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mining is so 2012-2013

I would be fine with 0% inflation

EFFV

sr. member

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Merit: 250

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 09:26:28 PM

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on September 30, 2014, 05:43:24 PM

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 03:41:01 PM

The way you get people to spend their coins is to increase the price of the coin or to give them incentives to spend. PoI in a way is a lot like those reward points you see in credit cards / debit cards and people love that stuff.

I respectfully disagree. Increasing the price of the coin encourages people to hoard, not spend. If people think time will increase their wealth, they will not spend. That is why deflation is such a threat. In deflationary economies, spending power increases over time, and consumer spending drops precipitously.

Inflation has the opposite effect. It erodes spending power over time. While it's bad for an individual, it's healthy for an economy. It makes people less likely to save and more likely to spend because it causes spending power to decrease over time.

Actually there would still be immense inflation in a fixed total supply. Leave the total supply alone.

Fractional Reserve Banking has been around since 6000 BC (when people deposited their gold into the prototypical banks in return for scrip and there were more IOUs than reserves). FRB in the modern era means banks can print immense fortunes out of thin air and this is the cause for a lot of inflation in our world. FRB won't go away just because we have digital currencies. There's even fractional reserves in the world's gold supply (more gold exists on paper than what actually exists).

Then there's the inflation / deflation cycles that occur from velocity of money and market conditions (war, droughts, overproduction, underproduction, et cetera).

As I said before inflation is a tax on the poor and it simply doesn't belong in a digital currency and should be minimized (why would the mainstream adopt digital currencies if they can preserve their wealth better through things like Vanguard Investments, real estate, et cetera).

I am also against inflation for reasons TaunSew has stated.

Inflation will add more confusion and instability to a young market like NEM. Not only people who own alot of NEM will save. Inflation will also affect the guy who owns only .1 NEMstake. Saving is not a bad thing. Spending is not a bad thing. Keep the market as simple as possible. Average Joe probably will not weight inflation when he buys NEM, but NEM early adopter will think about it alot. This will lead to the latter having the advantage.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: Jaguar0625 on September 30, 2014, 05:43:24 PM

Quote from: TaunSew on September 30, 2014, 03:41:01 PM

The way you get people to spend their coins is to increase the price of the coin or to give them incentives to spend. PoI in a way is a lot like those reward points you see in credit cards / debit cards and people love that stuff.

I respectfully disagree. Increasing the price of the coin encourages people to hoard, not spend. If people think time will increase their wealth, they will not spend. That is why deflation is such a threat. In deflationary economies, spending power increases over time, and consumer spending drops precipitously.

Inflation has the opposite effect. It erodes spending power over time. While it's bad for an individual, it's healthy for an economy. It makes people less likely to save and more likely to spend because it causes spending power to decrease over time.

Actually there would still be immense inflation in a fixed total supply. Leave the total supply alone.

Fractional Reserve Banking has been around since 6000 BC (when people deposited their gold into the prototypical banks in return for scrip and there were more IOUs than reserves). FRB in the modern era means banks can print immense fortunes out of thin air and this is the cause for a lot of inflation in our world. FRB won't go away just because we have digital currencies. There's even fractional reserves in the world's gold supply (more gold exists on paper than what actually exists).

Then there's the inflation / deflation cycles that occur from velocity of money and market conditions (war, droughts, overproduction, underproduction, et cetera).

As I said before inflation is a tax on the poor and it simply doesn't belong in a digital currency and should be minimized (why would the mainstream adopt digital currencies if they can preserve their wealth better through things like Vanguard Investments, real estate, et cetera).

Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs - page 1723. (Read 2985623 times)