Topic: New EU AML ban bitcoin anonymous payment (Read 688 times)

Is it now safe to conclude that technology is a hindrance to financial freedom, seeing how badly the government of many countries want to ensure any new initiative for crypto currency be made useless and regulated, so as to frustrate it from being a top currency of choice and out shining the regular controlled fiat ?

The ban certainly didn't come as a shock to me because since last year, any and almost all anonymous tools created to facilitate the ease of using BTC like the banned mixrs have been way more shunned.
KYC verification as well as taxes in most cases have become a necessity to allow cryptocurrency to be used and acceptable for payments and transactions across borders.
It seems the governments would keep scrutinizing cryptocurrencies nonetheless, but am sure they won't deny that cryptocurrency is a genius idea that is sufficient to say the least in itself and is a currency of the future that is a success and has done good to reveal deficiencies in the fiat monetary system.

I'm technically a noob but I always believed that the entire point of crypto was self custody and being able to pay other people without the interference of any exchange. Similar to sending an other person a file via bluetooth

I always expected banks and government to fight against crypto with enormous taxes and regulations. And I said that they would go after the exchanges 10 years ago when BTC was 100 bucks. Hence why I never bought BTC at low prices.
It seems that my fears are only becoming reality now. But it's interesting to see who will end up winning this fight. The little people or big government

They are planning a centralized crypto currency, common, how funny is that:

A guy from the Keepyourmouthshutoryoujumpoutofthewindow is telling us bedtime stories about a currency created by Russia that will be free of "politics".

BRICS hate cryptos, just go over the list, China banned eveything about Bitcoin, China and Russia are when friendly when talking about banning it, Egypt has also declared it illegal, out of the BRICS and their new addition only brazil has a positive view, the rest are the worse in the world.

I am no expert on this topic but in my opinion it seems clear the EU will be trying to put obstacles in the way of their citizens crypto adoption but I cannot state the same for BRICS. From what I understand, the BRICS nations are interested in developing their own crypto to remove settlement of trade in $USD.

I actually agree. I think anyone moving around that much money must be subject to greater good reasoning. Yes, privacy, I know, but my liberal side doth argue that the benefit of accountability for the wealthy outweigh their need for privacy -- besides they can afford much more privacy than the little guy who can only access some tools. I mean, if I were lucky enough to be transacting 10k often, I'd be happy for them to KYC me on each (here, have my ID you already have anyway, f you very much).

Thank god for Bitcoin.

Twitter isn't a trustworthy source of information, unless it's a tweet by someone or an entity with a high reputation. This article analyses the rumours and says that it's a misinterpretation of words by one European MP, and that self-custody won't be illegal. Cash payments will indeed be limited to EUR 10,000. However, that doesn't mean that the limit applies to self-custodial wallets. And also, to be honest, I think EUR 10,000 is a fair limit per transaction to impose some sort of KYC.

Sorry, I must've slipped. I wrote this in a fit of rage.

It is true that BRICS countries don't like crypto, and now for some reason the EU wants to follow their lead too. Why? It's not like they are going to accomplish anything useful with this, all it's going to do is get them more hate on Twitter and these parts of the internet.

Maybe they have an ace up their sleeves:

https://www.eetimes.com/euro-bank-notes-to-embed-rfid-chips-by-2005/
https://www.fleur-de-coin.com/eurocoins/banknote-rfid

They plan to release a new (3rd) series of banknotes...

Unfortunately the EU governments already know too much about Bitcoin and Crypto transactions
when it goes through KYC exchanges and bank accounts. This new ruling is another step in them
trying to identify more and more who is doing what.

Its about reducing anonymity and increasing control.

We can still do mini transactions and still do P2P trades for cash. As long as there is Cash then
transactions can still be untraceable.

The powers that control financial channels and transactions will want to trace every transaction that does not involve a cash payments and they will find ways to do it.

It has given every government (including the EU) a headache as they are trying to find ways to control crypto. The US has been busy with XRP, Binance, FTX, BTC ETF and now Ethereum. The EU is getting busy with their own agenda and I think it is clear they will regulate it.

Good luck if it's true (it is true, just precisely how they want to regulate that will be anyone's guess).

I can still pay anonymously for my shopping and food delivery, if they want to start enforcing people to use custodial, KYC'd wallets, they need only look at the debacle of El Salvador.

Plus, as stompix says above, each country will apply a national comprehension of what this means. AMLD4 and AMLD5 already did see the death of Bitcoin ATMs where I live, I doubt they will want to kill off further payment innovations (Bitcoin 3rd party processors and even lightning merchants popular in niche cities).

