Topic: Newbie guide to ASIC vendors - page 5. (Read 7985 times)
Good thread, I just need this kind of information.
I thought this might be useful for newbies, to give them an idea of the track record / reputation of the various bitcoin asic vendors.
Consider this work in progress, its based on things I read, I dont have first hand experience with any of them, let alone all of them, but a single person's experience wouldnt be very representative anyway. Im very much open to changing/updating this based on feedback posted in this thread, particularly for vendors Im not too familiar with, but I will weigh your opinion/experience against your own reputation. Ie, opinions and stated experience of newbie posters or known trolls wont carry the same weight as those of trusted long time members.
This is not meant to be a scientific study, its my personal and therefore subjective interpretation of what I know about these companies. I dont have a bone in this fight, I hold no shares nor preorders for any of them, which should make me unbiased, but Im a human being with my own opinions so YMMV.
In alphabetical order:
AMT 2/5
Doesnt produce asics, but assembles miners based on bitfury and bitmine chips. Have shipped a handful (possibly as few as 2) Bitfury/technobit based 55nm miners so far. Currently 6+ weeks overdue on their bitfury orders and advertising highly implausible specs and delivery dates for their Bitmine based 28nm gear. Customer support is very poor, reportedly very rude and mostly non responsive. Have a very unfortunate (published) policy of giving 5% discounts and shipping priority to shill accounts posting in their favor, making any posted positive customer experience automatically suspect, particularly from new (often fake) accounts.
Avalon ?/5
Delivered on their promises with batch 1 of their first gen (110nm) devices, royally screwed their customer on batch 2. Their second generation 55nm asic appears to be shipping from stock, but is aimed more at system integrators than end users. Ive not heard enough recent feedback to make a judgement, but it appears they may be trying to salvage what little is left of their reputation. Specs for their 55nm chip suggest their design is less power efficient than current competitors, but it should also be pointed out their miners are quite price competitive atm.
Asicminer
Asicminer is a startup that was publicly funded with bitcoins, through the issuing of btc denominated shares that can be traded, similar to ActM/VMC, but with a proven trackrecord. Asicminer was a pioneer in bitcoin asics, along with Avalon. They mostly self mine and at one time they owned about 1/3 of the network. Currently they only have an almost obsolete chip. A new generation is supposed to be under development, but AFAIK, they are no longer selling directly to end users atm. Their products like the blockerupter and cube are still available from some third parties, as well as various boards based on their chip. Keep in mind these miners have very high power consumption for their hashrate and especially the USB sticks at todays difficulty are all but obsolete.
update: asicminer announced tapeout of their 45nm follow up, due in May. It has pretty incredible low power usage specs, lower than any 28nm chip.
BFL 1.5/5
Have delivered several PH of 65nm hardware, but are notorious for delivering extremely late and often underspec. Customer support is completely inadequate and incapable of handling the volume they receive . Their own forum contains countless reports of DOA's and machines breaking down after only a few weeks. In particular, dying/sparking/burning PSU's. TO be fair, BFL is one of the largest suppliers out there, its difficult to estimate what % of their sales these stories represent. Their 28nm product is already 2-3 months late and no silicon in sight so far.
Bitfury -/5
Have shipped several PH worth of 55nm asics, delivered pretty much on time but below spec. I have not read anything on customer service, so I will refrain from assessing that. Currently seems to focus on working with third party providers like Technobit so may not be relevant anyway. Performance and power efficiency of their 55nm product was revolutionary at launch and still is impressive today, rivaling that of many 28nm designs.
Bitmain 5/5
Relatively small and new vendor, doesnt do preorders, instead sells mostly through auctions, shipping quickly and from stock, specs are as promised, few reports of DOA or needs to RMA. Bitmain doesnt even have a website yet (sales happen through auctions on this forum), but customer support appears very good from what little Ive read about it. Like Bitfury, Bitmain "only" has a 55nm chip to date, but its also competitive in power efficiency with Bitfury and current 28nm alternatives.
Bitmine.ch 3/5
Havent shipped any 28nm miners yet, currently a few weeks overdue on their initial promises. Have shown working silicon and might be close to shipping. Too early to assess. (note: I believe bitmine used to ship avalon based gear? If so, some feedback would be welcome, Im not aware of their track record).
update: although more than a month late, full scale production is underway and shipping supposedly imminent.
Black Arrow 3/5
Have only shipped FPGA miners and recently Bitfury based gear. Their 28nm asic wasnt due until late february, but is now delayed until May 1st. Customer support track record seems fair, but recent feedback from customers experience with their bitfury based gear is welcome.
Cointerra 3/5
Despite very high expectations, CT are over 1 month late, and missed both power and performance targets by almost 20%. Supposedly just started shipping, Im not aware of any retail customers having received their gear yet, but should happen any moment.
Hash Fast 2/5
Still havent delivered anything yet in meaningful quantities. Currently >2 months overdue on their inititial shipping promise and causing a lot of controversy surrounding their MPP and refund policy. Facing litigation. Have shown working silicon, its assumed / hoped they will start shipping very soon, but confidence is this company is in free fall.
KnC 4/5
Have shipped several PH worth of 28nm miners and are the only company so far to have done that. Delivered (way) over spec and only marginally late on their first batch. High number of reports of defects and RMA's, especially on the first batch, but decent customer service. Currently no longer selling 28nm miners, only preorders for Neptune, a 20nm product with vague specs and vague delivery date (Q1/Q2). Optimists expect KnC to again vastly over deliver on their specs and achieve that on the early end of their shipping estimate, pessimists (like me) fear that while the specs are probably indeed understated, 20nm products are not likely to appear before summer. Based on their past achievement, which also exceeded my expectations, I wont deduct points for that though.
edit: One point that was raised by other members, and which is quite valid, is that KnC really dropped the ball on their hosting service. Prospective customers may want to think twice before trusting them with hosting.
Technobit 3/5
Doesnt produce asics, but produces and sells boards based on 3rd party ASICs like Avalon and Bitfury. Have shipped a lot of hardware already, but despite claims of ample stock, currently seem to take ~1 month for shipping. Also lots of complaints about their parcel service (speedy/DPD). Customer support seems to be reasonable though, even if stretched a bit thin.
Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC/AMC) ?/5
VMC is developing and selling preorders for 28nm structured asics, but havent shipped anything yet and havent really shown anything yet. Not much is known of their schedule and even less of the current project status, other than that its being delayed. Despite a public and verifiable partnership with eASIC, a well known semiconductor company with unquestionable expertise, and a business approach that in theory should enable fast time to market at relatively low risk, VMC is cloaked in so much secrecy that serious questions can be asked about their credibility.
edit: ActM announced a change in plans, their 28nm structured asic appears DOA, and instead a 55nm custom asic is promised. Probably too late to really matter, unless its one really efficient design.
Consider this work in progress, its based on things I read, I dont have first hand experience with any of them, let alone all of them, but a single person's experience wouldnt be very representative anyway. Im very much open to changing/updating this based on feedback posted in this thread, particularly for vendors Im not too familiar with, but I will weigh your opinion/experience against your own reputation. Ie, opinions and stated experience of newbie posters or known trolls wont carry the same weight as those of trusted long time members.
This is not meant to be a scientific study, its my personal and therefore subjective interpretation of what I know about these companies. I dont have a bone in this fight, I hold no shares nor preorders for any of them, which should make me unbiased, but Im a human being with my own opinions so YMMV.
In alphabetical order:
AMT 2/5
Doesnt produce asics, but assembles miners based on bitfury and bitmine chips. Have shipped a handful (possibly as few as 2) Bitfury/technobit based 55nm miners so far. Currently 6+ weeks overdue on their bitfury orders and advertising highly implausible specs and delivery dates for their Bitmine based 28nm gear. Customer support is very poor, reportedly very rude and mostly non responsive. Have a very unfortunate (published) policy of giving 5% discounts and shipping priority to shill accounts posting in their favor, making any posted positive customer experience automatically suspect, particularly from new (often fake) accounts.
Avalon ?/5
Delivered on their promises with batch 1 of their first gen (110nm) devices, royally screwed their customer on batch 2. Their second generation 55nm asic appears to be shipping from stock, but is aimed more at system integrators than end users. Ive not heard enough recent feedback to make a judgement, but it appears they may be trying to salvage what little is left of their reputation. Specs for their 55nm chip suggest their design is less power efficient than current competitors, but it should also be pointed out their miners are quite price competitive atm.
Asicminer
Asicminer is a startup that was publicly funded with bitcoins, through the issuing of btc denominated shares that can be traded, similar to ActM/VMC, but with a proven trackrecord. Asicminer was a pioneer in bitcoin asics, along with Avalon. They mostly self mine and at one time they owned about 1/3 of the network. Currently they only have an almost obsolete chip. A new generation is supposed to be under development, but AFAIK, they are no longer selling directly to end users atm. Their products like the blockerupter and cube are still available from some third parties, as well as various boards based on their chip. Keep in mind these miners have very high power consumption for their hashrate and especially the USB sticks at todays difficulty are all but obsolete.
update: asicminer announced tapeout of their 45nm follow up, due in May. It has pretty incredible low power usage specs, lower than any 28nm chip.
