Topic: New to BTC - Accidentally shifted the decimal on my transaction fee... (Read 1287 times)

Sure.

First you contact the person that has the ability to control which transactions a pool confirms.

Second you ask them very nicely if they will help you.

Third you negotiate a price for their service.

After that, depending on the agreement, either you pay them and then they add your transaction to the pool's next block, or they get your transaction confirmed and then you pay them.

Could someone explain more on how this happens and what is all involved?  Is there topics on here, I can not seem to find any, where I can read more about this and all of the other things involving bitcoin, that are not listed on the main bitcoin page.  Thank you in advance.

Yes that would help out alot if that option was available for all wallets.
I like working in mbtc instead as the casinos do. It makes it much more easier instead of working with all those zeroes.

That is why I set my electrum base unit to mBTC, very nice feature.

I did that once as well.
All those zeroes can make you misplace one.
I believe this happens more often than you would think they would.

The same way as before: nothing.

lol how do you feel about it now?

Unconfirmed Txs
Count
70,072
Size52,443,654 - 52.44 MB
24h Tx Rate
3.38 txs/s
Median block size of 2 weeks
998,110 Bytes
The current best transaction fees
0.001 BTC/KB

Absolute nonsense.

That's not how mining works.

Increasing the number of solo miners would reduce the amount of control that the biggest pools have, but it wouldn't change the number of transactions that can be processed AT ALL.

The easiest solution to this would have been having more miners to serve the increase in demand - but then solo mining is not as profitable anymore.

But I do not think it's best for existing miners to determine the size of the block... there should be a fixed cap on block size (not a decentralized size).

When the fees become so expensive that some people stop using bitcoin.  Then the number of transactions is reduced, and the blocks can catch up.  This process of building up large backlogs and people moving to other payment systems for smaller value transactions will repeat until an equilibrium between cost of transactions, number of transactions, and size of block is reached.

It's difficulty to predict just how expensive transactions will be at that equilibrium. There are some that feel it may result in VERY expensive transactions, such that the bitcoin blockchain will ONLY be used as a clearinghouse between large businesses and services. Everyone else would end up just using one of those services and their transactions would all be handled "off-chain". For example:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/permanently-keeping-the-1mb-anti-spam-restriction-is-a-great-idea-946236

I agree that it has nothing to do with liking to pay or not. it is annoying that there are times when there is an extreme competition going on! and i may not call it broken but we are getting to a point when 1 MB block size is no longer enough.


it is not just math you have to consider other things too.
the same thing happened last month with another 60K+ unconfirmed transactions and it was solved in 2 days. and smaller scale has happened before and they were also solved.

the creation rate is not only new transactions but also double spends and possible even some spam attacks.


lol, yeah this gets out of hand sometimes, i just hope like the times before it doesn't last longer than 2 days.
and eventually we see some real improvement for the block size issue once and for all.

I know. Why does it need to catch up?


What you're describing is called "price setting". In the modern world, price setting happens almost exclusively on the financial markets. Being a participant in a real market where real prices are set actually gives you alot of power, that's how some people became rich from Bitcoin.

But this is a real hard-knocks grown-up way to do business. Like I said, if you don't like the dynamics and pressures in this system, you don't have to use it.

it has nothing to do with no wanting to pay fees.. its the system is seriously broken..

right now we have

30,000 unconfirmed transactions..
and 3.38 or so a second being added to that..

a block is every 10 minutes.. and in that block we get about 1000-2000 transactions confirmed.. more or less but its roughly that.


do the math.. there is no catching up..

the only way to get a tx confirmed is to fight over fees... i add a higher fee, you add a higher fee, someone else adds a higher fee.. pretty soon the fee will be .1 btc / KB.. maybe even more?
at what point does it become too much??

also what about the last people who's fees were high enough but arent now.. because everyone else one upped them?

Fixed.

Sadly, it's a feature, not a "war". If anyone can figure out a different way of preventing spam in Bitcoin, go right ahead, no-one is stopping you. But this is what Satoshi came up with: fees.

I get it: people don't like paying. Well, don't. No-one is forcing you to do anything here, you have other options.

the issues with the fee war are.
the obvious ofcourse:
its not a first in first confirmed.
its no longer based on age of coin metrics (of how long ago the funds were recently used) meaning a rich guy can keep spending every~10minutes uninhibited)

but here are some other failures people are not noticing
1. at say 10sat/byte.. knowing average tx is 400byte. thats 4000sat/tx MINIMUM, on a no demand day (just under 3cents)

2. sites that suggest fees are operating in 10sat/byte intervals. meaning it psychologically makes people outbid each other in amounts of 4000sats (3cents rather than 'micropennies/individual sats). meaning if the average was 0.00012. people then pay 0.00016 instead of 0.00012001. pushing the price up by near 3cents per outbid rather than 0.001cent

3. fee's are now estimated over an average. rather then being instantly reacting to demand. meaning it hold the suggested price up for longer even with empty mempools

4. with the "average" metric instead of instantly dropping to suggest that free transactions are allowed in when mempool is empty. it is still biased towards pushing for fee's

basically
economics/price wars should never be used to sort out priority/spam.. CODE and filtering out bloated transactions or repeat spends too quickly, should be used

EG same as blockreward, not mature for X blocks to spend
EG no arbitrary data/messages, just lean tx code

Ey that's cool.
Didn't know about that.
However as I mostly use Electrum and have dynamic fees enabled I hope to never have to contact those guys.
But it's good to know that there is a possibility.

that should be enough and that is enough but that is for when there is no Fee wars™ happening.
right now miners are looking at mempool, they see transaction A with x fee/kb and transaction B with y fee/kb (y>x) and they choose TX B to include in the block they mine.


interesting idea actually!
I don't know if that is possible to implement, like having priority if you had the min fee.
and surely miners will never accept this because they benefit from Fee wars™


the drop-out you mention is because you are using other people to broadcast the transaction. if you have your own client you can broadcast it forever. and it is not a flaw it is a feature.


you don't check online, you instead check the previous blocks (transactions fees) and decide based on them. you check a website like 21.co one if you don't have a wallet with that feature.
besides some wallets already have this feature. if your wallet doesn't have it then use another one.

update: looky here https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.10.0#transaction-fee-changes

i really dont think this fee thing was thought out too well..
it is cool where one can double the fee and get confirmed faster.. i understand how it was supposed to be.. but there is also a minimum fee.. that should be enough..

there should be a fifo type thing, where after x number of blocks if you put the min fee or higher you get bumped to the top of the list..


the way that it is now, where the tx gets rejected then just disappears is a huge flaw in the system.. and its a big setback.. not to mention a way to be scammed.. if someone sends me bitcoin with 0 fee, im not going to accept it.. but i have to.. cause its already sent.. nobody is going to be like damn well i guess if it doesnt go through ill send you more.. or hey just sit here and wait for 3 days till it drops out so i know..


yes someone should know to check online to see if they need to double up in fees.. or whatever.. but its not something that should be researched before sending bitcoin.. plus most mobile wallets just add their own and dont let you change it..

this is because the mempool is currently about 30,000+ transactions (34986.251 KB) waiting to be included in a block and each block usually have about 2K-3K (998 KB) transaction included on average.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

and that is while people are creating new transactions every minute and mempool getting bigger or at least stay the same size since blocks are also mined.

2016 bitcoin Fee wars™

specially since you really dont know if you are sending enough fee unless you overkill it..

like i sent a tx with .0003 and 20 hours later nothing, i resent it with .0005 and bam 1 block confirmed.. :/