No, there is one thing about the EU, as long as this is not a directive then it's not a binding rule for all the states.
There was never a cash limit imposed by the EU
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001048-ASW_EN.html
but every country has either enforced its own limits or has decided to not do a thing, France had 10k, Spain had 1k, and Germany had no limit (in theory).

If this goes as regulation every country would be again able to request either delays on its own policies, which are worse in most cases, if it's a directive then for a lot of the EU population not much will change.


To be honest you lost me at the limit for anonymous payments, because if somebody can stack those up then you're not anonymous at all, more like bitcoin pseudo-anonymous!
If somebody thinks they are after the little guy who will split the 10 000 in 5 sums and just be done with it they are mistaken, avoiding taxes and undeclared cross-border payments as well as revenues have gone up like mad since the COVID era. You're talking about a guy purchasing $100  worth of metals I've seen 10 years of business partners offering us cash payments per truck, 5% of if we sell without a receipt, and those are 30-45k euros of food per truck, I haven't seen these things happening like this since the 90's.

The EU has acted stupidly with all that freedom before and now that they want to plug in the whole they have created themselves there will be of course collateral victims!
But, at the end of the line, everyone wanted crypto to be legal, to use crypto as fiat, so why the surprise when it's treated the same way?

Wait, what?

I thought you had said BRICs are against crypto:


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63852510

First of all: Fuck them.

Second of all: They can't censor the bitcoin network.

It's as big of a strawman as Nigeria, Russia or Bangladesh banning crypto.

Stupid laws like this make everyone put aside their differences and unite. CSW too.

As long as you pays bills worth a few hundred dollars that include tax, no one cares about anonymity or not. Try to buy something bigger, a house for example, especially if the reported trade is significantly different from the market price.

Governments often pass laws that are impossible to put into practice, while the law seems harsh, the number of people making transactions that large in a consistent basis which live in Europe should be very low, and the few that could be subject to that law could avoid it if they take the appropriate measures, which will make way more difficult to identify who they are, so while such law can create some headlines, most of those living at Europe are completely unaffected by this.

I remember the limit was around 10 thousand until years ago.  Or am I wrong?

The issue is that they are slowly restricting more and more of the amount until they will finally impose a restriction on every Anonymous Cash payment or put a very low threshold.  Hopefully not.  But it is what it looks like.

Then there is one more thing.  Is it for payments over 3,000 Euros as in you can spend 30 Euros 100 times in an year, or is it a cumulative limit?  The Anonymous payment limit on Precious Metals in Europe is cumulative.  As in, back when the limit was 10,000 Euros you could have placed 100 different orders in the time span of years, worth 100 Dollars each.  Then you are considered to have passed the 10,000 Euros Anonymous limit and are therefore required to send Know Your Customer information if you want to order again.

Of course, this cumulative limit is mostly for Online orders where you can particularly request and Anonymous invoice, or for physical purchases.  And of course, this limit is easy to pass for physical purchases.  The point I am trying to make is that it is still a harsh limit and they are still slowly restricting every now and then until the threshold becomes so low you will not be able to purchase any thing besides a few cans of soda without having to provide information.

Well, what you state is true in multiple ways. All the signs that are being sent out seem to amount them wanting to have a hold or control over citizens financial transactions as it helps monitor their activities. I find those restrictions counterproductive and would view them as taking steps backwards rather than embrace evolving (crypto) technology.

The sad part about the legislation is that is will be covering the whole of the EU therefore the number of countries affected will be 27 with a combined population (as of 2020) of 450 million. Was it necessary for them to implement this law? I would say it was not.

Alot is happening in the cryptocurrency landscape lately and government are beginning to build crossed blocks along the growing path of the cryptocurrency Industry with the so called regulatory procedures that are aimed.ed at controlling the cryptocurrency market and also enforcing a killer mode method which are tool of anti bitcoin crusaders.

Many of the countries that made attempts at regulating bitcoin have gotten alit of things wrong and at that can lead to a resistance and more privacy consciousness among crypto communities,  since with such laws bitcoin users will know how to act and when to handout their privacy,  this is not only happening in the EU, but even in my country,  there have been similar anti cryptocurrency driven laws which up till now have no provable effects on the market.

Also you must use Tor and not IP address. Also if you do not buy bitcoin on exchanges like as we are paid in signature campaigns on this forum and if you use Tor for access this forum, such transactions are anonymous without mixers or conjoins.

Even if they track it and not link to any illegal activities, what will they do? They can only go for transactions with big amount of coins, not just small amount of coins. These governments do not even want people to take breath at all, they are getting worse day by day in a way they even prefer to track peoples activities at their home.