BFL 1.5/5
Have delivered several PH of 65nm hardware, but are notorious for delivering extremely late and often underspec. Customer support is completely inadequate and incapable of handling the volume they receive . Their own forum contains countless reports of DOA's and machines breaking down after only a few weeks. In particular, dying/sparking/burning PSU's. TO be fair, BFL is one of the largest suppliers out there, its difficult to estimate what % of their sales these stories represent. Their 28nm product is already 2-3 months late and no silicon in sight so far.
Bitfury -/5
Have shipped several PH worth of 55nm asics, delivered pretty much on time but below spec. I have not read anything on customer service, so I will refrain from assessing that. Currently seems to focus on working with third party providers like Technobit so may not be relevant anyway. Performance and power efficiency of their 55nm product was revolutionary at launch and still is impressive today, rivaling that of many 28nm designs.
Bitmain 5/5
Relatively small and new vendor, doesnt do preorders, instead sells mostly through auctions, shipping quickly and from stock, specs are as promised, few reports of DOA or needs to RMA. Bitmain doesnt even have a website yet (sales happen through auctions on this forum), but customer support appears very good from what little Ive read about it. Like Bitfury, Bitmain "only" has a 55nm chip to date, but its also competitive in power efficiency with Bitfury and current 28nm alternatives.
Bitmine.ch 3/5
Havent shipped any 28nm miners yet, currently a few weeks overdue on their initial promises. Have shown working silicon and might be close to shipping. Too early to assess. (note: I believe bitmine used to ship avalon based gear? If so, some feedback would be welcome, Im not aware of their track record).
update: although more than a month late, full scale production is underway and shipping supposedly imminent.
Black Arrow 3/5
Have only shipped FPGA miners and recently Bitfury based gear. Their 28nm asic wasnt due until late february, but is now delayed until May 1st. Customer support track record seems fair, but recent feedback from customers experience with their bitfury based gear is welcome.
Cointerra 3/5
Despite very high expectations, CT are over 1 month late, and missed both power and performance targets by almost 20%. Supposedly just started shipping, Im not aware of any retail customers having received their gear yet, but should happen any moment.
Hash Fast 2/5
Still havent delivered anything yet in meaningful quantities. Currently >2 months overdue on their inititial shipping promise and causing a lot of controversy surrounding their MPP and refund policy. Facing litigation. Have shown working silicon, its assumed / hoped they will start shipping very soon, but confidence is this company is in free fall.
KnC 4/5
Have shipped several PH worth of 28nm miners and are the only company so far to have done that. Delivered (way) over spec and only marginally late on their first batch. High number of reports of defects and RMA's, especially on the first batch, but decent customer service. Currently no longer selling 28nm miners, only preorders for Neptune, a 20nm product with vague specs and vague delivery date (Q1/Q2). Optimists expect KnC to again vastly over deliver on their specs and achieve that on the early end of their shipping estimate, pessimists (like me) fear that while the specs are probably indeed understated, 20nm products are not likely to appear before summer. Based on their past achievement, which also exceeded my expectations, I wont deduct points for that though.
edit: One point that was raised by other members, and which is quite valid, is that KnC really dropped the ball on their hosting service. Prospective customers may want to think twice before trusting them with hosting.
Technobit 3/5
Doesnt produce asics, but produces and sells boards based on 3rd party ASICs like Avalon and Bitfury. Have shipped a lot of hardware already, but despite claims of ample stock, currently seem to take ~1 month for shipping. Also lots of complaints about their parcel service (speedy/DPD). Customer support seems to be reasonable though, even if stretched a bit thin.
Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC/AMC) ?/5
VMC is developing and selling preorders for 28nm structured asics, but havent shipped anything yet and havent really shown anything yet. Not much is known of their schedule and even less of the current project status, other than that its being delayed. Despite a public and verifiable partnership with eASIC, a well known semiconductor company with unquestionable expertise, and a business approach that in theory should enable fast time to market at relatively low risk, VMC is cloaked in so much secrecy that serious questions can be asked about their credibility.
edit: ActM announced a change in plans, their 28nm structured asic appears DOA, and instead a 55nm custom asic is promised. Probably too late to really matter, unless its one really efficient design.
Jump to: