Topic: Next generation 14nm mining grid - page 3. (Read 7651 times)

Can we get an estimate on total hashrate in an optimum situation in your mind? How much electricity would this farm require vs competitors? Trying to get a better understanding of the plan.

Very gracious. I'll put your offer to the shareholders.

Thanks. Never had to use the ignore button on a forum before, but hey.

I'm all for healthy skepticism, not nearly enough of it in this world. Could live without the paranoia and insults though. Two minutes on Google and it's completely obvious we're legit. Our PC app has been out for two years!

Cheers,
Mark

Hmm, now I see it all. Quite brilliant.

I offer you £24.99 a fiver for 51% equity.

You're not understanding the concept.

There are 2 billion PCs and another 1 billion smartphones already out there. Nobody has to buy anything. Even the app is a free download.

Not enough people care about computing for science projects - far more care about computing for the chance to win massive cash prizes and constant charity fundraising.

As for the phone mining - just like the PC computing, it can only earn pennies per device. Not enough to make it worth doing UNLESS there's some other motivation.

Like being in a series of massive prize draws and constantly raising money for those nine charities, for example.

Hundreds of millions of people buy lottery tickets every week, by the way. Not sure what their state of mind has to do with it.

Hi there.

To counterbalance the healthy skepticism of some and frankly rude behaviour of others, I'd like to say that I find your idea very interesting. Unlike others, I can see what you are aiming to achieve here and think it could really work.

I'm also pleased to see a British company taking steps towards innovation in the bitcoin world. I don't have  early enough money to take part in this, but I wish you the best of luck. If you succeed, it can only be good for bitcoin as a whole.

Never-ending random payouts, constantly raising money for charity, free to download – what's not to like?
Even if the user doesn't win a prize, they're always computing for good

-quoted from your pitch

no one in their right mind buys a lottery ticket

you already said no one cares about computing for good, well maybe several thousand yip-de-do

don't be obtuse. you can't persuade enough people to buy a high end phone and join your club

anyone with a good phone would mine for themselves, then choose which charity to donate to

if they could mine with a phone

I don't understand the question, sorry.

If you mean 'how much would we make with a billion users' - it would be huge, of course.
If you mean 'how much would we make if nobody cares to join up' - it would be zero. But we have several thousand users already.

We're specifically NOT seeking bitcoin miners - or even techie users.

We're seeking the non-technical general public who don't give two hoots about mining, protein-folding, web-crawling, molecular modelling, climate simulations, CFD, rendering, etc - and persuading them to compute for it anyway. They make up the vast majority of device owners.

How to harness it? ● Offer to buy the surplus compute power ● ● ● Been tried, doesn't work for home users – a few pennies per day doesn't impress anyone PC power only valuable en masse, not individually Ask for volunteered resources ● Only works for popular science projects ● Growth is flat; all the science fans are taken ● New projects dare not compete for volunteers

-quoted from your pitch

so please eli5.

home users don't care for a few pennies a day

if you add up a billion of them not caring, this makes you how much?

edit~: you'll lose less money for investors than i first thought, because Samsung et al. won't sell a billion high end phones with 'asics' in for a while yet

In that article:

"Columbia’s Sethumadhavan says custom ASICs may soon face a challenge from chips for mobile devices with circuits dedicated to performing encryption operations. These chips, expected next year, will probably be designed to a standard higher than the miners can reach and could be used to build powerful mining rigs without ASICs."

We already have VC angel financing, and we're getting more. The reason for posting our pitch deck here was mentioned in the first line of the OP: this could become a significant BTC grid.

Apologies if it seemed vague, I can't put forward every last detail in a forum post - hence the link to our pitch deck and the invitation to email for further info. Which five people have already done.

You are quite correct about the US and accredited investors, I'll amend the OP to reflect that.

OP are you sure you understand the motivations of bitcoin miners?  Hint: it's not charity.

I was planning on going to sleep but had to step in here. My personal opinion is that this is either a scam or a VERY misguided individual/group of people.

