[NEW POOL & MINER] - BitcoinPool.com - Jump In! ~NO FEES~ :) - page 7.

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: geebus on March 30, 2011, 06:17:24 PM

Or if anyone has suggestions on alternatives (aside from score based, because I fucking refuse to do it) I'm happy to listen.

Why is score worse than sliding window of calculating shares? Originally I also wanted to implement sliding window, but found score much more effective and better from all points.

geebus

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

If everyone is concerned about loss of BTC due to pool hoppers, I will be more than happy to only count the shares from the last hour of the round when a block is found.

Or if anyone has suggestions on alternatives (aside from score based, because I fucking refuse to do it) I'm happy to listen.

geebus

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

Quote from: yrral on March 30, 2011, 05:48:01 PM

In your FAQ it says:

Quote

Q: How do YOU prevent fraud/cheating?

We only accept shares from the current block, and the previous block. With the network solving a block every 600 seconds on average, that would only allow a window of 20 minutes maximum to attempt any cheating against the pool. Likewise, with all statistics being available for the public to view, identifying cheaters would not be difficult.

Thus, what does that entry in the faq actually mean?

It means what it says. "We only accept shares from the current block, and previous block." However, since the FAQ was written, we've changed that to current block only.

There are other methods to cheat pools that don't involve pool hopping.

yrral

member

Activity: 79

Merit: 10

In your FAQ it says:

Quote

Q: How do YOU prevent fraud/cheating?

We only accept shares from the current block, and the previous block. With the network solving a block every 600 seconds on average, that would only allow a window of 20 minutes maximum to attempt any cheating against the pool. Likewise, with all statistics being available for the public to view, identifying cheaters would not be difficult.

Originally I thought that your FAQ said something along the lines of "If we hit, we only count solved shares that you sent for the 2 previous blocks that the network has solved before the block we hit and use that to calculate the share of bitcoins you get. (eg: a sliding window of the past 2 blocks the network solved)" - This would make some sense, as that would stop cheaters from being paid if they left the pool after N hours to mine on their own. Or is there another method of cheating that I'm not aware of?

But now that I look at the statistics, you take the proportion of shares solved since the last hit to determine how much is paid. So if someone does cheat, they still get paid for it. Thus, what does that entry in the faq actually mean?

Wouldn't, say a 1 hour sliding window solve the cheating problem and encourage people to continuously mine? (when we hit, sum up the total number of shares everyone solved in the past hour and have the 50*(proportion solved by a specific user) be their payout)

[Tycho]

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 04:41:35 PM

Quote from: bobR on March 30, 2011, 04:37:19 PM

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 04:24:11 PM

bobR u asking me or Xeon? and those suggestions are up to pool owner if they become a problem. I think people dropping out could be general computer problems too its really hard to maintain a gpu at 100% for a long period of time without something happening

Xeon on the rant
as for gpu up ... it works or it don't
gpu maintain suggests ???
your playing with it ??
or doing something unusual

It can overheat computer may restart network outage problem with the mining software alot of things can happen. get a pair of 5870s or 6970s throw em in a case and see if they just work 24/7 no problems at all

Actually yes, they are.
But the possibility to leave it any time is good.

FRanz33

newbie

Activity: 60

Merit: 0

Quote from: bobR on March 30, 2011, 04:37:19 PM

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 04:24:11 PM

bobR u asking me or Xeon? and those suggestions are up to pool owner if they become a problem. I think people dropping out could be general computer problems too its really hard to maintain a gpu at 100% for a long period of time without something happening

Xeon on the rant

as for gpu up ... it works or it don't
gpu maintain suggests Huh

your playing with it ??
or doing something unusual

It can overheat computer may restart network outage problem with the mining software alot of things can happen. get a pair of 5870s or 6970s throw em in a case and see if they just work 24/7 no problems at all

bobR

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 04:24:11 PM

bobR u asking me or Xeon? and those suggestions are up to pool owner if they become a problem. I think people dropping out could be general computer problems too its really hard to maintain a gpu at 100% for a long period of time without something happening

Xeon on the rant

as for gpu up ... it works or it don't
gpu maintain suggests Huh

your playing with it ??
or doing something unusual

FRanz33

newbie

Activity: 60

Merit: 0

bobR u asking me or Xeon? and those suggestions are up to pool owner if they become a problem. I think people dropping out could be general computer problems too its really hard to maintain a gpu at 100% for a long period of time without something happening

bobR

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: xenon481 on March 30, 2011, 02:26:01 PM

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 02:13:46 PM

[...]for given hash rate which fluctuates quite alot due to people joining in and dropping out for whatever reason. Ive seen us go from 14 to 8 then back to 14 in one day[...]

