Topic: New Mt. Gox class action in U.S. - page 3. (Read 6420 times)

Great ideas, freedombit!

Similar to the miller's daughter in Rumpelstiltskin, you can probably best succeed with your organizing plan by "spinning straw into gold". Rather than merely setting up a new exchange, develop a mobile bitcoin ap too for conducting micropayments. It should be one that works well in developing countries such as Myanmar and Bangladesh. Also, please do not forget to make a few important friends in Japan who can make things happen for your committee. They will be impressed if you offer them something that appeals to them.

I'll organize. I need volunteers:

1) One person to build a website like mtgoxrecovery.com, but with more interaction to help those interested organize

2) One or more attorneys in Japan - corporate bankruptcy attorney - someone that knows what is going to happen to all of these assets of MtGox. For those of you that do not know, it is likely that all Bitcoin will be auctioned off, and converted to YEN. If you think the Bitcoin will be sold at current market rates, you need to spend more time at silent auctions for your local charities. Odds are this Bitcoin will sell for less than market rate.

3) Every MtGox depositor/creditor worldwide will be needed to make some NOISE: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/just-been-goxxed-and-feeling-unheard-628191

If it is possible to revitalize MtGox, we can do it and create a market for lost coins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/proposal-for-mtgox-depositors-and-the-general-bitcoin-community-590160

Follow the FIAT, Follow the Bitcoin.

PM Me.

I don't have any basis to disagree with a thing you've said, yet I can give you a great many reasons why someone could have helped MK blow up Mt. Gox.

Think about how a magic trick works--your attention is momentarily distracted, and you focus in on the magician's hand waving, while unnoticed, he drops a bunny out of his other sleeve.

Everyone always concentrates on the 650,000 bitcoins that are supposedly missing, while almost nobody ever questions the $27,000,000 in bank deposits that have also disappeared. The 650,000 BTC either never existed in the first place, and were figments of Willy and Markus' machinations, or else are, for all practical matters, completely untraceable.

What do you want to bet someone at Mizuho Bank knows exactly where that $27 million went? I'm not saying they necessarily took it, but banks are in the business of knowing what happens to money--they'll know who has it, or where it went.

In any event, it's not like banks have never been known before to engage in asset stripping. They should at least be questioned. I refer you to the CCI investigation of Mizuho's European correspondent banks: http://www.mtgoxinvestigation.com/

The money trail should lead right to the guilty parties.

True. The whole Mt. Gox thing looks like a combination of ineptitude and crookedness, not some grand plan. Mt. Gox had a good moneymaker, and Karpeles blew it through a number of dumb moves, then tried to cheat out of the mess. (That's not unusual in business history. Enron, for example.) The Sunlot crowd just looks like opportunists. The recovery effort is getting nowhere because nobody competent is pushing forward in the courts in Japan.

Courts in common-law countries are purely reactive - they do nothing unless someone brings a case to them. You have to do all the work to move the case forward.

You certainly raise a very valid point. To succeed in the way it did, asset-stripping Mt. Gox would need to have many moving parts, and doubtless couldn't have been pulled off by merely one self-important poser, either acting alone, or else along with a couple of co-conspirators.

For starters, it would necessarily involve combined legal, financial, and regulatory strategies along with a plan to hack Mt. Gox using DDoS and transaction malleability attacks.

That would require technically and legally savvy people to make such a scheme work. These people couldn't even secure a cold wallet. 

I have previously written about the Mt. Gox implosion having been a coordinated asset-stripping scheme. This probably included a strategy for preempting any effective legal approach to recouping the "disappeared" funds. All forms of litigation have likely been anticipated.

One aspect, apparently completely overlooked in their planning by the schemers, was that Mt. Gox has become a PR disaster for the Japanese government. It has been trying to promote Japan as an attractive investment destination. It does not help them in the least to have tens of thousands of foreign depositors in Mt. Gox very confused and frustrated by the Tokyo bankruptcy proceedings. One could say the whole affair has not been in Japan's self-interest.

All of the above suggests a political approach could be far more effective than merely intensifying the legal action alone in the Tokyo courts. For example, I would suggest a delegation of active claimants, who have lost deposits in Mt. Gox, try to link up with Mineyuki Fukuda. He is a member of parliament who has taken a keen interest in bitcoin. I believe he is involved with a committee of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party to try and decide what to do about Mt. Gox, and in general, cryptocurrencies. Another key contact to make is Keiichi Hida, who organized the local group ‘Rising Bitcoin Japan‘, having campaigned for months to bring bitcoin out of the shadows and into mainstream attention. and appears to be politically very well connected,

Were some kind of consensus possible among business and government leaders to "save Mt. Gox", Japan could turn around what has been a huge public relations liability into a major asset for the country. In fact, should more of the "disappeared" bitcoins resurface, or turn out to have never been missing in the first place, it might not even cost the government that much to help out Mt. Gox depositors.

For over half a billion dollars? No way. The people who lost money in Mt. Gox need to get organized, and they need to be active in the Tokyo courts.

The trouble is that the people trying to organize them have either been ineffective ("mtgoxrecovery.com" and the solicitor in the UK) or involved with the people behind Mt. Gox (Sunlot).

Who knows with the Japanese government, but a best guess would be that they are aiming to take over large segments of the developing trade with both Myanmar and Bangladesh:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/140320/japan-foreign-minister-visit-bangladesh-myanmar
Bitcoin could be the key to it all, at least according to Yukio Noguchi. He's a a former Ministry of Finance bureaucrat and an adviser to the Graduate School of Finance, Accounting and Law at Waseda University. He probably knows of what he speaks.

I don't understand the relevance of that. Japan isn't Myanmar. It has excellent existing domestic electronic payments infrastructure: Fast, cheap or free bank transfers, near-universal POS digital money systems.

Nothing beneficial will come out of this. It's just better for everyone to take the loss.

I'm not sure how you know this, edmundedgar. Japan may have a lot more at stake with bitcoin than may otherwise seem:
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Economy/An-Asian-trade-revolution-in-the-making

I don't think we know that either way. It's not the bank's job to check everything their customers are doing and make sure they're not ripping anybody off. It may turn out that Mizuho were aware of something illegal or robbed Gox themselves, but I don't think there's any evidence of that in the public domain at the moment. Wait and see what the police and the trustee come up with, if anything.


Japanese courts are very deferential to authority. Your chances of producing anything except some legal proceedings at your own expense are not very high.


They're much more likely to conclude that this bitcoin whole thing is a huge PITA, brush the Gox business under the carpet and do what they can to make life difficult for other bitcoin-related businesses.

The asset stripping could never have been pulled off without at least tacit cooperation from Mt. Gox's bank, Mizuho, in regards to the "missing" $27 million in bank deposits.

The Japanese government is responsible for policing their banks and making sure that they don't engage in fraud. If the regulators slipped up this time, then they could be liable.

More importantly, it is very bad political juju in Japan for the authorities to permit any activities that further trash the country's attractiveness as a direct foreign investment destination. It wouldn't hurt to put a little pressure on the financial regulators in Japan to straighten out this mess, if a way can be found.

It's over.

Move along now.

Nothing to see here.

Gox did business in the US so you can get at them here. The problem is they don't have assets here do they?  You could try piercing the corporate veil but how are you going to serve karpeles if he never comes to the US again?

any new suits plz keep advised

Im in --


I really believed in SunLot though??   

 
think we should be in texas ? -- its gunna be tough going to Japan as if that will matter either

It means another delay.

Remember that the main bankruptucy is filed in The Land of The Rising Sun and what Texas does has no effect on things there at all.

There's a new announcement on mtgox.com that says there is a hearing to recognize the "amended recognition petition" for bankruptcy in Texas on June 17th.

Can anybody explain what that means?

Yeah.

Forget about it.

The company is located in Japan.