What SHA-256 chips are you talking about? And why are you referring to them as chips? There is little sense in having a separate dedicated IC in something as compact as a phone.

The article has no mention of SHA-256 chips in cellphones. Why would a cellphone even need an SHA-256 dedicated IC when they already usually have that capability built in to the same die the main processor is on?

Are you saying the ic will be more efficient than current miners? Where are you getting such information from? TSMC? Qualcom? If so, you are horrifically violating NDA.

So you have an app already up and running as a demo? Give some specifics, how does android support such functionality?

Your language is very vague and unprofessional. Your claims are extreme. Your minimum buyin is 250,000 friggen grand. Why on earth are you doing this on a bitcoin forum? Go find some proper venture capital angels. Keep in mind that to have someone invest in you from the USA they need to be an accredited investor.

Because bitcoiners don't understand finance?

Anyway, some interesting thought.  I don't know if I have enough info/background to make numerical estimates, but I imagine this is what their per-customer margin looks like:

bitcoin dust
less: marginal cost of mining servers/generic work servers
less: marginal cost of advertising (acquiring customers)
less: marginal cost of promotions (avg lottery payout)

The dust revenue is just so, so low do you think that you'll be bumping against problems with just the marginal cost of having a constant connection to a server and getting new shares?  The cost of one network connection to one mining pool has got to be incredibly tiny but so is the revenue you're making from dust.  Bitcoin mining is both your most reliable source of income but also your most server expense-hungry and concurrent network connection-intensive choice.

Advertising: really tricky as you're still being trapped under the upper bound of your dust revenue.  How do you keep your average cost of acquiring a customer that low?  I guess raising tons of investor money in a formal investment series gives you a pass here for now.

Finally, I don't think non-bitcoin sources are going to be moneymakers for these guys.  People who need scientific computing aren't known for their deep pockets - they are funded by grants.  The web scraping thing makes it sound like you've already got a customer which is cool, but I don't see the sustainability for that business model (and I don't know who would pay for it in the first place).  People scrape the web so they can store, index it and query it at a later time.  Your army of smartphones is only going to give you a small bandwidth saving compared to downloading the pages yourself.  Does the cost of outsourcing it to a 3rd party with an elaborate system to manage its workers (aka higher per-scraper cost) going to work out financially?

You have not left or answered any of my questions.  Red text above.  Go.

Why is bitcoin suddenly attracting the lowest rang of scammers, the "it makes you money while saving kittens" bottom feeders? 
WTF is wrong with us?

The default is only activate on charging and only use wifi. It also waits until the battery is charged first.

It won't be mining on the CPU, only on the dedicated silicon. Difference in power usage will be an order of magnitude - perhaps 0.5W as opposed to 5W+ if using the CPU full-tilt.

It has to be gentle, you are quite right.

Not sure if it's part of them. All I know is that it's additional custom silicon, specifically for SHA-256, for hardware encryption/decryption. Not that much different from any other common task that ends up being moved off the main CPU - graphics being the obvious example.

They won't be able to earn much per cellphone (the SHA-256 chip will only pull a fraction of a watt), certainly not enough for individuals to bother running a miner. But they will be more energy-efficient than any ASIC, because mobile chips are always the latest process, and en masse they'll be able to earn quite a bit.

And that's where the CE model comes in: we make it a prize draw, but also give half the profits to our partner charities - so it's a worthwhile exercise even for those who don't win. Result is a (virtually) free, totally automated, never-ending charity fundraiser and series of massive prize draws. All from idle computing power.

The overwhelming obstacle here is electrical consumption. I imagine that bitcoin mining on a mobile device will be incredibly taxing on the battery of said device, rendering such an activity very hard to perform when the mobile is not docked to a charging station. If this is the case, then the mobile will be at best a USB miner that you can plug in for 8 hours at night when you sleep.

Edit: Also, it would not be unfair to assume such laborous usage of your mobile's battery will lower its life expectancy in the long run

Consider us gone away.