I'm not saying that it is absolutely happening, but that kind of movement (and the above mentioned people bailing out of a long round) is precisely indicative of the Pool-Hopping Exploit that is only a problem with Share based payout pools like this one. This exploit allows the exploiter to unfairly increase their expected payout to upwards of 130% of what they could expect if they were to just stay in one pool (or solo) the whole time. That extra 30% comes out of the pockets of all of the other non-cheating miners in the pool, thus reducing your overall payout to below theoretical expectations.

Score based payout pools were created specifically to get rid of this exploit.

So what's your educated rant as to why small miners do better here than in share based pools

I think most share based pools favor big crunchers

why not just stop "POOL HOPPING" by taking away your shares if you leave for more than a few minutes due to network problems
if your back in 5 it was a problem but an hr or more later .. well thats something else
and put a bounty like 25% on late enters ... if you not in the pool for the long haul you get penalized

xenon481

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 30, 2011, 02:13:46 PM

[...]for given hash rate which fluctuates quite alot due to people joining in and dropping out for whatever reason. Ive seen us go from 14 to 8 then back to 14 in one day[...]

I'm not saying that it is absolutely happening, but that kind of movement (and the above mentioned people bailing out of a long round) is precisely indicative of the Pool-Hopping Exploit that is only a problem with Share based payout pools like this one. This exploit allows the exploiter to unfairly increase their expected payout to upwards of 130% of what they could expect if they were to just stay in one pool (or solo) the whole time. That extra 30% comes out of the pockets of all of the other non-cheating miners in the pool, thus reducing your overall payout to below theoretical expectations.

Score based payout pools were created specifically to get rid of this exploit.

FRanz33

newbie

Activity: 60

Merit: 0

Quote from: nster on March 30, 2011, 01:29:03 AM

Quote from: geebus on March 29, 2011, 11:09:38 PM

Quote from: nster on March 29, 2011, 10:34:52 PM

people are jumping ship lol

The only reason they have to jump ship is that they can't do basic math. FRanz33 explained it fairly well.

Funny thing is that he has more shares then the average time it takes for him to get a 50 BTC block lol, how unlucky can this pool be if a miner is in this situation, and account for <20%? xD

I wouldnt call myself unlucky at all, just average. Honestly if you just take the last 10 blocks we found and average out the times its about 10hrs per block which puts us well within our performance range for given hash rate which fluctuates quite alot due to people joining in and dropping out for whatever reason. Ive seen us go from 14 to 8 then back to 14 in one day and however long we stay at a current hash rate affects our prediction of when we should hit. But i assure you it all evens out and adds up. a round may go long then have some really short ones to balance it out. Now i think its bad form to talk about what goes on in other pools that your not apart of but i can say in this pool the shares that i do work on i actually get paid my fair share for as if i mined it solo. And there's no fee and my very first share counts as much as my last share and i get to track everything in a nice neat website so it was a no brainer to mine here instead of solo vs other pools. The other pools have a large Hash rate so it looks attractive to new comers trying to make coins fast but splitting the shares with a larger number PLUS fees you make less, just add it up. We really just need some guys to stick it out for about a week and you'll see what im saying and why im here solely for this pool. And id like to apologize to Yrral. My post wasnt aimed at you. I know i led off commenting back at you but i was speaking in general, so please accept my apology.

geebus

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

Thats twice I think (s)he's declared a strong recommendation against this pool without any backing comment, reason, or clear motive for doing so.

I think it's safe to say it can be ignored and chalked up to someone being a dick for no reason.

nster

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: bombo999 on March 30, 2011, 05:19:55 AM

I strongly advise all users to avoid this pool!

why? Don't just come and troll here, without a reason on top of that

I strongly advise you go fuck yourself? I mean seriously

MasterBob

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Quote from: bombo999 on March 30, 2011, 05:19:55 AM

I strongly advise all users to avoid this pool!

You really need to back up statements like that.

Anyways, this happened to me as I was mining over night:

Code:

30/03/2011 01:19:41, 92abc5d4, accepted at 6% of getwork[1311]
30/03/2011 01:20:00, long poll: new block
30/03/2011 01:20:25, a3c610e5, accepted at 48% of getwork[1312]
30/03/2011 01:22:39, f3ada2cf, invalid or stale at 84% of getwork[1314]
30/03/2011 01:22:56, long poll: new block
30/03/2011 01:23:49, 5fb46dbc, accepted at 8% of getwork[1317]
30/03/2011 01:44:24, long poll: new block
Exception in thread Thread-2:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "threading.pyo", line 532, in __bootstrap_inner
  File "threading.pyo", line 484, in run
  File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 481, in miningThread
  File "BitcoinMiner.pyo", line 231, in hashrate
ZeroDivisionError: float division

Relevant system stats:
OS: Win 7 Pro 64 bit
GPU: XFX 1GB 4890
Drivers: AMD SDK 2.3
Drivers: Catalyst 11.3
Miner: Yours, latest.

bombo999

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

I strongly advise all users to avoid this pool!

nster

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: geebus on March 29, 2011, 11:09:38 PM

Quote from: nster on March 29, 2011, 10:34:52 PM

people are jumping ship lol

The only reason they have to jump ship is that they can't do basic math. FRanz33 explained it fairly well.

Funny thing is that he has more shares then the average time it takes for him to get a 50 BTC block lol, how unlucky can this pool be if a miner is in this situation, and account for <20%? xD

geebus

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

Quote from: nster on March 29, 2011, 10:34:52 PM

people are jumping ship lol

The only reason they have to jump ship is that they can't do basic math. FRanz33 explained it fairly well.

nster

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

people are jumping ship lol

yrral

member

Activity: 79

Merit: 10

Quote from: FRanz33 on March 29, 2011, 09:14:39 PM

We dont have 11ghash so thats wrong anyways. currently were at about 8.5 so redo the math.
Look ive been mining for about a month. went through everything did my due diligence before i got into this business. Luckily i run a computer repair business so i had the parts on hand to get up to about 2ghash on my own and was gonna mine solo but i did the math and realized it didnt matter if i mined solo or not its still the same pay out outside of the luck that plays a small part in this. when the pool was running 4ghs i got 50% of every blcok found. yeah it took 3 days but if i was mining solo i woulda got 100% and took 6 days the same payout when we got to 8ghs i got 25% but we found a block twice as fast u see my point? still the same payout. when the difficultly dropped and we hit like 8 in one day we got ahead on the curve. now were behind. That makes us average and still exact same payout. So it really doesnt make since to talk about how long the round is look at the numbers your hasrate and your payout it all adds up. Period. No were not hitting as fast as other pools but were not splitting 1000 ways either. Actually the negitivity stops this pool from growing larger and sends people else where. When i look at the last 10 or so blocks found those memebers arent in this round so the members dropping out and adding in makes it hard to estimate when were likely to hit. So lets jus do the math and be grateful its as easy to add things up as it is in this pool from what ive seen things can be alot more complicated..cheers Cool

*Goes back to mining*

Oh my computers are still mining. I understand each block being a hit is an independent event/etc. We were at 14 gh/s around this time last night for a bit, and most of the time this round has been > 11 gh/s so I've just gave it an average and called it 11 gh/s. Only recently this round did the global hash rate drop under 10.

Also, no negativity, just stating my observation with the unlikelihood of this happening. My miners are still going full-on for this pool

Distribution

hero member

Activity: 711

Merit: 500

Fight fire with photos.

Quote from: CryptikEnigma on March 29, 2011, 05:37:22 PM

Current Round: 01d 07h 55m 27s

This round is taking FOREVER lol

Yeah, I have 0 unconfirmed payments waiting because everything has already been confirmed and paid out.

Topic: [NEW POOL & MINER] - BitcoinPool.com - Jump In! ~NO FEES~ :) - page 7. (Read 101960 times)