If you were the person that was being ignored, you should know how that feels.
And, some newbies provide the forum entertainment by posting blatant scam anyways
Topic: newbie jail - page 2. (Read 2623 times)
I don't think newbies should be ignored. Just because a person is a hero right now, doesn't mean that they haven't gone through the newbie stage.
If you were the person that was being ignored, you should know how that feels.
And, some newbies provide the forum entertainment by posting blatant scam anyways
If you were the person that was being ignored, you should know how that feels.
And, some newbies provide the forum entertainment by posting blatant scam anyways
Here: "The right to discuss if for everyone". You are claiming that everyone has right to use this forum. Correct? But "right to do X" means that if you want to do X and Y is standing on your way, this Y should be punished. Correct? Specifically, "everybody has right to write on bitcointalk" means that if owner of bitcointalk, i.e. Theymos would ban somebody from his forum, he should be punished by authorities. Probably, you just never thought that positive rights (i.e. rights that somebody have to pay for) are not compatible with private property rights, but are compatible with socialism & communism. That's why I've suggested that you don't realize how totalitarian are your views.
Congratulations for the worst misinterpretation that I've ever seen on a forum. I'm feeling very stupid now, because I couldn't realize how talking about the openness nature of a forum would let someone to a conclusion about totalitarianism.
I talked about rights, not unlimited rights. Also with rights you have some obligations, every forum on the internet has its own rules.
So you are ignoring some people! Isn't it arrogant? What name would Arturo Frondizi call you for doing it?
Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.You need to troll very hard to I do this. Like someone who created a topic claiming Satoshi was moving his coins and providing a Coindesk's fake link.
Currently I have just 5 ignored accounts, and they are:
2 Hero Members
1 Senior
1 Full
1 Junior
So, the problem definitely isn't newbies.
Quote
The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.
More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime. You are defending some type of practice, a hostile practice, by the way.
Quote
Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?
That's right. You are.Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me
, or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.
Going to a forum is voluntary too. What is clear to me is if you don't want a forum with newbies, you don't want a forum at all. You would stay better at a private mail list or something like that. Also, you are fogetting everybody here was a newbie one day. So, this type of hostility isn't good, specially if you are interested in promoting Bitcoin.
Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.
It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?
Exactly, we may get some shit posting, but if people aren;t afraid or annoyed they cna come back and become a more active member of the community. But if they are jailed, well, they Just won't like it. It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?
Clearly we need some option to keep people happy. I'm def for an option to select which rank posts you want to see. It'll keep the reading a bit filled with holes but I'm sure the senior ranked folks can read between the blocked posts, no?
You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".
Really? Where did I say this?That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.
Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes. Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.Quote
The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.
More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime. Quote
Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?
That's right. You are.Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me
, or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.
You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".
Really? Where did I say this?
That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.
Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes.
That you have right to demand apologies for thought-crimes. It's the likes of you who chaised their professors for being "anti-social and arrogant" during the Cultural Revolution.
The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored. And yes, you should apologize for this because you are saying this forum should become a "circle of commons", which is a shame.
It's a shame you don't realize how totalitarian is your mindset.
Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post iand to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?
This quote is ideal for you:
Quote
«Solamente los débiles eluden la confrontación con hombres que no piensan como ellos. Ninguno de los estadistas de las grandes naciones occidentales rehúsan hablar con los dirigentes de los países comunistas. Nosotros no queríamos ser jamás gobernantes de un pueblo que tiene miedo de confrontar sus ideas con otras ideas».
Translating:
Only the debils elude the confrontation with men who don't think like them. None of the statesmen of the big occidental nations refuse to talk with the chairpersons of communist countries. We never wouldn't want to be rulers of a people who has fear of confronting their ideas with other ideas.
Arturo Frondizi (President of Argentina between 1958-1962)
Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.
Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.
Actually, developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create such lists. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.
Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.
Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.
Actually, a developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create them. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.
EDIT: grammar.
This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts?
This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone. Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.
Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.
The damage is done. The newbie troll armies have all but destroyed any meaningful discussions by flooding the forum with repetitive and worn out topics. In fact, the forum should just close and be archived. At least Reddit doesn't allow duplicate posts. While old posts can sometimes become topical again, necro-posting with valueless comments isn't possible on Reddit. The Libertarians have proven how much damage they can do to the Commons by allowing free unrestricted access.
I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.
i agree with you. We are here to help someone who doesnt know bitcoin and wants to learn. we are here to spread bitcoin brotherhood to all of the world. but newbie jail doesnt help it. Newbie's questions can look silly for the old members. But we should be patient and tolerant. Coz they know nothing. Newbies are not a spam. They are just fresh and dont know anything.
I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.
This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts?
This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone. Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.
Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.
Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.
This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts?
This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone. Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.
Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
No, please. I think this will scare away Newbies not to come. Many people come to ask their doubts, questions, to announce their service etc... This isn't a good idea and even because of the time limit, people still complain. Newbie jail isn't good as time limit. So the current time limit is enough, IMHO.
I agree with SaltySpitoon!
-MZ
I agree with SaltySpitoon!
-MZ
This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
I often think the same thing, but sometimes i get smacked in the face with statements from certain newbie members that are obviously very intelligent ones,
so it seams rather harsh to judge every newbie the same way, maybe thats why the jail is removed in the first place ?
Indeed while I also sometimes am annoyed by the newbie posts that are stoopid. I find quite often that some dev who makes some exciting new software often launches a site and then creates a newbie account here to discuss how people are using it. My point is that many folks hanging around on the sidelines should be able to create an account and speak up whenever they please.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
Do you know that account trade is allowed and any newbie can buy a senior+ account, right?
Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.
It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?
It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?
yes please lock them all
This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
No no, not status-based filtering, well anyways I wouldn't use it. I don't ignore anyone, doesn't heart to listen to everyone, even if they are shills, because you know what other people are talking about them. Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".
So take that into account when setting up the rules. People want this. It's 14 to 2 at this point (the no activity troll doesn't count).
The removal of newbie jail was something that had been planned for a long time before it happened. There are a multitude of reasons that it wont be coming back. There is no way around it, newbie jail is a deturrent for people who aren't its intended purpose. Spammers/botters etc don't care about newbie jail in the slightest. Its taxing on the staff, it promotes spam rather than preventing it, and it inhibits legitimate membership. If you just read an article about Bitcoin, are now interested in learning more, and come here for some info; if the forum's restrictions turn you away thats one less person to enter the Bitcoin community, to be active in real conversation, and to be a member of what it is thats built here.
All of that said, there seems to be a common misconception that newbie jail does something positive. I have yet to find a single positive thing that newbie jail does for us, they are all negatives, why reinstate it?
Jump to: